2023-03-08, 03:30
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Link #4521 | ||
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Join Date: Nov 2019
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1=the wall: a mix of Rio scarred from the death of his mother + Haruto memories. keeps distance, trusts nobody. // early vol 1 2=friends with Celia: due to nurturing a healthy relationship with Celia, he regained some love and warmth in his heart. // vol 1 3=more warmth: if he didn't meet Celia, I think he would have just lopped Latifa's head off and went on his way. this is the stage where he meets/befriends more people and gets more warmth and love in his heart. // vol 2 -> mid vol 3 (up to when he decides on revenge) 4=revenge or not: he thinks revenge is evil but still desires revenge on Lucius. In the end he decides to go through with it, not out of hatred but since he can't forgive that Lucius is alive. This was a major point in his character development as it is at this point that Rio decides that his main objective in life is revenge, sure he still has people he cares for and would help in times of trouble, but those are side quests, his main story quest was always revenge. // mid vol 3 -> late vol 8 (after he fought Lucius before Flora) 5=maidenless: Rio believes that someone like him; embroiled in a bloody struggle, spurred by the flames of revenge, should not be around kind and warm people like Miharu or any of the girls, *speculation: But especially Miharu, since for a long time she's like his guiding light.* It may make sense to conclude he didn't think about stuff like that until he met Lucius again, and the question of "is it fine for a filthy revenger like me to be around these people appeared in his head, along with its easy answer of NO it's not." // vol 9 -> mid vol 10 (until his match with Satsuki followed by his talk with the Sendo siblings) 6=maidenless no more: despite his beliefs and way of thinking, Rio hit a wall when Miharu still insisted on being with him. The latter's resolve, along with Aishia and Satsuki being supportive of her; one guiding her from behind and the other directly discussing the matter with Rio made him buckle and change his way of thinking, this, by far can be considered the biggest growth in his character. Some may argue that vol 9 and 10 were Miharu's character development, but to me, they are undeniably Rio's most major character development arc, although the consequences of said development will not appear until later down the road. // late vol 10 7=back to the grind: despite his new found way of thinking that he can aim to be with and try to attain happiness with those he loves, revenge was still the main quest in Rio's life and he was fully set on meting it out. Nonetheless, this is where the first effect of phase 6's (vol 10) growth can be seen, he became more honest with the girls and started to actively tell them about himself and how he feels towards them, this new aspect of his personality is not temporary and would carry on for good. It is apparent when he told rock house girls about his honest feeling in vol 14 prologue. // vol 11-> late vol 14 (until he found and killed Lucius) 8=back to his waifus: The second effect of his character development in phase 6 (vol 10) takes effect and can be witnessed. pre phase 6 Rio would have though that it is too convenient to just kill a dude then return to that warm home filled with happiness and brightness, that his karma would catch up to him and end up harming not him but the girls around him. post phase 6 Rio is different, he was taught by the girls (mainly Miharu, Satsuki and Aishia) that he is allowed to be happy with them. Moreover, the spirit trio + Miharu, Aishia, Latifa, and Celia have grown too big in his heart, he considered them his home by that point. Rio marched on, not to disappear for good from their lives, but to go back to his home. His new found main quest; to make those girls happy. (imho; borderline harem mindset.) On top of further deepening his bond with the above mentioned girls, the protagonist further develops his already good relations with the other girls such as Satsuki, Lize and Charlotte. The 2 main effects of his change in vol 10 are in on full display: he wants to stay by their sides and make them happy and he refuses to hide his feelings from them anymore. Apparent when he told Celia he wants to be besides her, Miharu that he's thankful to her and he will not run from Haruto anymore, Rize when he told her he's happy she's safe and he came there of his own will to save her. // vol 15 -> late vol 20 (up until he used annihilation/extinction against great earth) 9=ghosted by the world: forgotten and alone (3 people). The dragon king party resolves to get back the bonds they lost. He neither hesitated nor beat his head around it, Rio very honestly told Celia that he wants to be with everyone. // vol 21 -> current If you seriously think a dude who had all that character development can't go from loving them like family to loving them as women to honestly asking for a harem, then let's just agree on disagreeing, Roberto. Either way, the question of poly/mono? is useless on current Rio who romantically speaking is on the stage of "romantic love? Is that the name of spice?" Quote:
It gives me conniptions too how those guys continue to live, but with Reiss it was mostly either running away with teleportation or Rio having to prioritize protecting someone, the three stooges who work for him - one of whom is dead - I can agree, they've had no business being alive for 10 vols or so up to now, Nidor and Duran are a different matter as there would have been no point or merit in killing them from Rio's pov. The same goes for Charles as well, killing him would have made things very bad for Christina and by consequence Celia. Nonetheless, it still gives me conniptions, but rather than be frustrated with Rio, it's more Kitayama that keeps messing up those scenes than Rio being a wuss, wait no it's not, sure it's mostly Kitayama being a genius, but it's also Rio not having the right mindset when faced with enemies who keep threatening his life as well as those of the people close to him. Alas, when looking at Rio's personality, it's very weird that he is being soo passive towards the situation. Hence, in my view, that too is mostly Kitayama shoving down his plot and its convenience down the main character's throat. Last edited by hihoperorin; 2023-03-08 at 03:49. |
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2023-03-08, 22:16
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Link #4522 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
