(L) Sousou no Frieren (葬送のフリーレン)

[shmaster]

This ending is so hard for me to swallow. It is so empty and hallow.
Macht came this far only to end up with nothing

[Endscape]

It's true that Macht never found what he was looking for inside of himself, but there are other people whose lives were touched by his and will remember him sort of fondly instead of hating him completely, like Denken.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Endscape

It's true that Macht never found what he was looking for inside of himself, but there are other people whose lives were touched by his and will remember him sort of fondly instead of hating him completely, like Denken.

What I can't stand is that, at least to me, I believe ge did acquired some human emotions, but still died not knowing it. Just he is fixated on malice and guilt alone that he didn't notice other emotion he developed.
The way he questions himself why he is trying to escape and escape to where felt very human to me. Especially so that his destination is his good old friend. The action he took proved that he already developed a sense of belonging to his friend. And Macht died without being self conscious about it made me felt so very empty.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by shmaster

What I can't stand is that, at least to me, I believe ge did acquired some human emotions, but still died not knowing it. Just he is fixated on malice and guilt alone that he didn't notice other emotion he developed.
The way he questions himself why he is trying to escape and escape to where felt very human to me. Especially so that his destination is his good old friend. The action he took proved that he already developed a sense of belonging to his friend. And Macht died without being self conscious about it made me felt so very empty.

That's the tragedy.

Macht did in fact learn about emotions but he never recognized it in himself precisely because he never made an effort to stray away from his demonic instincts. Even when he was with Gluck, he was mostly doing more of the same. Solitar was the same as well.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by shmaster

What I can't stand is that, at least to me, I believe ge did acquired some human emotions, but still died not knowing it. Just he is fixated on malice and guilt alone that he didn't notice other emotion he developed.
The way he questions himself why he is trying to escape and escape to where felt very human to me. Especially so that his destination is his good old friend. The action he took proved that he already developed a sense of belonging to his friend. And Macht died without being self conscious about it made me felt so very empty.

The reason why he is escaping, is because he is instinctively trying to prioritize his own survival over others.
That's the point of the flashback with Solitar. Everything they do is instinctively for their own self-benefit.

He invalidated whatever belonging he had with Gluck when he tried to take his own master's life hostage. He said he would accept his judgment and then did the opposite of that because he couldn't resist his demonic instincts for survival.
He could have just let Denken end his life more peacefully, but chose not to.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

The reason why he is escaping, is because he is instinctively trying to prioritize his own survival over others.
That's the point of the flashback with Solitar. Everything they do is instinctively for their own self-benefit.

You missed my point.
His escape itself is natural and not what I am addressing.
It is the fact he questioned it, and not just the escape itself but also where. For your average demon, such question won't even register in their mind at all.
It is pretty heart breaking for me to see all the hints has been laid before him yet Macht still doesn't get it and just died a demon death like everyone before him.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by shmaster

You missed my point.
His escape itself is natural and not what I am addressing.
It is the fact he questioned it, and not just the escape itself but also where. For your average demon, such question won't even register in their mind at all.
It is pretty heart breaking for me to see all the hints has been laid before him yet Macht still doesn't get it and just died a demon death like everyone before him.

Sure, but no one ever said he was an average demon - just still a demon nonetheless.

He was compared to Solitar and the Demon Lord for a reason. They all questioned their relationship with humanity in their own ways, but still acted like demons to the very end.

[shmaster]

Reading some discussion on line, there are two points I find pretty interesting.
First one is Macht followed Gluck's order until the very end, I regards to Denken.
Gluck in the past ordered Macht to be Denken's mentor and the same time be an enemy for him to overcome, and wants Macht to remain that way until the very end.
Macht may have taken that order really literally.
Macht in his battle with Denken, there were moments Macht express joy when Denken was able to fight back.
And when Denken fell unconscious this chapter, Macht fled without finishing Denken out, when a demon should naturally ensure the kill to secure his own survival.
The most interesting interpretation I see though, is Macht's threat against Denken. There are many way for Macht to use Gluck to ensure safety. Like asking Gluck to order Denken to back off or have Gluck assist him in escape. But he choose to present himself as a threat to Denken instead of any other alternative. And this is actually Macht still honoring Gluck's order to be Denken's enemy until the very end.
So the point is, Macht still behaved like a demon in the end, but in the options of many demonic behaviors he could take, he took the ones that matched with Gluck's order instead of pure efficiency.

