Have visual novels taken over plain ones?

[Irenicus]

[In between classes]

1) Visual media has been an information revolution for the world, for better or for worse.

2) Visual novels, however, make up a ridiculously small, tail-end, branch-side edge of this massive field. It will be very unlikely to ever overtake books in terms of popularity as a form of media. The OP will not find his salvation in that particular medium.

3) Asking friends for feedback doesn't work unless certain very important things were discussed between the two of you beforehand. You need a special kind of professionalism to honestly, ruthlessly critique a friend's work (or you just simply lack empathy in which case keep away from me you filthy sociopath). If they don't like your work, the best people usually say is a vague noncommittal comment. Even if they do, they might not be so inclined to genuinely approach your work critically. If you want criticisms, *demand* it. Or seek out groups that intentionally seek to share it (i.e. writer groups -- just make sure never to get caught in the silly tempest-in-a-teapot dramas that pervade small communities of close-knit individuals, online or otherwise).

It is deadly of a writer to assume that his reader is stupid, non-readerly because his or her response is shallow. He or she might have thought much more about it than he wants to -- or could, remember that people are generally worse at speaking their mind than, well, thinking it out -- reveal. Or he or she is just not sufficiently committed to your "hobby." People also don't usually read things others give them by hand with much interest. If you're actually good, why aren't you published? (The obvious answer is not yet 'cause I'm getting there, but do your friends care about you so much that they'll help you get there?).

4) The problem with the "decline" of books is hardly limited to new aspiring writers. That "despair" is gripping the entire industry and it is not pleasant. Many adapt by adapting new approaches to technology. Do people actually read less these days, or is it simply that they are reading differently? If so, how would you reach out to that new paradigm? Actually, should you? Or should you concentrate on writing the best writing you could write and leave the rest to the Fates?

Questions, questions. If I have the answer I'd be rich by now as well.

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Only the hardcore VN fans tend to play all five routes that are necessary to understand the story.

Hey now. As you probably remember I played all routes just to get there and I'm no VN hardcore fan. Frankly, the near utter lack of availibility in English hampers the media's chances in the Western world quite terribly, and the rest...I'm just not all that interested. Ever17 was a well-executed thriller that utilized the conventions of the VN medium for its own storytelling purpose. Did Key's popular works ever approach such creativity?

[leaves for class]

[FateAnomaly]

I think if the story appeals to the person, it doesn't really matters what form it takes. Every media have their supporters. Also i doubt anyone strictly only reads a particular form of book.
So either you are showing your stories to the wrong target audience or the stories itself is uninteresting, no offense intended.

[Chimuts]

According to my opinion, it's about their tastes. Some people enjoy reading books more and others enjoy reading VN more.
Some advantages that VNs have are artworks and languages. People tend to be more motivated when a good story comes with a good artwork. Then comes languages. the languages used in VNs are usually simpler and easier to understand than that used in Novels (most VNs I read is like this).
But books also has its own advantages. While the languages used tend to be deeper and more difficult to understand, they can be used to extend your vocabularies. Carrying a book around is also easier than carrying a laptop around in case you want to read your Novels outside.
Trying to answer your questions :
A) Yes they tend to use what you call "less artistic", or in other words simpler language. As we know, many VNs that are in english are actually translated from japanese, and most of the time is fan made. We can't really expect them to use artistic english in their translation all the time, since getting it translated to english is already a lot of work. Some VNs may have the use of artistic english though.
B)Artworks are not necessarily required to be "for fan service", although many VNs nowadays include them.
C)This is another advantage that VNs have. We can choose which route to take and see different stories relative to each route.

I don't think VNs are going to replace Books for now, besides I prefer books for it trains your imagination and language skills.

[roriconfan]

So from what I can figure out with all the posts so far...

1) The story must be offered through a first person view
2) Descriptions of areas and people should be kept at minimal and offered through images.
3) Different paths are not really making a VN better than linear stories.
4) Internal monologues are really helping to build atmosphere.
5) Keeping the text simple in the words it uses makes it harder to confuse and tire the reader
6) Sex is not needed if the story is good but good visuals are helping out a lot.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

People also don't usually read things others give them by hand with much interest. If you're actually good, why aren't you published? (The obvious answer is not yet 'cause I'm getting there, but do your friends care about you so much that they'll help you get there?).

I'd actually say amateur VN creators have it a lot harder than amateur authors. There's not a lot preventing an amateur author from producing a professional quality work aside from lack of access to professional editors and such. Amateur VN creators, however, are going up against commercial projects that have professional art and sound production teams.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

4) The problem with the "decline" of books is hardly limited to new aspiring writers. That "despair" is gripping the entire industry and it is not pleasant. Many adapt by adapting new approaches to technology. Do people actually read less these days, or is it simply that they are reading differently? If so, how would you reach out to that new paradigm? Actually, should you? Or should you concentrate on writing the best writing you could write and leave the rest to the Fates?

Speaking on a personal level, I think one of the reasons I don't read a lot of books is because I consume more serialized media than media that requires a "lump sum" time investment (this is also the reason I watch more new anime than old anime). I still consume some "lump sum" commitment media across a variety of formats, but I'm a lot pickier about my choices with such media.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Hey now. As you probably remember I played all routes just to get there and I'm no VN hardcore fan.

Whoops, I actually forgot about you - most of the people I've gotten to try Ever 17 are people I know in real life. And yeah, "hardcore VN fans" was a poor choice of words. I have noticed, however, that of the people I've suggested the game to, the ones who have some experience with playing VNs for reasons other than porn tend to be better about actually finishing the game. It actually is a fairly substantial time commitment.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Frankly, the near utter lack of availibility in English hampers the media's chances in the Western world quite terribly, and the rest...I'm just not all that interested. Ever17 was a well-executed thriller that utilized the conventions of the VN medium for its own storytelling purpose. Did Key's popular works ever approach such creativity?

I don't suppose that the just released English patch for this catches your interest? It's definitely on my "to try" list, although I need to actually get my hands on it first.

Key is well known for popularizing certain story conventions for utsuge ("crying games"), but I'm not aware of them doing anything really creative with the VN format. Although the "lights" metaphor in Clannad makes more sense in game form since you earn them for completing routes.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I'd actually say amateur VN creators have it a lot harder than amateur authors. There's not a lot preventing an amateur author from producing a professional quality work aside from lack of access to professional editors and such. Amateur VN creators, however, are going up against commercial projects that have professional art and sound production teams.

Purely anecdotal so probably not too accurate, but I have a friend who likes VNs so much he wanted to make one. He posted about it on 4chan and got together a production team within a day or two. I'm sure he just got lucky, though

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Speaking on a personal level, I think one of the reasons I don't read a lot of books is because I consume more serialized media than media that requires a "lump sum" time investment (this is also the reason I watch more new anime than old anime). I still consume some "lump sum" commitment media across a variety of formats, but I'm a lot pickier about my choices with such media.

I tend to go through phases of both, not sure why I switch off. I sometimes like watching old anime so I can watch all the episodes in a row, though I sometimes prefer the weekly format. Though I have to ask - aren't both books and VN in the same category? I thought they both were kind of lump sum-ish.