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the fanboys; that they were satisfied with everything, they did not criticize anything, eat anything that the author throws at them and they did not have critical thinking (jagt, nekomashi, marco etc) the critical readers, those who analyze, criticize, reason and have critical thinking You are undoubtedly a critical reader, the antithesis of readers like Jagt, who are fanboys of the series and do not see any problem, you are one of the few people in this forum who really understands and sees the problems of the series "when looking at Rio's personality, it's very weird that he is being soo passive towards the situation. Hence, in my view, that too is mostly Kitayama shoving down his plot and its convenience down the main character's throat" in this little paragraph (which by the way is pure gold) you described the real problem of the series, which is precisely the weak writing of yuri kitayama, he writes in a weak way that makes us think that Rio is mentally retarded,sometimes he acts like a true mental retard, because if he acted consistent with his character the plot would be compromised, I already lost count of how many opportunities he has had to kill Reis, but Rio has let him go without any logical reason. That encounter he had with Reis in volume 20 comes to mind, at that moment he had Reis in front of him, and not only him, but also the other 2 useless dogs of Lucius, whom by then had already tried to kill the girls several times, (the ambush of the border, the attack on the castle etc) , He had them there in front of him and served on a silver platter to kill them and end all problems with a single swing of his sword but Rio just let them go  if you ask fanboys like jagt, why did Rio let them go? he will tell you that he let them go because of Rio had few masks at the time (however, killing them there would have meant the ultimate masks saving, a real investment, you don't need the masks to help the girls, if those who threaten them are dead), there is also the excuse that renji was there, and if it got out of control, rio without aishia couldn't face it (ignoring that he could just knock out renji like he did, and then kill reis and company) the text above is the problem of this novel, yuri puts rio in situations where either he can solve everything easily or he can end up looking like a mental retard, stupid and coward, if yuri wasn't such an idiot himself, he wouldn't put rio in those situations that make him look like a moron. but even if you are a critical reader, I still strongly disagree with some of your ideas, in my opinion they are too positive,especially in the matter of charles, duran and proxia, you don't have to be very smart to know that duran and proxia are going to cause problems later, so clearly the option is to kill them while Rio have the opportunity, with Charles it is an even more worrying matter, he had to die in volume 5 in the rescue of Celia, there really was no reason to let him live, and as a consequence of letting him live, he chased Cristina at the border, he hitted Celia, he attack restoration with Renji, And who knows what more problems he will cause in the future? the analysis you did was so good that you convinced me that Rio has had a development (very poor and slow, but it did exist), you are right, he has changed his ideas but so slowly that I am going to die of old age before seeing a more palpable change, but even if is true that he has had a development, he will never accept the harem, character development is one thing and CHANGE the character is another, for Rio to accept polygamy his character would have to be destroyed at its core and built again, something that with yuri's poor talent I don't see possible. you are smart so i shall spoil the final arc of this novel, save you some time, after Rio defeats the demon king, he, miharu and aisha (who may or may not be fusedwit miharu) will continue with their immortal life while the other girls die of old age, there will be no harem , but the identity of the girls' partners will not be revealed either, as that would make the audience extremely angry, end.
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2023-03-08, 23:22
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Link #4523 | ||||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
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to show some actual backbone you know, Have you really thought about what a harem ending implies? assuming for 1 second that it will happen, (it won't happen) do you realize the position in which Rio would find himself?, he would be monarch of beltrum (by marriage to cristina) can you imagine a dude with a will as weak as him as king ? I don't, what's more, Rio would never accept that, and there is no what if scenario that you can posible imagine that would convince me of a hypothetical situation in which Rio being a king could be possible, he is not fit for the job There's also Charlotte and Liselotte, those 2 have a very high social pedigree in garluk, and Rio is always afraid of nobles and their dirty tricks, there's nothing RIO hates more than socializing with nobles,That is why he did not want to accept his position as an honorary knight, he was FORCED to take that position, if he accepted those 2 charlote and liselote as wifes he would find himself surrounded by scum like Clement or Michael, always annoying, they are human trash who thinks he is better than others because they were born in a more affluent family I bet you hadn't thought of any of this, right? I could write paragraphs and paragraphs about this, but my bedtime is coming up and I can't get too excited. In short, the main impediment to the harem end is the lack of rio balls. he is supposed to be the protector of the world but frankly he sucks at his job, he cant protect shit really, he is way too soft, some people call it amability, others estupidity, there is nothing wrong with being nice, but you have to know when and with whom, i remember some "adventurers" in vol 12 (i think) they wanted to capture Rio group and rape the girls while they were at it, and Rio let them go, without thinking that the mercy that Rio had with them, they will not have it with their next victims, I can't see a guy like this with more than 1 woman, really, Miharu is the only winner, you guys should know by now Quote:
I disagree, he never "does things" at least not willingly, he is always reacting, never acting, he is a force who reacts to movement, he does not provoke the movement Quote:
