US Politics Thread (2021-24)

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Not to mention they will omit Trumps I’ll fated deal with the Taliban that led to this and pretend that the decision was entirely Biden’s. Nvm that he lacked much of a choice as a result of said deal. the attack by the isis wasn’t something either the us or the taliban foresaw too. US intelligence didn’t foresee it, so how is Biden supposed to know it would happen.

The lack of transition didn't help either.

[Jaden]

Biden didn't have to go through with Trump's deals, just like Trump didn't go through with Obama's deals.

I respect Biden for doing it, though. I had him pegged as a legislator who can't decide anything without first hearing from all the deep state "experts", who no doubt recommended against the withdrawal. So he did a presidential thing that the people wanted him to do, for once.

As the leader he has to take responsibility for the military failures, though I don't really put it on him. The president can only tell the generals we're withdrawing, then pray that it goes smoothly. I don't have any reason to think that it would've gone better under Trump.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Biden didn't have to go through with Trump's deals, just like Trump didn't go through with Obama's deals.

I respect Biden for doing it, though. I had him pegged as a legislator who can't decide anything without first hearing from all the deep state "experts", who no doubt recommended against the withdrawal. So he did a presidential thing that the people wanted him to do, for once.

As the leader he has to take responsibility for the military failures, though I don't really put it on him. The president can only tell the generals we're withdrawing, then pray that it goes smoothly. I don't have any reason to think that it would've gone better under Trump.

Problem was that the taliban did go through with the deal. Biden’s hands were tied. They invaded and the government we spent billions on didn’t even fight back. It is the failure of Bush, it’s the failure of Obama, it’s the failure of Trump, as well as the failure of Biden. They essentially had an unlimited budget to prepare the Afghans for this situation but failed to do so. They didn’t do so and this was the inevitable result. The US has no reason the save people who won’t even save themselves.

[The Green One]

So we just continue spending billions on an endless war unless every single Taliban is gunned downed to the last member and we spend the next 200 years constantly standing over their heads so they don't go right back to how they were the moment our backs are turned? I mean pick your poison here. What happened in reality now, or the hypothetical constant life and money drain of the Afgan war.

We can sit here safely away from what happened and nitpick and blast both sides and opinions about the matter or maybe we should stop and take a moment to consider that maybe there just wasn't any sort of good answer. Maybe just the best of bad choices.

Though to be fair what actually IS the best choice is going to be difficult to agree upon if not simply impossible.

Not that it won't stop both political parties from burning their own houses down just so the other side chokes to death on the smoke.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by The Green One

So we just continue spending billions on an endless war unless every single Taliban is gunned downed to the last member and we spend the next 200 years constantly standing over their heads so they don't go right back to how they were the moment our backs are turned? I mean pick your poison here. What happened in reality now, or the hypothetical constant life and money drain of the Afgan war.

We can sit here safely away from what happened and nitpick and blast both sides and opinions about the matter or maybe we should stop and take a moment to consider that maybe there just wasn't any sort of good answer. Maybe just the best of bad choices.

Though to be fair what actually IS the best choice is going to be difficult to agree upon if not simply impossible.

Not that it won't stop both political parties from burning their own houses down just so the other side chokes to death on the smoke.

Our country is doomed at this point if that is the state of our politics. We used to be innovators yet now our own enemy is purely ourselves. Sadly the president and congress have very little power. It is the parties that control their every action. We need to disband the RNC and the DNC.

[The Green One]

What we really need is for humanity to stop being amoral pricks to each other constantly, but we all know how likely THAT will ever happen.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by The Green One

What we really need is for humanity to stop being amoral pricks to each other constantly, but we all know how likely THAT will ever happen.

We have a better chance of seeing god. Lol.

I was lucky to be raised in a household that didn’t force political beliefs on me or my siblings. My parents allowed us to develop our own ideals. We all ended up with different leanings. But as a result most of us were just moderates with a specific leaning. We could debate each other and find common consensus with no bad blood. This could be considered a perfect world. Sadly many families require you to adopt their political ideals or you get cast out. This do or die mentality is ruining America.

[The Green One]

If you're not us, then you're them which means you're evil and wrong.

