Customs can't distinguish hentai from other things

[tyciol]

Funny thing about the Miller test... things are presumed obscene until proven artistic...

That reminds me a lot of guilty until proven innocent. In fact, that's what it literally is, since we have outlawed things which are not artistic.

Apparently we have some artificial overly specific constructed definition of artistry which somehow can exclude writings and illustrations when ALL of these mediums are art.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Vexx

There's always some witches to persecute and burn somewhere....

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the idea that a *DRAWING* of anything can be illegal -- thoughtcrime at its most basic.

This is exactly what I thought even before clicking on this thread. But for all the lolicons and what-not they burn at the stake, I wonder who spends time tracking down the actual sex offenders? And don't even get me started on the miller test...

[Zell_ff8]

just received a package from amazon.co.jp and got a kannou shosetsu (hentai novel, this is 300 pages of only text and a couple drawings here and there) and they removed a 3 pages color comic from the beginning.
It's so frustrating. Another package with another one came fine, but it did a different route. Those pages were removed at customs at Hong Kong, London or Germany T__T

[Dist]

Well that sucks .. Does Amazon even sell loli material ? Cause if they don't, I don't get how that could have happened. There's no way normal hentai would be illegal anywhere.

Fortunately they don't do that in here, though I'm still always afraid if my doujinshi get stuck in customs .. If nothing else, it would be awkward to go and pick them up as they would inspect the contents of the package. They had planned a law here too for drawn characters to be illegal if they were under 18 but I'm glad it didn't go through and put in effect.

[Zell_ff8]

No, in fact amazon japan doesn't send overseas any ero manga. Loli or not. Of course they sell Loli, they sell tanks from TENMA Comics.

But this was a kannou shosetsu, this in particular, but it came like this. Of course its not my country' customs, they are not so pussy, and I could have done a fuzz about censorship, but the package took the "western" route from Japan, running all through europe: UK, Germany, Spain. 100% sure they did it there.
so it doesn't matter if your customs doesn't do it, the package can get revised on any in-transit customs, so yes, they can fuck your items even if it isn't meant to enter that country ¬.¬

the other half of the order, with other kannnou shosetsu even more "immoral" than that one came perfectly fine, the package went from Japan to EEUU and from there to my south america. with stickers of "opened" of both EEUU and my country..

then japanese cry about scanlators and fan translations or fansubs overseas. if one spend his savings to import one gets fucked by one or many customs. I've downloaded from kmc that very novel and was able to see the stolen pics. just a normal hentai scene already with the japanese censorship (black rectangles) on it. the others items were also revised and let loose on the big box so all the items (about 20 books) came in a totally mess, luckly in good conditions. but there was also some ecchi manga (nana to kaoru) with clear signs of being read and the spine pressed. no pages removed but still gives you a bad experience.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Zell_ff8

just received a package from amazon.co.jp and got a kannou shosetsu (hentai novel, this is 300 pages of only text and a couple drawings here and there) and they removed a 3 pages color comic from the beginning.

That might not be censorship. I'm guessing those pages were added to the customs agent's personal collection. Pilfering three pages from a 300-page book wouldn't attract anyone's attention. Certainly not as much as lifting the whole book would do.

By the way, I recommend reading or, as in my case, re-reading the letter orion posted from Handley's attorney. He presents the Constitutional issues involved clearly and makes a persuasive case that the definition of "obscenity" in Miller is too "vague" to serve as law.

[Dist]

^But if you read his post again, you'd see that the pages removed were the first 3 pages .. color pages at that. He bought a novel, in which case usually only the first few pages ( if any ) are colored. Anyone would notice that, and seeing as they were colored .. I'm guessing that's where most of the action was happening.

But still weird regardless .. If the material is censored, how does it even apply to the obscenity law ?

Also .. I highly doubt it's legal or if it even happens .. That is, if you order something and it goes through other countries .. They only send it forward, I somehow doubt they can go through the things. I order from Amazon monthly, with my packages usually going Japan => German => Finland or Japan => HK => German => Finland and I've never received a package that was even inspected. I've had some of those comics similar the one you ordered as well. With that said, I still think it's your customs, especially since you apparently live in the states ..