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This is very important, you know that, you know that he rejects those ideas and yet you expect him to marry all those noble women? Doesn't that seem like a big contradiction? It doesn't make any sense to me, it's already unrealisticl enough to expect Rio to accept a polygamous relationship, even more unrealistic to expect Rio to actively pursue a polygamous relationshipand even so you ask for more, what do you expect you him to do? You want Rio to asks all the girls to be part of his harem and to abandon everything for him and follow him? JA you are drunk pal, You are leaving the territories of the unrealistic folk and you are entering the territories of the delusional folk. wake up friend, we are talking about Rio, the guy who was defeated by kota, kota got a GF before mister "harem"
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2023-03-09, 02:16
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Link #4524 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
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Roberto my man, you seem to be making a few misunderstandings:
1/ I am nekodamashii, I changed my name a while back 2 / If you check past posts, I've always been critical, just not on everything. I'm a bit confused as to how I should answer man, you sorta called me a critical thinking smart reader and a smooth brained fanboy in the same post man. Regardless, I agree with you that Kitayama writing is very weak on the point where he keeps twisting Rio characteristics and personality to suit his plot. I just don't get if he expects us to just ignore that Rio's answer to himself and those around him being targeted every once in a while is to have more tea parties. I also sort of agree on your point on the masks, even if there is some logic in Jagt's logic, there is also logic in yours, if Reiss's giving him trouble, Rio should just off with his head, a conclusion that seems so extraterrestrial to Rio. Then Jagt can still answer you with the logic of "the masks are not perfect, if the mask he's wearing isn't enough to handle the rules' feedback from killing Reiss, Rio might lose his memories, not to mention how Rio isn't all that familiar with the rules or the masks yet." to which I would agree. Nonetheless, cut me some slack already, reading about Reiss being a villain in this novel is like watching the same YouTube video on loop for years. A one trick pony doing his thing, he's always going to be a tard that masquerades as a tactician then do something inconsequential before riding his wyvern to safety or teleporting out of the situation and Rio will never think to have countermeasures or take the fight to him, cuz that doesn't suit the plot of Kitayama. Albeit, that's more or less where Kitayama's weak writing ends for me, it's already a very good novel, but if not for the above mentioned weaknesses, it would have sublimated into something much better, at a level it can never reach now since the plot has been written and Rio's character has been corrupted by Kitayama. ps: this is a harem man, there is no way he'll jus go with the Lina trinity and yeet the others out the window. The whole progress Rio went through was for that, for the big harem. Btw guys, someone plz help. How do I know if my reply to a private message got through here? I get redirected to my inbox once I submit the reply, my sent items folder is the same zero it was before I replied and when I open the message post that was sent to me, I don't see my reply post below it. Last edited by hihoperorin; 2023-03-09 at 02:39. |
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2023-03-09, 08:11
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Link #4525 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Spain
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I have criticised aspects of these novels in the past. In volume 19, I said it did a good job of answering the question of how strong every girl and Gouki's group was but I criticised that it seemed to just exist for the sake of putting something in between the two Rio vs Erika. In volume 20 I also criticsed how easy Erika had it for gaining the people to her side even taking into account that the masses in the middle ages were really that stupid and that she showed them the "miracle of resurrection". In volume 23, I have also said alongside others that I didn't like how centered around Takahisa it was the book despite undertanding the reason it was like that, a concern that Marco also expressed. As you see there are plenty of examples of critics to the series from me and the others, some very recent despite them not being all. But because I Don't agree with the lies you spout I am smooth brained, yes of course. What else? I couldn't need any less a bot's lesson's about "critical thinking", even more when those critics are based in lies or in things that bot makes up in his head. You say Rio is passive about the situation, when Rio literally crossed half the world in search of a solution to his situation. You say Rio doesn't take countermeassures but he not only surrounded the girls of a group of guards so strong that it is considered worth thousands of men in the form of Gouki's group but he also left Aisia behind in case there is a need of taking care of special individuals like Reis and Renji. You said that Rio had plenty of chances to kill Reis, but there was just the one from volume 12, and then he left him alive becuase he had to run to the girls' rescue not because he considered he didn't have to kill him. You mentioned in the past too that he didn't kill at that time Arein, Lucci and Ven either, but the one who fought them, defeated them, left them unconscious and didn't finish them off was Sara and not Rio, yes Sara, S-A-R-A, that silver haired girl with twintails that isn't Rio. The only time Rio fought Arein, Lucci and Ven was in volume 15, and then he didn't leave them alive because he wanted, he attacked them with the intent to take them down but it just happened that they survived instead of Rio not trying and that he needed to prioritize Christina's and Flora's safety. You mention volume 21 and again on purpose let out of the matter the details that don't suit your point, mentioning just that Rio wanted to save on masks without saying that Reis' group was standing in the way to Rodania's docks at the same time that Helmut's fleet was on its way there for cutting of the girl's retreat, that the limited thing wasn't just the masks but the time the girls had for making their escape, something that Rio secured letting Reis go even if you insist in making it into a reason for calling Rio a retard. And the mask