That's the mentality these days, and some people would sooner die then change.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by The Green One

If you're not us, then you're them which means you're evil and wrong.

That's the mentality these days, and some people would sooner die then change.

Exactly. My youngest brother’s fiancée is a cop. My other brothers wife is a niece of a cop who holds defund the police ideals mentality. My personal experiences is that there is blame on both sides that both sides refuse to address. At the very least there is still balance there. There is no longer any balance though in the US.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Biden didn't have to go through with Trump's deals, just like Trump didn't go through with Obama's deals.

I respect Biden for doing it, though. I had him pegged as a legislator who can't decide anything without first hearing from all the deep state "experts", who no doubt recommended against the withdrawal. So he did a presidential thing that the people wanted him to do, for once.

As the leader he has to take responsibility for the military failures, though I don't really put it on him. The president can only tell the generals we're withdrawing, then pray that it goes smoothly. I don't have any reason to think that it would've gone better under Trump.

It wasn't really about the deal. His choices were either withdraw or send a lot more men into the grinder in another "surge". Those were his options. American positions weren't tenable without that.

[ramlaen]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Not to mention they will omit Trumps I’ll fated deal with the Taliban that led to this and pretend that the decision was entirely Biden’s. Nvm that he lacked much of a choice as a result of said deal. the attack by the isis wasn’t something either the us or the taliban foresaw too. US intelligence didn’t foresee it, so how is Biden supposed to know it would happen.

Actually...
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...k-kabul-507481

Sticking to the withdrawl and finally ending the forever war is something Biden has done that I can absolutely support (though in the process they broke the agreement the Trump admin negotiated which led to the current crisis), but that doesn't mean I can't point out the way the Biden admin conducted the withdrawl was completely adrift and hamfisted.

[cyberdemon]

While I don’t argue that the withdrawal was poorly executed, 24 hour advanced notice during that chaotic situation isn’t much to plan on in concern to the isis. Personally I am more interested in what Biden will do in concern to the Americans and allies still stuck in Afghanistan.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

While I don’t argue that the withdrawal was poorly executed, 24 hour advanced notice during that chaotic situation isn’t much to plan on in concern to the isis. Personally I am more interested in what Biden will do in concern to the Americans and allies still stuck in Afghanistan.

IMO doing an sensible withdrawal was not an option, since there iwa too much profit being made out of this useless operation and no doubt there would have been internal sabotage that would prevented a complete withdrawal.

No doubt the media would grind Biden in the hopes of returning "just to save our allies" and again staying indefinitely. The repubs will grind Biden on this forever.

[cyberdemon]

Lmao! The conspiracy theorist run election audit in AZ not only proved Biden won but even got him more votes. And here I thought all the secrecy was them manipulating the data. Sadly the excuses we’ll hear next is likely that the “deep state” got to them.

Edit: can somebody please explain to me why Trump feels a need for an audit in Texas of all places?

[Key Board]

Biden won a few counties in Texas, and that's the point of contention for Trump.
It won't change the election tally, but if he can "prove" it was "rigged" he can sustain the conspiracy theory momentum long enough

His goal is to drag this momentum to the 2022 or 2024 elections.
It also helps him sustain his mob if federal tax fraud investigators come after him.

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[cyberdemon]

I think he is just desperate for a “win” even if it is rigged in his favor with a state that voted for him.

[ramlaen]

Originally Posted by Key Board

His goal is to drag this momentum to the 2022 or 2024 elections.

Who is 'he' in this case? Trump isn't running the AZ audit, which you seem to be confusing with a separate recount.

[The Green One]

Of course not, don't be silly. Clearly it magically started all by itself. Just to find the oh so shocking truth that the results are actually real. Whoops!

[cyberdemon]

Kinda ironic Trumps excuses for demanding his Twitter account be reinstated considering the general stance the gop have take regarding companies being allowed to reject customers like with cakes services rejecting a gay wedding request. That came back to bite him lol

[Key Board]

Spoiler:

On one hand he's encouraging republicans not to vote.
On the other hand, he's saying that a political solution is no longer possible, and it's time to overthrow the government
Well, maybe I was wrong about him wanting this drag this on to fuel the election momentum.

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