Aldnoah.Zero - Anime Spoilers & Speculation

[Dr. Dahm]

Originally Posted by Thess

Previews, aside can we speak a bit of the quote of the show? It's obviously based on Ferdinand I's famous quote:



A quote that's used by Kant to expose a lot of his thoughts and his deontological ethics (duty based). That is to judge actions without an utilitarian approach, about the wills and inputs that happened when they were performed rather than the goals or the results achieved. Kant thought that people should follow their principles without regard to the consequences. What defines principles is a maxim, if you stick to it. For instance, in case of a character like Slaine, his maxim or sole principle is his loyalty to Asseylum. That is his duty, to speak. There are other hypothetical imperative, but there's one that's the unconditional one.

That just kind of sounds like the framework for most Gen Urobuchi story concepts though. The whole results are more important than the consequences of achieving them thing, except I've always disliked how he always seems to twist things so that the narrative is basically forced to support this nihilistic approach to things and always seems to directly condemn any character that seeks agency through altruism and simple good faith to miserable fates or demonstrations of how they were wrong. Basically I've often felt he stacks the deck in favor of his own philosophical views on life and society and while I don't necessarily flat out disagree with them, I do find a certain sense of circular logic and self-affirmation in how he constructs his stories to demonstrate his beliefs. Basically he pushes it a little too hard and bluntly and seems to leave little room in his stories for the other side of the equation to really be heard and gets its due consideration. I'd cite some more direct examples but that would kind of be broaching into spoiler territory for other shows which I believe is against the rules here.

For now I can only hope this show is able to play it a little differently though cause that whole tack is nothing really new from the guy and is kind of becoming played out already to the point where I'm doubtful he can surprise me with it anymore or get me to consider things in different ways. It's probably my biggest overarching concern about where the story might be heading though no less important than how they plan to continue whole lone man versus the might of an empire story. Perhaps they might want to take some notes from Legend of The Galactic Heroes and how that show handled that idea with it's 13th Fleet.

Originally Posted by BPD Renegade

I can't see them pulling an Inaho's-astuteness-saves-the-day every time, otherwise the show would be come a generic villain-of-the-episode type of anime, which they can't do if they really want to "surpass Gundam." Something has to give eventually.

I don't even think that's a realistic goal until somebody involved with the project sets some sort of universally agreeable bar for declaring "mission accomplished" instead of just boasting in a promotional package like the President of A-1 Pictures did. Even then I don't think something like that is realistically measurable in even the near future. It's kind of a come back in 35 years and see where it's at kind of thing if it's even still around and a viable booming franchise by then.

By the way the original Gundam TV series did actually sort of have a gimmicky Zeon robot of the week that Amuro and the White Base crew had to figure out how to defeat formula that was basically forced onto it by toy makers. I know for a fact Tomino hated it though and it was more of a tough pill that he had to swallow in order to ensure the show wasn't cancelled. It wasn't until the franchise really took off that he was able to do more or less do away with that sort of thing though. Thing is though many Gundam fan now looks back on that aspect of the TV series with a frown and disapproval and this is kind of why the movies that cut a lot of those gimmick fights out of the narrative are by and large the preferred version of the story. I find it curious though that Aldnoah.Zero would even attempt to go with an idea that Gundam tried then ultimately rejected itself in the long run as part of it's helping to define the real robot genre of mecha.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by D-Joe

Episode 5 preview

Spoiler for Holy,that first 3 second:

Despite how advanced they claim to be Martians apparently don't know how to properly transfer water from one person to another

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I too at first thought Slaine and the Princess reunited and that they were wayyy more in love than we thought.

If that's how she treats a "stranger" I wonder how she treats a "friend" and "lover"

I never got that far into AGE, but with Lelouch, we got to see it from different points were sometimes he would outwit his foes, and other times, his strategy just didn't work. I'm waiting till we see this show's version of Cornelia and Schneizel, showing the knights as having some depth to them and can strategize just as well.