consumption of fighting Reis might certainly be worth it if he is taken down for sure, just in that case, because fighting Reis and wasting masks just for Reis to teleport away would be way more retarded than not fighting him, even more when fighting Reis would just prevent Rio from keeping Helmut's troops away from the ships the girls would need to use for escaping the city at the same time that it could have ended in Rio having have to take the extra burden and risk of fighting everyone at the same time for the most likely the maks consumption ending up being a waste. Taking care of the four men Reis had with him in Rodania doesn't take care of the other twenty Reis still had in stock plus the replacements that he has for the heavenly lions, the very reason he considers them just consumables. Letting go of a chance of taking care of all of Reis' pieces in a single battle could bave been a retarded thing, but deciding to not lose one's time with three or four small flies that Gouki can take care off with a hand tied to the back might even be smart when the rules make the quantity of people and things you can take care off very small and limited. You also mention Proxia and Duran obviuosly causing problems later again letting out of the matter a really important detail, if Rio needs to even care about those problems to begin with. Why should Rio care about Duran using his position as one of Proxia's allies for warring his neighbours more easily? That is a problem for those kingdoms not for Rio, not like Duran would ever manage to conquer all of the small kingdoms that stand between him and the Galarc kingdom in his lifetime either anyway, he isn't any kind of almighty conqueror, and how he disappeared from the scene completely is the best proof of him being just a background character Rio has no real need to concern himself with. Why should Rio care about Proxia destroying Beltram for example? That's Beltram's problem not Rio's, if he takes Celia's family out of the sinking ship he already did his part. Rio has no need or obligation of stopping anyone's conquest, there are busybodies like Satou from death march that go out of their way for stopping every ongoing war without needing to just for their selfsatisfaction, but Rio showed already he couldn't care less about the world going up in flames if he manages to put his loved ones out of the reach of the fire beforehand, I seriously doubt Rio would have protected Rodania from Helmut's army instead of just helping the girls to escape even if he hadn't been under the rules' effect, once Rio deemed protecting Rodania not a mean for protecting the girls he easily stopped caring about the city's loss after all. The inconsistent thing would be if Rio suddenly started to care about the world's love and peace and moves to achieve it, not the opposite. You mention Charles but he seriously was the most irrelevant character in all of the scenes you mentioned, none of the things he was ever involved in happened because of his decisions or he was ever a factor in them happening or not, he just spends his days ordered around by his father or used by Reis, he is a pawn instead of a bishop, rook or a horse. You say he needs to die so he can't do this or that when his death isn't an obsacle for the author to create a new character that does those things instead of Charles. Someone else could have lead the search for Christina while also happening to be under Reis' thumb like a lot of people close to Helmut, that someone else could have hit Celia too, the plan to attack Restoration wasn't decided by Charles either, he was just told to be a part of it literally the day before, and even if he followed Renji in a griphon someone else could have perfectly taken his role of being defeated by Sora before they realize it, this is of how little consecuence is Charles' life or death. And this isn't valid just for Charles but for everyone, killing someone so they can't cause problems in the future is simply useless when the author has an infinite supply of guys for causing those problems instead of that someone, unless Rio decides to kill every single person in the world but the girls there will always be someone that can cause this or that problem. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean with this that Charles, or anyone else should be left alive, I just mean to say that the point of them needing to die so they don't do this or that is useless in a situation where there are replacements. The last bits of this comment and the majority of what you say to Marco are just your usual biased ramblings too. You are not only discarding the chances of Reis managing to destroy the Beltram kingdom but also forgetting that there has already been examples of people letting everything behind, life as a noble included, for Rio's sake in the form of Gouki, Kayoko, Sayo and Komomo. Am I suppossed too to believe that the girls will stay unmoved before a Rio that doesn't regret or cares about in the slightest to have lost his humanity in the process of protecting them? A dream inside a dream. Not to say too that thinking a guy that hasn't minded to lose his humanity for the sake of those he loves among many other things isn't able to resolve himself to deal with some nobles for their sake if he has to or lacks backbone is at minimum farfetched. The bit about the adventurers from volume 12, that is just another example of Rio just not caring about what happens to anyone if the people he cares about aren't involved, not like letting those guys beaten unsconscious and alone in a forest where no one would come to their rescue if something like monsters of beasts attack them without caring about their fates can be called being soft or nice. Quote:
If I remember it right I think what you called twisting Rio's character was changing how willing to kill was Rio or not in different points of the story. I don't agree with that but I will wait to tell you why until you tell me if I remember right about your problem with the series and your reasons and becuase part of what I have just told Roberto was related to that part of Rio's character. Sorry, but I can't help you in regards to messaging in the forum, I don't use it much either, but instead of asking us you should try messaging any of the moderators, I think they should know how to help you.
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Last edited by jagt; 2023-03-09 at 17:34. |
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2023-03-09, 12:36
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Link #4526 | |||
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A lazy reader.
