AnimeSuki Forums

**Solace** · 2011-06-28, 12:41

This conversation makes me want to rewatch Ghost in the Shell. All of them.

erneiz_hyde · 2011-06-28, 13:06

I know, right?

Anyway, even if what I said was fantasy, the essence is that i don't think human as is has a chance in conquering the stars beyond our own. We need to evolve further or use genetic and cybernetic engineering to the maximum limits so we can overcome the damages of prolonged exposure in space do to us.

Hooves · 2011-06-28, 13:06

I know how you feel Solace

All this talk about the future, strangely enough it makes me want to watch Gundam 00 o.o?

@erneiz_hyde: By that do you mean the damage staying in space too long can do to our bodies that astronauts have to exercise to endure for?

Sides · 2011-06-28, 13:32

I wonder if it is actually possible, with current technology, to keep ones brain alive and active outside a biological body. I mean how fun would it be to have a synthetic body, where you can switch part when you like. Call for Mega Blaster arm cannon.

erneiz_hyde · 2011-06-28, 13:45

@hooves: there's more trouble than that. Radiation exposure, zero gravity environments, god-knows-what-else-exposures. And the most important thing: it takes hundreds of generations of our current lifetime for one of the shortest voyages. Impact on emotional health is also to be accounted for.

synaesthetic · 2011-06-28, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

@hooves: there's more trouble than that. Radiation exposure, zero gravity environments, god-knows-what-else-exposures. And the most important thing: it takes hundreds of generations of our current lifetime for one of the shortest voyages. Impact on emotional health is also to be accounted for.

These problems are some of the main reasons we're not doing it already, but they'll be solved in time. I don't doubt that at all, and I also do not believe that we should hold off just because some people think we're not mature enough to leave Earth.

Leaving this planet will solve so many problems, you don't even understand how many...

erneiz_hyde · 2011-06-28, 15:08

Btw after some light research in the internet in some seemingly trustworthy science-y sites(not the wikipedia), I see science have showed evidence that our mind is an activity of the brain. But, scientists are still reluctant to declare that our mind and body are one and the same, because they have also found apparent evidence on the contrary (mind seemingly existent with no apparent brain-activities). The general consensus though, that brain activities does generate a phenomenon we called mind, it's just that scientists expect there might be more to it.

Also, if the mind is an activity of the brain, it might actually be easier to make a simulation of a mind using yet-to-be discovered powerful enough computers and advanced enough simulators, taking into consideration that the brain is essentially a very highly advanced computer.

synaesthetic · 2011-06-28, 15:24

Just try not to make Skynet and we'll be good.

Tempester · 2011-06-28, 15:25

While I think it is important to discuss plans for the far future of humanity, one thing that we in our power can do in the near future is endorse and improve education, especially in the field of science. Sure, our plans for near-immortality, colonization of Mars, antimatter propulsion, and (gosh forbid) Dyson spheres are grand and inspiring, but how will those plans become reality if the generations after us are less interested in science than we are? I can guarantee that an increased interest in science among children and youth will make the future bright. And it's not just the next generations; we ourselves should pick up that physics textbook sitting on the shelf and learn more. We may not become physicians, but with knowledge we can help the advancement of technology and humanity in several ways.

At this moment of history, the library is a tool with importance rivaling the rocket.

Ithekro · 2011-06-28, 15:30

The "transporter" question is one that is based on if the original is destroyed and a copy is made. What if it isn't a copy? Matter to energy and back to matter. Matter and energy cannot be destroyed, just converted. If the matter of a human is coverted to energy and then converted back into the same form as a human...is it the same human? You didn't destroy the matter or energy that was that human, you coverted it and moved it...but it is still the same matter and energy. In order to do so you have to break a few laws of physics I imagine, but also manage to get a detailed scan of every sub-atomic particle in the human body, and perhaps even beyond that. The matter is put back exactly as it was when it was converted to energy. So how is is not the same as it was before? You have not copied anything since you are not creating matter or energy, nor are you taking other matter or energy to make a new form.