Like I said Flint really shined in a commander's role and I feel that Inaho should start doing some of that as well as his teammates are quite competent in working with him.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dahm

That just kind of sounds like the framework for most Gen Urobuchi story concepts though. The whole results are more important than the consequences of achieving them thing, except I've always disliked how he always seems to twist things so that the narrative is basically forced to support this nihilistic approach to things and always seems to directly condemn any character that seeks agency through altruism and simple good faith to miserable fates or demonstrations of how they were wrong.

That's against Kant: results don't matter, at least they don't matter as much as principles.

[BPD Renegade]

Originally Posted by Thess

A quote that's used by Kant to expose a lot of his thoughts and his deontological ethics (duty based). That is to judge actions without an utilitarian approach, about the wills and inputs that happened when they were performed rather than the goals or the results achieved. Kant thought that people should follow their principles without regard to the consequences. What defines principles is a maxim, if you stick to it. For instance, in case of a character like Slaine, his maxim or sole principle is his loyalty to Asseylum. That is his duty, to speak. There are other hypothetical imperative, but there's one that's the unconditional one.

What's ambiguous is that the quote is from an unspecified perspective. Whose justice are we talking about? The Terrans? Vers? Specific characters? Right now, besides the extreme racism/destruction and whatever the higher-ups in the UFE are covering up, we haven't seen any extreme injustice. I'm hoping the black-white we're currently seeing is going to shift into grey as we delve further into the story, but development has been slow so far.

Originally Posted by Dr. Dahm

I don't even think that's a realistic goal until somebody involved with the project sets some sort of universally agreeable bar for declaring "mission accomplished" instead of just boasting in a promotional package like the President of A-1 Pictures did. Even then I don't think something like that is realistically measurable in even the near future. It's kind of a come back in 35 years and see where it's at kind of thing if it's even still around and a viable booming franchise by then.

By the way the original Gundam TV series did actually sort of have a gimmicky Zeon robot of the week that Amuro and the White Base crew had to figure out how to defeat formula that was basically forced onto it by toy makers. I know for a fact Tomino hated it though and it was more of a tough pill that he had to swallow in order to ensure the show wasn't cancelled. It wasn't until the franchise really took off that he was able to do more or less do away with that sort of thing though. Thing is though many Gundam fan now looks back on that aspect of the TV series with a frown and disapproval and this is kind of why the movies that cut a lot of those gimmick fights out of the narrative are by and large the preferred version of the story. I find it curious though that Aldnoah.Zero would even attempt to go with an idea that Gundam tried then ultimately rejected itself in the long run as part of it's helping to define the real robot genre of mecha.

That's why I put "surpass Gundam" in quotes.

But like others implied, if they want to go this route, they should have the superiors notice Inaho's strategic ability and give him units to work with. So far, he's only had a few fellow students/teens to work with; it's unrealistic for them to miraculously make it out of every skirmish unscathed. Like ImperialKnight mentioned, the execution is lacking, and they need to fix it somehow.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by BPD Renegade

What's ambiguous is that the quote is from an unspecified perspective. Whose justice are we talking about? The Terrans? Vers? Specific characters? Right now, besides the extreme racism/destruction and whatever the higher-ups in the UFE are covering up, we haven't seen any extreme injustice. I'm hoping the black-white we're currently seeing is going to shift into grey as we delve further into the story, but development has been slow so far.

It's funny, because I was just noticing on tvtropes that have that this show has "black and grey morality" because of the fact that the Terrans train their children to become soldiers, fill their heads with false hope, and have covered up the event 15 years ago.
However, like you said, I would really put this as just "black and white" as interestingly, despite the threat, while all high school children have to go through military training, they aren't drafted or anything and they do have choices once they graduate. As for "false hope" having everyone in a depression over how powerful the Martians are not good to a recovering economy that has just been hit by the largest global natural disaster in history. So, I can't fault them for that either. In fact, the Earth forces didn't really know the power that they truly faced anyway, since the knights never fought in the previous war. The cover up was probably for the same reason as the giving false hope.