Join Date: Dec 2016
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One popular example would be Annos from Demon King Academy and Shadow from Eminence in the Shadows: I see people dissatisfied because no character poses a challenge to them. Roberto, you've already created an absolute expectation, one based on ignoring/rejecting important factors which have already been discussed —most important of all: time and the nature of the characters; not a disagreement, as you argumentation is just you constrasting everything with your expectation and venting your anger on Yuri and his protagonist—, on your own wish to have all the girls in the final scenario (an unrealistic preconception, imo), on your rejection of Rio and on your preferences for plot devices which you've previously said would make the story more enjoyable for you. And it is quite early to have made such an immutable expectation, as much as we may agree that the wait is tiresome... Quote:
Don't do it. Don't build a baseless scenario and get andry because of it. I am satisfied now. It makes me remember my days fighting on Twitter, and why I stopped doing it haha... No matter how hopeful you are, you can't expect to always be able to engage in sincere exchanges of ideas (without ad hominem attacks, association fallacies, and logic failures in general) regardless of the outcome, since one of the purposes of debating is to show the community the arguments of both sides and leave it to them to decide -and this is what made all this worthwhile-. Quote:
Our pychological tendencies don't change significantly with the passage of time, but the potency may vary. With our worldwide connectivity, it's easy to "fight" under whichever banner you come across... I make a point of this because, for example, I didn't particularly feel that part weak. But I do agree with Gouki and the girls' fight. It felt awkward to read the girls giving explanations to Lucci haha... The things is, Roberto: it's really easy and convenient to fault the author for any part that feels like weak writing, but we have to be able to entertain certain thoughts that might justify it (opposite opinions) and then we may come to realize whether it's actually weak writing or it's not. For example, that matter of the masks. In addition to what Jagt has argued, Rio was so preoccupied by the fact that they're limited, precious items that vanish because of rules which he doesn't fully comprehend and help him avoid the most severe consequence of all: forgetting who you are protecting. That's why he made the point that killing is off-limits, whether you like it or not. And I don't know what you guys think, but I find it kinf of awkward when protagonists kill left and right (or fairly easily) and fans cheer on them because they're badass and aren't "weak-willed". It feels edgy. But I do like that Rio's not opposed to it when necessary, as it'd be illogical. |
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2023-03-09, 13:06
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Link #4527 |
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Dragon King
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia
Age: 34
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It's also mentioned Volume 22, when Rio's helping the Restoration's forces get into the airship meant to help them evacuate before the Beltrum army could get to them, that killing the enemy soldiers would be seen as helping one side too much and would increase the burden on the mask more. When he stopped just using light bullets to hold the enemy back and started using them to attack them, and even killed some, the mask cracked more and was in greater danger of breaking, so he had the thought that to have the masks last longer, he has to avoid killing as much as possible too. It's true that if a transcendental helps out the interests of one side or individual too much, that transcendental would forget about the people he/she is trying to help. The mask is meant to prevent that. Let's not forget this.
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2023-03-09, 14:09
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Link #4528 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Spain
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About Rio, I personally like too that he isn't just willing to do what it is necessary but that he also puts a line, that he chooses to kill only when he is sure it will have a meaning instead of killing just because. The mercenary that captured Miharu died as a way of scaring the rest into surrendering and rescuing faster his victims. Lucius and Erika died because they were after him and after those he loved, becuase they really were a threat if left alone, the same reason why he also tried to kill Reis and Lucius' subordinates in volume 15, but guys like the adventurers he didn't kill in volume 12 that have no way of being a threat after their encounter and whose deaths have no meaning are a problem for the ones they come across next. I personally like Rio not being the same kind of justice fool or busybody that a lot of others are. He cares about his problems and those of the people he loves and that's enough, the problems of the world are for the world to take care of.
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Last edited by jagt; 2023-03-09 at 17:37. |
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2023-03-09, 20:39
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Link #4529 | |||
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Join Date: Sep 2016
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bro wft is wrong with you? are you drunk?, YOU are the one who believes RIO is going to marry a dozen women, a dozen women that he hardly considers friends. YOU are the one who wants and thinks that Rio is going to marry a dozen women, Rio the guy who died a virgin twice, and you say that I am the one who expects unreasonable things??????? my only expectation for rio's love life is a normal marriage with miharu, a happy and normal couple, that is my expectation, yours is a polyamorous marriage, between a shy guy/with low self-esteem and 15 women, and I am the who has unreasonable expectations?? bro you need to read your own comments before posting you lost your mind You expect that the virgin with more than 500 years of life, who is also too shy, insecure, has low self-esteem, who died a virgin twice, that got beaten by a loser named kota, you expect that man named Rio to take more than a dozen women as wives, all of them from different social classes, that he asks them to give up everything their kingdoms/companies/businesses etc? You expect all of the above and I'm the one he has unreasonable expectations???????? Quote:
I SWEAR I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING TO ME BRO, wutttttt? YOU are the one who says that there is going to be a harem ending, I know that this is not going to happen, Miharu is the only winner, and I am the one with unrealistic ideas???? I can't believe it Quote:
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Last edited by Roberto1; 2023-03-09 at 21:45. |
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2023-03-09, 21:32
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Link #4530 | |||||
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Those are not criticisms, those are small parts that you did not like, a true criticism goes way deeper, it does not stay in trivialities like the ones you just mentioned, who the hell cares if Erika convinced the peasants quickly or not? That has no relevance to the plot. That peasant garbage is not important, they are garbage, what does matter is why Rio does not kill reis when he can, that does have an importance for the plot, and that is worth questioning those small trivialities that you mention are not critics, they are details that you did not like and that's it, a real critic looks at the bottom of the matter Quote:
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2023-03-10, 00:33
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A lazy reader.