By the way, I suggest trying contacting Amazon. Lie a bit if you don't want to go into details, but if you report that the goods were damaged they may send you a new one, and if lucky, you'll get it without pages missing. Amazon has really good customer service so I'd suggest trying. ( I once ordered something that through their catalog error, appeared as something else. So they shipped me this something else I did not want, and when I reported it, they refunded me but I got to keep the goods they sent me. It was a over 3000 yen item too that I got. )

[Zell_ff8]

The point is that one PAYS for having the original and collect it. I personally do that, 99% of the things I buy are things I already have downloaded.

And if you collect it 3 pages ripped off that cruelty way is unacceptable. I'm 100% willing to buy it again, or if Amazon accepts return it for a replacement, but can't do it because nothing guarantees it won't happen again.

For me its just stupid. Its a BOOK, published by a recogniced company, with ISBN, sold freely in a democratic country, no way it can be illegal. And even if some crazy country like Canada or Germany considers it illegal, I don't see fair how they would filter everything that reaches it even if its for transit only!
I think it was a revision for that content because only the books with suggestive covers have signs of being readed. Other ones were perfectly fine.

[Dist]

I still don't think it's any other customs than the ones where you live at. None of my orders ever get read, and I order loads of stuff. Loads of stuff with suspicious and suggestive covers. With that said, I find it unlikely that Germany considers it illegal, and you living in the states indicates it being your customs.

But enough of that. I feel your pain .. it's stupid especially when you buy it only to collect. Anyway, you can contact amazon and they will respond in English if you can't write in Japanese. You do not have to send the book back if you make it clear that doing so would result in excessive shipping costs .. Which it would since the book is heavy.

[Zell_ff8]

Yes, Amazon has always replied my satisfactory. I don't live in USA, I live in Argentina. Postal service is a disaster (they do loot a lot and steal packages) but by courier its different and never heard that customs do something like removing pages. I ordered those items several times without problems, but this is the first time with DHL (always Fedex so the usual was Japan->EEUU) and the first time it went through europe. And I think of germany because the tracking said "Seized by customs" and "Shippment on hold" there, and after 4 days it continued to Spain.

Amazon.com once send me back for free an artbook that never reach (sent by postal) with shipment upgrade for free (the second time was by EMS and was at my home the next week).
I hope Amazon.co.jp are nice to do the same thing :S

[Dist]

Ah Argentina .. I've heard of missing packages before too .. They really should do something about that .. How can people even order anything if the people working at customs steal the stuff.

And hm .. If it says Seized by customs in Germany then I suppose I was wrong and it was indeed opened in Germany but it still strikes me as odd ... In fact, I still can't believe that they are allowed to do that.

Most of my packages have gone through FedEx .. some by DHL but not many. I hope I won't encouter the same fate you did eventually ..

I've never heard of Germany having laws about obscenity though so it's starting to sound more and more like what SeijiSensei said .. but I don't know.

[Vexx]

Interestingly, I've never even had a box from Japan opened at all by US Customs. But then I often use SAL which means they'd have to pick through zillions of packages.

[0utf0xZer0]

You mention the package going through the UK, Germany and Spain... I'd put money on the UK.

While you might think the UK's ban on animated child porn only covers explicitly lolicon material based on the rhetoric about it, it's actually the same as the ban in my own country (Canada) in that it covers any character who is or looks under 18, despite the fact that age of consent in the UK (and Canada) is actually 16. The "mission creep" between the rhetoric and the actual law is why I have zero faith that the people who makes these bans are actually trying to find a fair balance on the issue.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

You mention the package going through the UK, Germany and Spain... I'd put money on the UK.

While you might think the UK's ban on animated child porn only covers explicitly lolicon material based on the rhetoric about it, it's actually the same as the ban in my own country (Canada) in that it covers any character who is or looks under 18, despite the fact that age of consent in the UK (and Canada) is actually 16. The "mission creep" between the rhetoric and the actual law is why I have zero faith that the people who makes these bans are actually trying to find a fair balance on the issue.

Basically, the "you look at drawings I don't like, lets burn you" mission creep has gotten more and more hysterical (and I mean the term in a psychiatric way) over the years. To be honest, I've gotten rid of some manga because "if you don't read Japanese" you'd have no idea the content is diametrically opposed to sex abuse. Its like watching those crappy Law&Order series... between the screaming and scenes of horror - you have to wonder what the mental motivations of these witch burners really are.