As of right now, the Martians are by and large the bad guys, while the Terrans are completely the victims. One group decimating the other for greed and power.
The sides are sooo mismatched that I can't really ever see any room for grey area. No matter what the Terrans did or will do, couldn't compare with what the Martians have done. As the Martian population still has yet to reach a million, even if the Earth was to completely blow up Mars, that still wouldn't match the millions that the knights have killed and the homes they have destroyed.

Right now, the scales of justice are completely in the Earth's favor, but what will that mean for the show? How shall the Earth get justice for the incredible atrocities that have been committed against it?

[Dr. Dahm]

Originally Posted by BPD Renegade

What's ambiguous is that the quote is from an unspecified perspective. Whose justice are we talking about? The Terrans? Vers? Specific characters? Right now, besides the extreme racism/destruction and whatever the higher-ups in the UFE are covering up, we haven't seen any extreme injustice. I'm hoping the black-white we're currently seeing is going to shift into grey as we delve further into the story, but development has been slow so far.

That's why I put "surpass Gundam" in quotes.

But like others implied, if they want to go this route, they should have the superiors notice Inaho's strategic ability and give him units to work with. So far, he's only had a few fellow students/teens to work with; it's unrealistic for them to miraculously make it out of every skirmish unscathed. Like ImperialKnight mentioned, the execution is lacking, and they need to fix it somehow.

Hey man you never know it could just one of those youth empowerment narratives in the long run instead of those coming of age type deals.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

As of right now, the Martians are by and large the bad guys, while the Terrans are completely the victims. One group decimating the other for greed and power.

The sides are sooo mismatched that I can't really ever see any room for grey area. No matter what the Terrans did or will do, couldn't compare with what the Martians have done. As the Martian population still has yet to reach a million, even if the Earth was to completely blow up Mars, that still wouldn't match the millions that the knights have killed and the homes they have destroyed.

The Martian population has nothing to do with what the Orbital Counts have done. The timeline indicates both Earth and Mars people want peace, so the only ones against this agenda are the knights who refused the Emperor's order to return home.

I'll say, by the description of the hardships the colonists faced when they were dispatched on Mars, they had their reason for their distaste of Earth government in general.

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by Thess

I'll say, by the description of the hardships the colonists faced when they were dispatched on Mars, they had their reason for their distaste of Earth government in general.

Yeah but even then it was poorly done and it bugs the hell out of me.

I mean the greatest find in the universe and the government ends up sending poorly trained people to "terraform" a planet that could hold important and new technologies?

According to the timeline the people who "volunteered" knew that due to the lack of resources and such it'd be an incredibly difficult journey and task to terraform the planet. Yet when they got there they complained and the Earth government didn't care...I mean it seems like it was a half-assed job. No government on Earth would ever do that, especially with the chance of finding a new tech extremely high.

You'd think that they'd send several battalions of soldiers with scientists, engineers, etc. to set up the foundation before sending in random people that easily got converted into a "cult"

I mean it makes no sense.

In any case I don't see how grey it could get. Sure maybe the Terrans would want revenge but you really can't blame them after having millions of them slaughtered within minutes and being thrown back into the stone age.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

You'd think that they'd send several battalions of soldiers with scientists, engineers, etc. to set up the foundation before sending in random people that easily got converted into a "cult"

I mean it makes no sense.

In any case I don't see how grey it could get. Sure maybe the Terrans would want revenge but you really can't blame them after having millions of them slaughtered within minutes and being thrown back into the stone age.

It's just like every colonization ever, it just grew faster because of the technological superiority.

Revenge wouldn't solve anything.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

In any case though are the mechs just going to keep dropping until Inaho decides to jump into the fights? I mean they're gonna run out of soldiers at this rate and it gets tiring seeing the same thing over and over again.