Join Date: Dec 2016
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As I have previously stated, quite clearly, my stance in regards to romance is that there'll indeed be polygamy, and I've given my arguments on why, without actually mentioning in which form —who, apart from Celia and Miharu, will be included—. That's one lie. And while expressing my stance, I pointed out why one of your main arguments was mistaken, that is, Rio telling Christina he doesn't want multiple wives. But that didn't matter to you, it seems. Not to mention our arguments on how Rio has indeed developed his character. Quote:
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*I clearly stated that I do not, but you ignored it. **You talked about what kind of position Rio'd have to find himself in, and since you couldn't imagine it —that is, Rio marrying Christina and becoming king and such—, the alternative you came up with was this one. And since you knew neither of them were possible, you argue that it will end with Miharu staying with Rio. Check your previous posts, again. ***You didn't disagree with this, you outright rejected our arguments about Rio's progress. You can see it clearly in your answer to my point about time inside the novel. Quote:
But the fact that you considered using "virgin" to "insult" Rio three times may be a glimpse to what kind of character you want Rio to be, what that so-called "backbone" you mention is. Quote:
We only have a general undestanding of the rules, yet you speak with so much confidence about what effect it will have, without even mentioning Jagt's argument in regards to this. And my point was: Rio doesn't know the extent of the effects and won't risk forgetting his people. "When you have something to say, say it": following JBP's advice will get me stuck here for a while haha... |
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2023-03-10, 03:27
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Link #4532 | ||||||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
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Hmm, can someone explain to me why you even think the vol 16 accursed conversation between Rio and Christina carries any weight in the harem vs monogamy discussion. I think we've already established how much Rio has grown from vol 1 to vol 23. Then we have this arc, since the memory loss started, it had also been quite likely the lowkey character growth arc of Rio. Rio 16 yo, said that he's not enthusiastic about polygamy, hence you conclude he's not gonna have a harem. Well, my friends, he also said he can't think about marriage right now, so by your logic he's gonna become a monk, period. In conclusion:
1/ his character is constantly developing, at the speed of a gamma ray burst, at that. 2/ said character went from distrustful -> cold with a bit of warm -> considering the girls precious -> wanting to be with them forever (in the middle of latest evolution,) it's really no stretch to think he may fall for all of them, I mean we can be sure he loves them, we just can't be sure romantic love is included in that. Of course we can't, Rio himself is getting to know his feelings and what romantic love is. Basically Rio feelings/personality wise is a fast growing chick, it makes no sense to judge his values before he fully matures, and the most stimulating trigger for his growth has been shown to be the girls and his feelings for them, so it's not farfetched to draw the conclusion that he, highly influenced by the feeling of treasuring and holding them all precious, will grow to think a harem is fine and normal as long as he can make them happy, because he wants to make them happy with his hands. Now aside from the accursed discussion of a 16 yo, is there a single evidence that points to Rio rejecting polygamy or accepting marriage in itself? It's not even part of his personality, the people who shout It's not a harem, it's not a harem just thought this will be monogamy after seeing that discussion and started seeing Rio as a character that reject polygamy, there is nothing in the story that points to that being part of his personality, oh and no JP values, we're talking Rio, the dragon king here not Satsuki. Now I'll ask something slightly off but, does Lizelotte seem like she still holds her JP monogamy beliefs to you. Quote:
But well that mostly has nothing to do with this novel. What I see as Kitayama twisting Rio's personality is not in Rio's actions but in the attitude Rio has towards Reiss mainly. Rio as I understand of him is a guy with his own individually cultivated sense of values and who has his priorities straight (first come the girls). See for example after he fought Erika in vol 18, Aishia went to check if the former was truly dead. When Erika attacked Garlark, Rio himself went to settle things with her, saying that she is dangerous and can't be kept alive. Rio's thinking pattern as I imagine it to be, would have led him to going to Erika himself to kill her for good had she not invaded Gregory territory right away and he learnt that she survived their encounter. Likewise in Reiss's case, after the man constantly targeted the people he loves Rio would have considered him someone he needs to keep in check and kill if need be. But no, we never got a single monologue of Rio about his thoughts on Reiss, or a convo between him and Aishia about Reiss being too dangerous to be kept alive. He just didn't care, the way I see it that's just Rio being too strong for Reiss to handle if he actively tried to hunt the latter, hence Kitayama opted to make Rio passive towards Reiss, which is not in line with Rio's personality. Then, my second problem is how Kitayama interferes way too much in Rio' actions. For example, let's go back to the killing point, aside from the vol 4 merc and Erika (even Takahisa would have killed her then and there,) whenever Rio is in a battle scene, it hasn't been properly stated that Rio killed or left someone a step from death, but Kitayama is so fast to say that Rio attacked with the intention to kill, aw shucks they lived through it again tho, with no notable injury to see, trust me tho, he attacked with the intention to kill. And while that doesn't mean there is a problem with Rio or with the plot or story, I just can't shake the feeling that Kitayama keeps hesitating whether to make Rio a guy that can kill or not, even tho Rio already established himself as a character that just does what he has to when he has to. Hence the way Kiatayama keeps writing Rio battle scenes, "hey, he didn't kill but look at him, he can do it whenever he wants, not that I will let him do it or let it happen... for now." Quote:
