Anime = Cartoons?

[Pocari_Sweat]

From what I understand:

Anime = Japanese animation, which covers the whole spectrum from animes aimed at children like Pokemon, to mainstream shows like Naruto/Bleach, to late-night "otaku" material.

Cartoons on the other hand refer to the western 2D animated shows including Marvel comic adaptations and kid shows. On the other hand 3D animations are referred to often referred to as "animated feature films". Recent examples include Toy Story 3, How to Train Your Dragon and Avatar.

As for the point that anime = rip-off, no. It's a derivative or evolution of early western cartoons but is not a rip-off. Triple R's definitions of ripoff sums it up nicely. If anime was a ripoff of western cartoons, then every piece of entertainment in the past half a century would be a ripoff.

[Azumanga Davo]

Originally Posted by KyuuA4

There's nothing unique about their storytelling. Y'can pretty much port ANY story across the globe and work it into anime.

Let me know the character development of Astro Boy versus Mickey Mouse (not physical) and let me know if you change your mind.

[NoemiChan]

Cartoons is a general term.

Anime is a category of the general term.....

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by acejem

As for the point that anime = rip-off, no. It's a derivative or evolution of early western cartoons but is not a rip-off. Triple R's definitions of ripoff sums it up nicely. If anime was a ripoff of western cartoons, then every piece of entertainment in the past half a century would be a ripoff.

Fixed that for you.

Nothing new under the sun. People take ideas and inspiration from everything in the world around them, and that includes other people's ideas. If people didn't share ideas we'd never get anywhere. If Tezuka "ripped off" Disney, then did later mangaka and anime producers rip off Tezuka? Wouldn't modern animesque Western animation be "ripping off" Japanese animation? For that matter, didn't Disney "rip off" the story of Snow White, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, etc. etc.?

tl;dr Tezuka was inspired by Disney, so what?

I've seen and read various bitching towards any attempt of Westerners emulating anime -- see the likes of Code Lyoko, Totally Spies, and the like. Avatar has been the best out of this group. The Sub vs Dub debate had been littered with argument against any Western modification of anime; and that was silly.

I don't quite see how this is relevant to the discussion, but if it's silly to complain about Western animations being inspired by Japanese, then it's equally silly to take jabs at the Western inspirations for Japanese animation.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Raiga

Fixed that for you.

Nothing new under the sun.

I don't agree with this.

There is such a thing as originality. Sometimes something new does occur under the sun.

Every cliche or trope had a starting point; an originator of sorts. Some of these are fairly recent - comic book super heroes, for example, haven't been around that long when measured over the course of human history.


However, there's certainly nothing wrong with an artist taking inspiration from the works of other artists, and that's the main point for this thread's purposes.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by genjichan

Cartoons is a general term.

Anime is a category of the general term.....

Cartoon is a catergory of the general term animation.

[Ceci-chan]

I sometimes use "anime" and "cartoon" interchangeably in conversation, though mostly I refer to it as "animation." It covers all the bases that way. :P

I think anime = cartoon, when you look at where the term "anime" is derived from in French. Plus, there's the Gundam ZZ song, "Anime Ja Nai!," which I've seen translated as "It's not a cartoon!" (though that may also be just the translation I have of the song lyrics).

I've seen some fans get really offended, though, if someone calls their favorite Japanese animation a "cartoon," and will rudely correct the speaker that it's called "anime."

[Almazluverdis3]

I believe that anime is too deep in to be a sub-genre. It's completely different from cartoons.
So anime is not a rip-off.

[ChainLegacy]

Even in America, cartoons aren't always for kids. Family Guy, King of the Hill, Bevis and Butthead all come to mind as shows that not only aren't for children but probably wouldn't even be very appropriate for children to watch. The distinction between cartoons and anime is pointless. Cartoons are simply the American term for animated television/movies, anime therefore is Japanese cartoons.

Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3

I believe that anime is too deep in to be a sub-genre. It's completely different from cartoons.
So anime is not a rip-off.

I don't think anyone believes it to be a rip off. What's being disputed is your assertion that they are 'too deep' (what exactly does that even mean? ). The only truly telling difference is that anime is from Japan.

[GundamFan0083]

Wow, a little digging with google and I found that anime and cartoons are NOT the same thing.

A Cartoon is defined as:

n.

1. a.A drawing depicting a humorous situation, often accompanied by a caption.
b.A drawing representing current public figures or issues symbolically and often satirically: a political cartoon.

2.A preliminary sketch similar in size to the work, such as a fresco, that is to be copied from it.

3.An animated cartoon.

4.A comic strip.

5.A ridiculously oversimplified or stereotypical representation: criticized the actor's portrayal of Jefferson as a historically inaccurate cartoon.


Anime is defined as:

n.
A style of animation developed in Japan, characterized by stylized colorful art and often adult themes.

Anime is short for animation which is a general description for all Japanese animated productions.
Cartoons are strictly satire (usually political) and/or animated comedy shows.
Therefore, it is clear that there ARE Japanese cartoons which are anime (Shin Chan, Fooly Cooly, and other comedy shows), but also there are clearly anime which are NOT cartoons (Ghost in the Shell, Gundam, Macross, Code Geass, Neon Genesis Evangelion, etc.).