Yeah, have to agree there, it wouldn't be so bad if the other guys were at least holding there own and it was just a matter of some strategic hit that tipped the balance, but this whole everyone loses until Inaho appears isn't good for the show.

I'm sort of hoping that this time it's someone else's plan they put into action, and it's more a matter that the regular combat troops are too tied up trying to keep the guy from cleaving the bridge or something to get in position.

[Arya]

Yes, it would be better to move on from something that could become quickly a Monster of The week format already, format I usually can't stand (I still remember E7/AO), and that Inaho will not save the day again, but I think the writers know what they are doing. Even if, considering that his opponent declared how he, Inaho, wasn't worth (implying a grudge against Inaho), I'm not expecting it happening this episode, but probably from the next one. That opponent would want to take his revenge that will doom him.

Anyways, very wth first 3 seconds from the PV I have to admit, I can't recognize any relevant details from that scene. I can recognize only some very long legs coming out from the pod that made me think that the person was Slaine's father. But if that's the princess, and not, say, his mother, I hope to be wrong I was never good with these kind of games.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Arya

Anyways, very wth first 3 seconds from the PV I have to admit, I can't recognize any relevant details from that scene. I can recognize only some very long legs coming out from the pod that made me think that the person was Slaine's father. But if that's the princess, and not, say, his mother, I hope to be wrong I was never good with these kind of games.

Look like a pair of kids to me, one is buckled/standing on a platform in the capsule, but the arms are the girl's length to be an adult (just like the shape of his mouth when she begins the water feeding/passionate kissing substitute). At least one is very clearly a little girl. Unless, of course, the princess' mother is really underdeveloped.

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by Thess

Look like a pair of kids to me, one is buckled/standing on a platform in the capsule, but the arms are the girl's length to be an adult (just like the shape of his mouth when she begins the water feeding/passionate kissing substitute). At least one is very clearly a little girl. Unless, of course, the princess' mother is really underdeveloped.

I find it hilarious that the guy's arms are like in the "duh" position. I wonder if that was on purpose.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Thess

Look like a pair of kids to me, one is buckled/standing on a platform in the capsule, but the arms are the girl's length to be an adult (just like the shape of his mouth when she begins the water feeding/passionate kissing substitute). At least one is very clearly a little girl. Unless, of course, the princess' mother is really underdeveloped.

Yes, she looks like the princess, but one of the two limbs hanging out from the pod is like five times the princess' arm and half her hips. But again this game it's not my thing, and it's obvious he has to be Slaine. Despite how the whole scene doesn't seem to have any sense, if not shipping wise, it wouldn't make any sense at all if he was someone else.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Arya

Yes, she looks like the princess, but one of the two limbs hanging out from the pod is like five times the princess' arm and half her hips. But again this game it's not my thing, and it's obvious he has to be Slaine. Despite how the whole scene doesn't seem to have any sense, if not shipping wise, it wouldn't make any sense at all if he was someone else.

Let our Japanese friends in twitter polish the details with an approximation for us. The arms are the same length more or less (hers are thinner because he's wearing that astronaut suit), you think his are longer because they are limp while hers are flexed.

As for the scene, they are evoking this troupe: feeding water or medicine or soup to someone mouth to mouth 'cause it's hot or romantic. I'm sure some of you watched Princess Tutu,

Spoiler for spoiler for the second season I guess:

Rue (who was younger than Asseylum then) did this to Mytho when he was also seemly unconscious.

I'm sure it's Slaine because it'd be creepy if it was his dad and his head is way too small to be an adult. But well, if they want to troll and be it his dad, I don't mind either.

Of course, on a common sense level, this mouth feeding/watering is completely against health, but it's a romantic troupe they love. Just look at that pic, his escape pod (?) just happened to land on some kind of mystical fountain centerpiece surrounded by majestic pillars that offer such a nice illumination to make the scene even more stunning. I must say they went all out if this is their meeting, I pictured something more tame, like Asseylum protecting them from an arrest or execution not well, this.