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Btw Roberto, I'm genuinely curious which I am after my 2 personalities have merged together, am I a brain dead fanboy or am I a smart critical thinker. Last edited by hihoperorin; 2023-03-10 at 03:54. |
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2023-03-10, 04:08
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Link #4533 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Spain
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Defend your division of "good or bad fans" all you want that your mistake is already there for everyone to see, and because I quoted your post even if you try to edit or erase it your epic fail will continue to be visible in my answer for everyone forever until this forum's servers die. First news that my critics needed your approaval for having their existence as such recognised, trolls certainly use to be arrogant, but you really are on your own level. And the reason why Rio didn't kill Reis is quite simple, the only two times Reis appeared in front of Rio he made sure they were times when Rio couldn't afford the second you say it would take him to kill him without risking the girls' lifes, not like anyone in the series accepts your excuses that killing Reis would take Rio just one second and just one mask, but a troll like you will never accept the weakness of the sorry excuses he came up for something. Preemptive mass slaughters just because of things that could never happen or that would never be of relevance to Rio if they happen and being active are two different things, not to say that you keep dodging the center of the matter in regards to Nidor and Duran, if Rio has any obligation or need to protect the world from them or not, and the answer to that is no, Rio couldn't be less obliged to carry the world on his shoulders so he just doesn't do it, Nidor and Duran aren't Rio's problem to deal with but the world's, if Rio were to continue to not take care of them the moment they become his problem or of someone he cares about while waiting for things to just solve themsleves magically until the last minune before losing the option of not moving then Rio would be a passive person in regards to Nidor and Duran, but something like that has never happened so you have no basis to call Rio passive in regards to Nidor and Duran. And lastly, your excuses for alleging weak writing are growing more farfetched by the day, if something is weak here is your excuse of the writing being weak because of your lie of Rio just needing a second or two for this or the other, because when someone needs to use such extreme absurds for making their point that is the best proof that could exist that the writing isn't as weak as they claim since it can take no problem normal logic and keep standing, and if denying that sorry excuse of yours is the better reason you can come up with for caling someone a fanboy then go for it, now I already know that being calling fanboy by you is a praise and a sign that I'm looking with proper eyes at what happens inside the books. Quote:
About Reis, I would say you are forgetting to take into account that Rio believed him death for the majority of the time that he knew of his existence, one can't resolve himself to hunt down someone they don't know if they are alive or not. Reis certainly attacked Rio's group in volume 12, but that could still be taken as them being getting dragged into Christina's matter, the first real attack came in volume 14 and Reis played death since then until the end of volume 21, and after that making sure the girls were safe and finding a way to break the rules took priority. If after the rules are broken Rio keeps postponing Reis I might agree with you in regards to him, but until now Reis didn't seem to have been given any kind of plot armor to me. I kind of agree with you about Reis being something that it is being reserved for later but for the time being I would say that it is being kind of well justified. About Rio's battles against humans, in my case I didn't feel any strangeness in that regard, everytime it was stated clearly that Rio avoided killing on purpose we were given a reason. Rio didn't kill in volume 5 because he didn't want Celia to feel back thinking that people had to die for her to make her escape, in volume 9 the Galarc kingdom would need to interrogate the assassins afterwards , in volume 12 he wanted to interrogate the adventurers about why theu targeted his group and Charles, Alfred and Rui needed to be alive in order to remove peacefully from the picture the soldiers accompanying them, in volume 15 even if Rio went easy on Silvie and her soldiers so the casualties couldn't be used against him later but when it came Lucius' subordinates Rio did everything he could with the few time he could stay away from Christina and Flora, in volume 18 Rio held back on the republic's soldiers in order to not give Erika more political ammo, in volume 22 it was the mask comsumption. Aside from those there would be the soldiers that Rio defeated before fighting Alfred and Rui, and in their case it was stated that what saved them was the luck of having companions that could heal them then and there.