The question of what is a soul? Spirituality is based on faith. If the person being transported has faith that he's soul will go through and he still believes that on the other side, than his soul was also transported...because of his faith. If a soul turns out to be a actual physical or energy based item...than it too can be transported. There is no real case for there to be anything else. Either it is faith or it is real. The only way it can be real and not transported is if it is part of another dimension...at which point it wouldn't be limited by our ideals of spacetime anyway and would go to where it is needed...thus there still isn't a problem with the "transporter", as the soul will go to where its host is reguardless of distance and time.

synaesthetic · 2011-06-28, 15:38

The transporter idea of converting matter to energy and transmitting it, then converting it back is still pretty worthless for traveling great distances since you're still limited by light speed...

It's not the same matter, either. It's taking matter, converting it into energy, then rebuilding similar matter from the same energy. Would be good for high-speed signaling applications (but not FTL communications, since it's still limited to c), not so good for moving people or complex materials.

Ithekro · 2011-06-28, 15:45

Speed of light travel via a beam gets you to the Moon in about one second without the need to break Earth's gravity in an expensive spacecraft.

May not be good for anything beyond a light-minute's reach, but it would be handy to avoid the need to expend fuel to get out of a planet's gravity. Since one major complaint is the expense of getting anything off the surface...that seems to make sense.

erneiz_hyde · 2011-06-28, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The question of what is a soul? Spirituality is based on faith. If the person being transported has faith that he's soul will go through and he still believes that on the other side, than his soul was also transported...because of his faith. If a soul turns out to be a actual physical or energy based item...than it too can be transported. There is no real case for there to be anything else. Either it is faith or it is real. The only way it can be real and not transported is if it is part of another dimension...at which point it wouldn't be limited by our ideals of spacetime anyway and would go to where it is needed...thus there still isn't a problem with the "transporter", as the soul will go to where its host is reguardless of distance and time.

I'm surprised. I have similar understanding. The more scientific approach to a "soul" in faith is that there is a higher dimension of our self and this higher dimension self is projected to our physical body. This was regarded as super-natural a few years back, but Physics already predicted the possible existence of higher planes of existence and dimensions outside of what we can perceive. I think this notion is very possible.

Also, it should still be relevant to the thread's title (and to a certain anime currently airing), but what do you guys think about the possibilities of time travel? Since making insanely long travel time of a space voyage to a saner time frame is essentially one anyways.

synaesthetic · 2011-06-28, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Speed of light travel via a beam gets you to the Moon in about one second without the need to break Earth's gravity in an expensive spacecraft.

Yeah, but we can already send transmissions to the moon at lightspeed. Our communications already travel at c. In order to expand beyond our own star system, we need to be able to both communicate and travel [significantly] faster than c.

Ithekro · 2011-06-28, 15:56

Near light speed travel could be viewed as time travel, but only to those on the vessel travelling at those speeds. The vessel would still take years to get to the destination, but very little time will have passed for those on the vessel.

FTL drives would be time travel in some ways as they can basically make it to a place faster than spacetime would normally allow...but it only works in a forward direction. You couldn't use the drive to go backwards in time relative to where you started. At least probably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Yeah, but we can already send transmissions to the moon at lightspeed. Our communications already travel at c. In order to expand beyond our own star system, we need to be able to both communicate and travel [significantly] faster than c.

You are thinking only in terms of communications. I'm thinking in terms of actually mass and products. FTL drives would be fine, but they also could be dangerous to use in that short a distance. You don't use light speed to move a ship for short distances.

jamieS · 2011-06-28, 16:01

You can't travel FTL. Full stop. It is impossible.
If you could find a way to travel from A to B without travelling through the space between A and B, you would appear to travel faster than light, but you still wouldn't be because you didn't go as far as you appeared to travel.
That is my understanding anyway, feel free to correct me.