[demonix]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

You mention the package going through the UK, Germany and Spain... I'd put money on the UK.

While you might think the UK's ban on animated child porn only covers explicitly lolicon material based on the rhetoric about it, it's actually the same as the ban in my own country (Canada) in that it covers any character who is or looks under 18, despite the fact that age of consent in the UK (and Canada) is actually 16. The "mission creep" between the rhetoric and the actual law is why I have zero faith that the people who makes these bans are actually trying to find a fair balance on the issue.

I'm guessing you missed what Zell_ff8 had said about this....

Originally Posted by Zell_ff8

And I think of germany because the tracking said "Seized by customs" and "Shippment on hold" there, and after 4 days it continued to Spain.

So it couldn't have been the UK since it was noted that it was seized by customs in Germany (besides I'd doubt customs in the UK ever opens any packages for inspection).

[Ichihara Asako]

I was concerned a dakimakura I bought recently may be seized by customs as it had an ero side (unfortunately, I'd really prefer them without but they just don't exist in any quality for characters/from series I want) but it got through just fine. As did a gift which was a little tamer but still ero all the same. Customs here is pretty strict had has a blanket "no pornography" rule, loli or not, so I'm always cautious with stuff that is ecchi or ero... but so far the only problem I've had is, of all things, a key ring being held by customs for two months.

http://myfigurecollection.net/item/3...n_pink_company

Not ero, not objectionable in any way, yet customs held it for two months without even notifying me. I was chasing up the order with the post office when they finally told me "customs has it and won't release it to us, we will deliver it as soon as it has cleared."

And oddly enough it arrived the next day. >.> I've ordered dozens of things and been given many gifts from overseas and this is the only real incident I've had. Packages inspected by customs (taped up with INSPECTED BY CUSTOMS tape) but that doesn't bother me when it's nothing to be concerned about... but some stuff I buy bordering on ero may be questionable with the current stance from the govt/customs on this stuff. Damn witchburners.

[Zell_ff8]

I requested a replacement, I will pray for it to skip inspection. Or if it was fault of some perv who stole it for himself I hope this time is not a perv. Previous one was a big box of 6kg so it's common to get it opened, but a small little box for a single book maybe can pass through unnoticed.

@Ichihara it depends on your contry laws. in Argentina for example toys are a pain to import (and a key holder could pass as a toy) and textiles you can't if you aren't a registered importer.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Ichihara Asako

I was concerned a dakimakura I bought recently may be seized by customs as it had an ero side (unfortunately, I'd really prefer them without but they just don't exist in any quality for characters/from series I want) but it got through just fine. As did a gift which was a little tamer but still ero all the same. Customs here is pretty strict had has a blanket "no pornography" rule, loli or not, so I'm always cautious with stuff that is ecchi or ero... but so far the only problem I've had is, of all things, a key ring being held by customs for two months.

http://myfigurecollection.net/item/3...n_pink_company

Not ero, not objectionable in any way, yet customs held it for two months without even notifying me. I was chasing up the order with the post office when they finally told me "customs has it and won't release it to us, we will deliver it as soon as it has cleared."

And oddly enough it arrived the next day. >.> I've ordered dozens of things and been given many gifts from overseas and this is the only real incident I've had. Packages inspected by customs (taped up with INSPECTED BY CUSTOMS tape) but that doesn't bother me when it's nothing to be concerned about... but some stuff I buy bordering on ero may be questionable with the current stance from the govt/customs on this stuff. Damn witchburners.

Sounds to me like it sat on someone's Inbox who was either disorganized slacker or off on vacation. Really.. imagine a large organization in the vein of the comic strip Dilbert - its a wonder anything ever happens right at all. Or they just thought it was so amazingly cute they couldn't bear to send it on 'for a while'.

[Dist]

^And this has .. what to do with this topic ?

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Dist

^And this has .. what to do with this topic ?

Hmmm... I think he is trying to say it's not harassment by the police/cops/etc if you are literally carrying about things with hentai content. Sorta like how the people at my school say "it's not rape if you like it"