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Last edited by jagt; 2023-03-10 at 08:40. |
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2023-03-10, 09:08
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Link #4534 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
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I feel like Roberto's rant about the whole no-pilygamy thing stems from him thinking the author cant write a true harem, if it is, I would like to introduce another series written by the same author:Miryoku skill de ikinari sekai saikyou shinkishi wo tsugu mono
english title:Suddenly the World's strongest with the charm skill (altho it seems to have been axed) fun fact: this is harem, yeah, I didnt mean fake one, real TRUE HAREM AND ECCHI, written by the SAME AUTHOR that you love to rant about in this thread, I may be wrong, but I think I did see you say the author dosen't have the balls to write a true harem, I would like to ask if the 'great' roberto-san has anything to say about "the author will never write harem ending" after seeing a book by the same author that has harem and ecchi(clearly in the synopsis lol), I'll end this part with this much since its getting off-topic. the main thing is, you might still "believe" author can't do harem ending for seirei even after seeing this. anyway, since you might use the "its a different series" excuse, I will just say its the same author as seirei, whats stopping him from giving this series a harem end then? you do know that its just been 1 year(in the story) after Vol 3 right? you're expecting someone to change from "I don't deserve anyone" to "I will marry all of them" in a span of one year, yeah no can't happen. Also, Rio Introduced the girls to his grandma and Ruri as family. his own monologue said that calling them friends was wrong during that scene, this happened in vol 17 btw(after your Vol 16 "Rio disllikes harem" stuff) and here you are going on about saying that they are barely friends after all these vols |
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2023-03-10, 15:47
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Link #4535 | ||||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
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Rio yeeted those knights in vol 12 with a storm and nobody ended up dead, not even a single one fell on their neck. In Erika republic's case, it makes little to no sense to care about diplomatic relations when they were fighting a small war against each other, but nothing would change from killing the cannon fodder soldiers so he might as well leave them be, just knock them out. In Celia's case I see no problem in the logic, in the first place, the goal is to rescue/retrieve Celia not to go on a rampage, in the fortress case I feel like Rio who made sports of Lucius in vol 7 should easily make the 3 stooges dead if he got serious, but he's no need to get serious, and no reason to use spirit arts. I won't go into post vol 20 events because under the rules, he should be keeping his interference to a minimum, obviously. Other than the vol 12 case, the rest seem natural to me from a scene standpoint. However, that's exactly why I feel like Kitayama always tries to put Rio in those sorts of situations, where he better not or can't kill, while adding sometimes how Rio went for the kill but the other side lucked out. It may be just me overthinking it tho. Quote:
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Except what Roberto means by active is nipping the arising problems in the bud, expecting Rio to conclude that he should kill Nidor or Doran is outrageous tho, it's not even clear what repercussions that will have, Rio's goal is to live in peace with the girls, not become an international fugitive. In the first place, Rio knows nothing; not his potential enemies, not anyone's movements, not even his current enemies movements or their motives nor does he think to collect information on them, or so is the point I was going to make before stopping, I mean how the heck is he supposed to collect info on Reiss's true identity or motive. I really hate it in novels tho, when a villain is trying to play chess, make plots and schemes and try to control moves and pieces and then the MC comes in absolutely oblivious to everything and miraculously make everything go astray. Then again, that's not what happens here, Reiss does get some results from his endeavors and when Rio thwarts him, it's usually in a contest of pure might, dumb Reiss for challenging Rio there. Roberto, I'm trying to understand your argument on Rio's passiveness but I'm finding it brittle, if there is something deeper to it, please do tell. Quote:
I really don't think the 1 year argument holds true. On the course of the vols that passed (1 -> 23) Rio has already had astronomical changes, he's like a few steps away from the harem mindset right now. If author can make him change from "this world is a rotten cesspool" to "I want to be with the girls forever" in 1 year, then nothing stops him from taking that further to harem mindset. Besides, Rio still has his dragon king mems, no matter what personality he had, he was an absolute being, the de facto ruler of the world, meanwhile Rio and Haruto mems are essentially a life of misery inflicted by others, something the dragon king should find foreign and unfamiliar, we could see an interesting chemistry take place between the current him and his dragon king mems. PS: in the fandom, there is a mistake in vol 11 summary, it doesn't matter much but it's been bugging me since I saw it. At the start of Hiroaki interlude, it says he was attending a party hosted by Liselotte Cretia, should be Lisette Gregory. I can't edit it as I don't have an account. Last edited by hihoperorin; 2023-03-11 at 12:23. |
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2023-03-24, 03:42
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Link #4539 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
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Q:精霊幻想記はまだまだ続きますか？
A:まだまだ続きますよ！！ 24巻の終わりか、25巻辺りからまた大きく物語が動き出すかもしれないので、どうぞお楽しみに……とだけ ! MTL translation:Q:"Is the Spirit Chronicles still continuing?" A: There will be more to come! The story may start moving again in a big way around the end of volume 24 or volume 25, so please look forward to it. ----------------------- something I found from discord, well from the translation, we *might* see a huge plot starting from vol 25(?), well, hope its memory recovery/demon war, but chances of both of them happening soon is very low. |
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2023-03-24, 20:28
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Link #4540 | |
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A lazy reader.
Join Date: Dec 2016
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The question seems a bit random to me, am I missing something? Anyway, we've already discussed this, but Yuri knows how impatient those who follow the story can be and still decided that it was necesary to slow the pacing a bit, so I say he's aware that our expectations will build up and that he can't mess it up. In my opinion, the current pacing seems natural enough and now it's a matter of waiting to see how these big events will unfold. |
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| fantasy, harem, isekai |
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