[Arya]

ok, now I can see it. Thanks. Their blondness misled me to take as they were all princess' And his arms look much more thicker then I would expect, it's that I was referring to about the five times, five times thick. That considering their age and that Slaine is supposedly thin more or less like the princess. But that is due to the space-suit that gave that bloated shape.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Arya

ok, now I can see it. Thanks. Their blondness misled me to take as they were all princess' And his arms look much more thicker then I would expect, it's that I was referring to about the five times, five times thick. That considering their age and that Slaine is supposedly thin more or less like the princess. But that is due to the space-suit that gave that bloated shape.

Space suits really give that extra fullness.

This was also mentioned in the japanese twitter. But maybe this is inspiration for the building? It does look great, so I imagined it had a real-life approximate they based on.

[Dormouse]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I think you're merging your series a bit there.

However, I think Aldnoah has to be something.

Why?

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

The power in the glowing balls that powers the Martian machines.

Nah, man. Space magic.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

The light that can flow over objects and become a barrier that absorbs practically everything.

Space magic

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

And whatever it was that Marito saw that day that's scared him for 15 years.

Space magicians.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Aldnoah exists, whatever it is. We just don't really have any clues other than mentions of it right now.

Probably the magicians just came up with it like, propaganda like. Nothwithstdanging, that is.

That propaganda idea sounds fun.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Thess

The Martian population has nothing to do with what the Orbital Counts have done. The timeline indicates both Earth and Mars people want peace, so the only ones against this agenda are the knights who refused the Emperor's order to return home.

I'll say, by the description of the hardships the colonists faced when they were dispatched on Mars, they had their reason for their distaste of Earth government in general.

I'm thinking in terms of hypothetical statistical numbers. In terms of what Mars has done compared to what Earth could do to make themselves be in the more "grey" area. I'm saying that even if Earth was to become so evil that they completely wiped Mars off the space map and killed every Martian, it still wouldn't be as bad as what the Martians in the name of the Vers Empire have done.

Also, it doesn't matter if the Martians acted on their own or not. They are still officially under the power of the Emperor and thus the Empire itself. Their actions reflect that of the Empire. So what if they "rebelled" the order, even if the emperor is only a figure head, it is his job to give out consequences because of said "rebellion" against the order. He gave them their titles and their position and their "land". He can easily have stripped them of all that and named them rogues, he could have bared them from ever returning to Mars. However, he has done none of that, and so indirectly has condoned their actions for whatever they have done, and whatever they might do. As Emperor, he has allowed his knights to do what they please under the name of the Vers Empire, and so he is just as responsible.

In terms of how the other Martians feel about the war, I'm not so sure as you are they they all wanted peace either. All of them seem to have a feeling that Terrans are primitives and not equal to them (we can see that from the Princess' maid, who has not lived with the knights and is not a noble, and yet she says that as if it's a fact of life), also, no one really seemed to be in support of the Princess going for peace talks as Cruhteo mentions it in passing that he's tried his best to talk her out of it, as if its the most natural notion in the world.

And unfortunately, until we see otherwise, the knights and (sub-knights) are still the only real glimpse we see of Martian culture. And I have to assume that the princess' views are in the small minority. The only people so far that she's mentioned also wanting peace was Slaine and his father, who are both Terrans. So, as of right now, we are looking at a very black and white situation here.

Originally Posted by Dormouse

Why?

Nah, man. Space magic.

Space magic

Space magicians.

Probably the magicians just came up with it like, propaganda like. Nothwithstdanging, that is.

That propaganda idea sounds fun.

Umm, since the princess' "magical transformation" turned out to only be technology, I have to think that everything else is technology and that the Aldnoah is a very powerful source of the alien tech. We'll have to see as the show continues.