[ChainLegacy]

By that definition, super hero animated shows are not cartoons. Which is completely against the classic Saturday morning cartoons which usually included super hero shows. I don't think that definition is very accurate at all.

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't agree with this.

There is such a thing as originality. Sometimes something new does occur under the sun.

Every cliche or trope had a starting point; an originator of sorts. Some of these are fairly recent - comic book super heroes, for example, haven't been around that long when measured over the course of human history.

Comic book superheroes maybe, but superhumans have a long history and the idea isn't really new. Remember that ancient Greek guy? His powers were super-strength and nigh-invulnerability. Killed all sorts of mythical supervillians, like the Nemean lion and the Hydra; heck, he even had a tragic origin story.

Or how about that famous Middle-Eastern superhero? You may have heard of him. Transmutation and healing abilities. Some even said he could walk on water.

I worded it pretty bluntly before, but my point wasn't to belittle originality; I was simply saying that no ideas are produced in a void. Anything ostensibly "new" was inspired by something; not necessarily someone else's idea, but it could also be inspired by a personal experience, or observations of nature, or a conversation. If you take a baby and stick them in a dark room for their entire lives they're never going to produce any ideas because they have nothing to draw from.

Back to the topic at hand... a dictionary definition is just something one person wrote. You check with another dictionary and it's probably going to say something a little different; maybe significantly different. In the end, the language is determined by the people who use it, and if you want to classify anime as being an animated cartoon (definition three from the Answers.com definition), then I guess it is. If you don't, then I guess it isn't.

Incidentally, Dictionary.com defines "animated cartoon" as being any sequence of drawings that look like they are moving.

[Kafriel]

Remember that ancient Greek guy? His powers were super-strength and nigh-invulnerability. Killed all sorts of mythical supervillians, like the Nemean lion and the Hydra; heck, he even had a tragic origin story.

You can't really call Heracles a superhero, he is a part of mythology. Even in the Disney cartoon of 'Hercules', he was a normal hero.

I was simply saying that no ideas are produced in a void.

a shepherd once went over to the mountain and left some bread and cheese over in his hut; when he returned, he discovered blue cheese...similarly, many theories on electromagnetism were initiated by chance events of certain ores being used in certain conditions, these ideas are the very essence of original.

it could also be inspired by a personal experience, or observations of nature, or a conversation.

Am I missing your point? You're pretty much giving the answer yourself...these things are nothing but that, until they are used for something, at which point in time they become something new...otherwise it's like saying that electricity existed ever since thunder and lightning could be formed; the reactions took place, it's just that nobody could understand and replicate them.

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

You can't really call Heracles a superhero, he is a part of mythology.

So? Superheroes are part of our modern mythology.

Even in the Disney cartoon of 'Hercules', he was a normal hero.

... normal? He has superhuman powers and he saves the world. Are there requirements for being a "superhero" that I'm missing here?

a shepherd once went over to the mountain and left some bread and cheese over in his hut; when he returned, he discovered blue cheese...similarly, many theories on electromagnetism were initiated by chance events of certain ores being used in certain conditions, these ideas are the very essence of original.

I said no ideas are produced in a void. How is having cheese and a mountain a void? Doesn't the shepherd owe something to the person who invented cheese and the bacteria that turned the cheese into blue cheese? How is that idea completely his own?

Am I missing your point?

Yes

You're pretty much giving the answer yourself...these things are nothing but that, until they are used for something, at which point in time they become something new...otherwise it's like saying that electricity existed ever since thunder and lightning could be formed;

Except electricity has existed before humans learned about it; it's existed since the 4 fundamental forces differentiated themselves.

the reactions took place, it's just that nobody could understand and replicate them.

But humans didn't invent electricity out of nowhere.

In essence what I mean is: what most people consider "originality" is really just taking something that already exists and doing something different with it. Nothing wrong with that. Just saying that it's silly to complain or make accusations that anime copied off of western cartoons or vice versa, because everything is inspired by something.

[solomon]

Anime is ANIMATION like all other animated productions in any other country. Don't get bogged down in stupid semantics.

Some American non-anime Animation is for wide age groups and some are for adults. Just like anime.

Really cartoons are only comedic shows in my mind.

[C.A.]

As an art student studying animation art, I'll give an artistic perspective.

For a start, Aristotle states that every form of art is an imitation, a mimesis of nature, an endless process in the pursuit of perfection. Even the earliest form of art known to us, cave paintings, were not original, cavemen drew pictures of animals and events they encounter. Ancient myths and stories, they were inspired by reality, twisted and distorted to be told in various context. Art, even animation, is a form of imitation, every form of narrative has to draw ideas from various sources to become its own narrative.

To animators, be it Japanese anime, American animated cartoons, Russian stop motion, Czech puppet animation, all of them are under the same time based medium of animation.

Animation is anything that uses the human eye's persistence of vision to create an illusion of movement on screen. It is also a medium for narrative telling and narrative is always accompanied by target audience, not everyone is interested in watching everything.