Ithekro · 2011-06-28, 16:07

Almost all forms of fictional FTL drives use some forms of way to either skip sections of space via wormholes, dimentional jumps, or placing the vessel fully or partly in another dimention so that they appear to be moving at faster than light, but the vessel itself actually is not, it is just moving in another smaller dimention or something along those lines.

synaesthetic · 2011-06-28, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamieS

You can't travel FTL. Full stop. It is impossible.
If you could find a way to travel from A to B without travelling through the space between A and B, you would appear to travel faster than light, but you still wouldn't be because you didn't go as far as you appeared to travel.
That is my understanding anyway, feel free to correct me.

This is what most people mean when they say "FTL" travel. It's very unlikely that we would ever be able to accelerate an object with mass even to c, much less beyond c, since infinite energy is required to accelerate an object to lightspeed. I won't say impossible, because you can't prove a negative. But I will say highly improbable.

When most people think "FTL" travel in science fiction, it's more along the lines of wormholes, jumping from point A to point B by taking a shortcut through spacetime.

Asuras · 2011-06-28, 20:10

The least we can get is close to the speed of light. Hell, maybe something along the lines of the mass effect is possible.

I remember hearing somewhere on a science channel of a hypothesized particle or force that literally gives 'stuff' its mass, turning it into matter. If we could somehow warp this field to negate and objects mass, we can accelerate it faster than light, yes?

All wishy-washy geeky stuff of course.

synaesthetic · 2011-06-28, 20:59

Well, no. Light has no mass, so why isn't it going faster than 300,000 km/s?

Wormholes or wormhole-like things are a much better handwave, because they can go from Point A to Point B instantaneously. Even if we could travel faster than light, it'd have to be a lot faster than light in order to facilitate transport around the galaxy. Not to mention you'd have time dilation to deal with...

2011-06-28, 12:41	Link #41
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	This conversation makes me want to rewatch Ghost in the Shell. All of them. __________________

2011-06-28, 13:06	Link #42
erneiz_hyde 18782+18782=37564 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: InterWebs	I know, right? Anyway, even if what I said was fantasy, the essence is that i don't think human as is has a chance in conquering the stars beyond our own. We need to evolve further or use genetic and cybernetic engineering to the maximum limits so we can overcome the damages of prolonged exposure in space do to us. __________________

2011-06-28, 13:45	Link #45
erneiz_hyde 18782+18782=37564 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: InterWebs	@hooves: there's more trouble than that. Radiation exposure, zero gravity environments, god-knows-what-else-exposures. And the most important thing: it takes hundreds of generations of our current lifetime for one of the shortest voyages. Impact on emotional health is also to be accounted for. __________________

2011-06-28, 15:08	Link #47
erneiz_hyde 18782+18782=37564 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: InterWebs	Btw after some light research in the internet in some seemingly trustworthy science-y sites(not the wikipedia), I see science have showed evidence that our mind is an activity of the brain. But, scientists are still reluctant to declare that our mind and body are one and the same, because they have also found apparent evidence on the contrary (mind seemingly existent with no apparent brain-activities). The general consensus though, that brain activities does generate a phenomenon we called mind, it's just that scientists expect there might be more to it. Also, if the mind is an activity of the brain, it might actually be easier to make a simulation of a mind using yet-to-be discovered powerful enough computers and advanced enough simulators, taking into consideration that the brain is essentially a very highly advanced computer. __________________

2011-06-28, 15:24	Link #48
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Just try not to make Skynet and we'll be good. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-06-28, 13:32	Link #44
Sides Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Edinburgh Age: 42	I wonder if it is actually possible, with current technology, to keep ones brain alive and active outside a biological body. I mean how fun would it be to have a synthetic body, where you can switch part when you like. Call for Mega Blaster arm cannon.