Another point I find interesting is that, demon and human CAN co-exist, and they do not need the mutual understanding. If anything, demon trying to understand human will only make things more difficult.
What it takes for demon to co-exist with human is to have demon follow humans rule book and that's it. No understanding is required. Hunan just need a statistical fact showing that demons have a better chance of survival of they live by humans rule than killing. This should not be hard for demon at all, especially so when they value survival over anything. And they are so good at acting that human most likely won't take notice if a demon try to co-exist without understanding.
Looking at the argument, I think that girl demon that Frieren met when still traveling either Himmel is close enough? Especially so with her truly not understanding what she did wrong in the end, believe what she did should make humans attack her less.
So instead of expecting a demon could adept to human mind, mind just give them list of things not to do amd tell them if they follow through, their chance of survival will be 200% higher than before. At least for that girl demon, if someone else had told her what she did is going to endanger her instead, I am pretty sure she won't try to kill the man to take the child.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Reading some discussion on line, there are two points I find pretty interesting.
First one is Macht followed Gluck's order until the very end, I regards to Denken.
Gluck in the past ordered Macht to be Denken's mentor and the same time be an enemy for him to overcome, and wants Macht to remain that way until the very end.
Macht may have taken that order really literally.
Macht in his battle with Denken, there were moments Macht express joy when Denken was able to fight back.
And when Denken fell unconscious this chapter, Macht fled without finishing Denken out, when a demon should naturally ensure the kill to secure his own survival.
The most interesting interpretation I see though, is Macht's threat against Denken. There are many way for Macht to use Gluck to ensure safety. Like asking Gluck to order Denken to back off or have Gluck assist him in escape. But he choose to present himself as a threat to Denken instead of any other alternative. And this is actually Macht still honoring Gluck's order to be Denken's enemy until the very end.
So the point is, Macht still behaved like a demon in the end, but in the options of many demonic behaviors he could take, he took the ones that matched with Gluck's order instead of pure efficiency.

Another point I find interesting is that, demon and human CAN co-exist, and they do not need the mutual understanding. If anything, demon trying to understand human will only make things more difficult.
What it takes for demon to co-exist with human is to have demon follow humans rule book and that's it. No understanding is required. Hunan just need a statistical fact showing that demons have a better chance of survival of they live by humans rule than killing. This should not be hard for demon at all, especially so when they value survival over anything. And they are so good at acting that human most likely won't take notice if a demon try to co-exist without understanding.
Looking at the argument, I think that girl demon that Frieren met when still traveling either Himmel is close enough? Especially so with her truly not understanding what she did wrong in the end, believe what she did should make humans attack her less.
So instead of expecting a demon could adept to human mind, mind just give them list of things not to do amd tell them if they follow through, their chance of survival will be 200% higher than before. At least for that girl demon, if someone else had told her what she did is going to endanger her instead, I am pretty sure she won't try to kill the man to take the child.

That isn't realistic for the vast majority on either side, because
1) most act based on some level of emotion no matter how logical they are, and
2) demons act according to their own self-benefit and most humans are too weak to hold any leverage over a demon.

Gluck made it work by presenting himself as beneficial to to Macht's interests, and even he got betrayed twice.
For example with the demon child how do you expect a normal family to be able to stop her from killing them?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

The reason why he is escaping, is because he is instinctively trying to prioritize his own survival over others.
That's the point of the flashback with Solitar. Everything they do is instinctively for their own self-benefit.

But the fact he feels frustrated about his instinctive impulse to escape shows he did develop emotions. It's just that these emotions couldn't overpower his demonic instinct.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

But the fact he feels frustrated about his instinctive impulse to escape shows he did develop emotions. It's just that these emotions couldn't overpower his demonic instinct.

That's a bit of a stretch to say he "feels frustrated". He can easily recognize he's being contradictory through intellect, just like Solitar could reason how Freiren was feeling.

I could also argue that demons always had "emotions" in the strictest sense of the word, since even Aura cried and expressed fear when she was about to die.
It's just that Macht was specifically looking for human compassion and empathy for others that demons lack.

[Twi]

Manga updated just to go back on break next week...

Arc ends pretty okay.

[Twi]

Another chill chapter came out, but I think its going right back on break.

Edit: Also, there was a popularity poll. Himmel got first, Hero of the South got Eigth, Frieren got second with her kids earning places just a bit lower, a mimic got third, and even Macht earned a place along with Aura. No Kraft though.

[Twi]

I heard this series just went on indefinite hiatus. Can anyone verify?

[kari-no-sugata II]

At end of latest chapter it said there'll be a several week break but not seen any news since.

It seems that the author is busy helping with the anime. Seems to be a common thing these days.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

It seems that the author is busy helping with the anime. Seems to be a common thing these days.

Where is this actually stated? It sounds more like your own speculation.

If it was just the anime then the hiatus wouldn't be indefinite, and the series has had a history of taking breaks before.

[kari-no-sugata II]

All I know is that the release rate dropped off significantly around the time of the anime announcement and that I've seen that happen with other series. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

All I know is that the release rate dropped off significantly around the time of the anime announcement and that I've seen that happen with other series. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

IIRC wasn't this taking plenty of breaks before the anime announcement? I just assumed the author is ill or is trying to avoid ruining their health.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Endscape

IIRC wasn't this taking plenty of breaks before the anime announcement? I just assumed the author is ill or is trying to avoid ruining their health.

46 chapters release in 2021. 28 chapters in 2022, 18 in the first half of the year, 10 in the second half.

The timing doesn't exactly match with the announcement of the anime (September) though but who knows what was going on in the background.

Could be health. Could be the anime. Could be both.

[Magin]

Whether it's health or anime, it's official:

Frieren: Beyond Journey's End Manga goes on Hiatus