2011-06-28, 15:25	Link #49
Tempester Japanese Culture Fan Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Planet Earth Age: 33	While I think it is important to discuss plans for the far future of humanity, one thing that we in our power can do in the near future is endorse and improve education, especially in the field of science. Sure, our plans for near-immortality, colonization of Mars, antimatter propulsion, and (gosh forbid) Dyson spheres are grand and inspiring, but how will those plans become reality if the generations after us are less interested in science than we are? I can guarantee that an increased interest in science among children and youth will make the future bright. And it's not just the next generations; we ourselves should pick up that physics textbook sitting on the shelf and learn more. We may not become physicians, but with knowledge we can help the advancement of technology and humanity in several ways. At this moment of history, the library is a tool with importance rivaling the rocket.

2011-06-28, 15:30	Link #50
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The "transporter" question is one that is based on if the original is destroyed and a copy is made. What if it isn't a copy? Matter to energy and back to matter. Matter and energy cannot be destroyed, just converted. If the matter of a human is coverted to energy and then converted back into the same form as a human...is it the same human? You didn't destroy the matter or energy that was that human, you coverted it and moved it...but it is still the same matter and energy. In order to do so you have to break a few laws of physics I imagine, but also manage to get a detailed scan of every sub-atomic particle in the human body, and perhaps even beyond that. The matter is put back exactly as it was when it was converted to energy. So how is is not the same as it was before? You have not copied anything since you are not creating matter or energy, nor are you taking other matter or energy to make a new form. The question of what is a soul? Spirituality is based on faith. If the person being transported has faith that he's soul will go through and he still believes that on the other side, than his soul was also transported...because of his faith. If a soul turns out to be a actual physical or energy based item...than it too can be transported. There is no real case for there to be anything else. Either it is faith or it is real. The only way it can be real and not transported is if it is part of another dimension...at which point it wouldn't be limited by our ideals of spacetime anyway and would go to where it is needed...thus there still isn't a problem with the "transporter", as the soul will go to where its host is reguardless of distance and time. __________________

2011-06-28, 15:38	Link #51
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	The transporter idea of converting matter to energy and transmitting it, then converting it back is still pretty worthless for traveling great distances since you're still limited by light speed... It's not the same matter, either. It's taking matter, converting it into energy, then rebuilding similar matter from the same energy. Would be good for high-speed signaling applications (but not FTL communications, since it's still limited to c), not so good for moving people or complex materials. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-06-28, 15:45	Link #52
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Speed of light travel via a beam gets you to the Moon in about one second without the need to break Earth's gravity in an expensive spacecraft. May not be good for anything beyond a light-minute's reach, but it would be handy to avoid the need to expend fuel to get out of a planet's gravity. Since one major complaint is the expense of getting anything off the surface...that seems to make sense. __________________

2011-06-28, 16:01	Link #56
jamieS Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: England Age: 29	You can't travel FTL. Full stop. It is impossible. If you could find a way to travel from A to B without travelling through the space between A and B, you would appear to travel faster than light, but you still wouldn't be because you didn't go as far as you appeared to travel. That is my understanding anyway, feel free to correct me. __________________

2011-06-28, 16:07	Link #57
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Almost all forms of fictional FTL drives use some forms of way to either skip sections of space via wormholes, dimentional jumps, or placing the vessel fully or partly in another dimention so that they appear to be moving at faster than light, but the vessel itself actually is not, it is just moving in another smaller dimention or something along those lines. __________________

2011-06-28, 20:10	Link #59
Asuras Dictadere~! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: On the front lines, fighting for inderpendence.	The least we can get is close to the speed of light. Hell, maybe something along the lines of the mass effect is possible. I remember hearing somewhere on a science channel of a hypothesized particle or force that literally gives 'stuff' its mass, turning it into matter. If we could somehow warp this field to negate and objects mass, we can accelerate it faster than light, yes? All wishy-washy geeky stuff of course. __________________

2011-06-28, 20:59	Link #60
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Well, no. Light has no mass, so why isn't it going faster than 300,000 km/s? Wormholes or wormhole-like things are a much better handwave, because they can go from Point A to Point B instantaneously. Even if we could travel faster than light, it'd have to be a lot faster than light in order to facilitate transport around the galaxy. Not to mention you'd have time dilation to deal with... __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!