Utawarerumono Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[Flame-X]

Holy Shit This Ep Rocked!! O_o

with the pace the anime is going, im sure they can end it good

[Newprimus]

Well, all the Kuuya-haters got their wish, sort of.

[zalas]

A fairly decent portrayal, but the fact that Urutoriy just

Spoiler for episode 24:

plain forgot about Kamyu seems a bit fishy. In the game, Kamyu is turned first and Urutoriy uses teleportation to get everyone out of there before Mutsumi called down the Amaterasu beam, not to mention warning everyone in Kunnekamun to get the heck out of there.

At least it manages to keep the general pace and atmosphere well, unlike the complaints I'm hearing about Tsukaima 11. Hehe.
Oh, and minor trivia: The word "Kunnekamun" was probably constructed from 'kunne', meaning black/night in Ainu, and 'kamun', which was probably some form of 'kamuy', meaning deity in Ainu.

[mikemil828]

Originally Posted by zalas

A fairly decent portrayal, but the fact that Urutoriy just

Spoiler for episode 24:

plain forgot about Kamyu seems a bit fishy. In the game, Kamyu is turned first and Urutoriy uses teleportation to get everyone out of there before Mutsumi called down the Amaterasu beam, not to mention warning everyone in Kunnekamun to get the heck out of there.

Spoiler:

Could possibly be explained by the fact that Dii prevented Genji and Kuuya from being teleported out, and he probably stopped Kamyu from going out as well

[Renegade334]

One thing that should be interested to know is that Hakuoro is developing control of his beast form since he started talking before killing Hien and was was panting after doing so - hinting to the fact that Hakuoro is regaining what he has lost. The fact that the frequency of his transformation has increased can also explain why he can now have a certain degree of conrol on his true nature - especially since he is in a pretty stressful/angsty environment quite auspicious for his anger to seize him and trigger the metamorphosis.

As for Kamyuu's presence, knowing that Dii knew that Kamyuu contained Mutsumi's essence, it isn't surprising if Dii prevented her from departing with the rest of the group. After all, Dii was raising his hand when Urutorii cast her spell, so it's possible that he pilfered with Urutorii's magic to keep Kamyuu out of the teleportation field's influence.

...Something else to notice is that Onkamiyaryuu are capable of telepathy or something close seeing how Urutorii conversed with Hakuoro - and she wasn't moving her lips so it must logically be mind communication.

On the other side, people have been wondering why Mutsumi chose to go with Dii, who's clearly a bad guy -

Spoiler:

The answer sorta lies in the last minutes of the episode - she wonders out loud why Hakuoro didn't choose her.
She refers to an incident in the past, which should be shown at least in the next episode, where Hakuoro/Iceman chose someone else over Mutsumi, effectively wounding her love for her father. In other words, she might still be resentful towards Iceman-Hakuoro, and she opts to follow someone who bears the essence of her true father but hasn't 'betrayed' her, meaning: Dii.

Now, let's make this clear (this is a minor spoiler since it's from the episode itself), Hakuoro and Dii both contain something that is Mutsumi's father - which means that she could have obeyed either of them. However, since Hakuoro 'betrayed' her in his past life, she chose to go with the 'vessel' that still contains her father's essence but didn't betray her - Dii. So that means that even if she fights Hakuoro, she's still obeying her father (or more exactly her father's other half), Dii.

And for those who'd be asking, Kuuya is now officially out of the picture. She's alive but she's completely catatonic - and the way she was making inarticulate sounds foreshadows her future state of mind. The intense trauma at seeing Genjimaru's shredded body has crippled her mind. Completely. Think of Kamille Bidan's pyschotic state at the end of Zeta Gundam, and you'll know what I mean. But at a slightly worse degree.

[zalas]

Originally Posted by mikemil828

Spoiler:

Could possibly be explained by the fact that Dii prevented Genji and Kuuya from being teleported out, and he probably stopped Kamyu from going out as well

Spoiler:

The one thing that didn't really make sense was that you don't see Kamyu after the anti-teleport bubble disappears. Wouldn't you think that Dii would be able to keep Kamyu in place?

[Zaris]

Episode 24 Synopsis/Screencaps

Comments later. It's 4am, damn!

[Ichy]

10/10 after watching the RaW Version
This Episode was great. Dii is awesome ^^

Spoiler for Dii:

What he did too Genjimaru was natsy Sure he is no Character from Elfen Lied? I was looking for vectors in this Szene.

Spoiler for Kamyu:

So even Hakuoros Childs are that Powerful
And what happens too kamyu? Will she ever come back?

[Deathkillz]

...dii makes zombies? O.o
dii turned kamyu into her true form??
dii has the demon inside him?? (as seen behind him before he kills genjimaru)
who the heck is Mutsumi??
genjimaru got blown away O.o that got me close to tears...
Kuuya lost her santity??
wht kind of ep is this?? its insane...turns everything upside down...soo many questions...imo i give it 20/10!!

[Flame-X]

kuuya is in a complete mental breakdown. in the game version, kuuya mental state is reduced to a toddler's mind due to the trauma she experienced.
For more questions like who mutsumi is... then this thread should com in handy ^^ http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31739

[Renegade334]

Okay...let's try not to spoil overmuch. Better yet, let's try not to spoil at all.

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

...dii makes zombies? O.o

Ain't surprising. He did the same thing for Niwe/Yue but this time he added his little jab at Hakuoro by adding that mind-control mask.

dii turned kamyu into her true form??
&
who the heck is Mutsumi??

True form? I can't say so - remember when Hakuoro found Kamyuu on the lake's shore after she bit Aruruu? Kamyuu said that "her wings were black because she inherited the Ancestor's blood."
"Blood" here has obviously a greater meaning than that - by inheritance she means more than the normal physical attributes inherited through genetical patrimony. Rather, and it's quite easy to figure out, it's more about spiritual essence or whatnot.

The essence of a powerful and mysterious individual (Mutsumi - the black-winged girl) buried within a living person...doesn't that remind you of Hakuoro and the beast within him?
If you compare both cases, well, you can only get to the conclusion that they're suffering from the same predicament.

dii has the demon inside him?? (as seen behind him before he kills genjimaru)

...Obviously, although it's more complicated than that - but since Mutsumi both refers to Hakuoro (when she flew off with Dii) and Dii as otou-sama, one can only conclude that both Dii and Hakuoro are the same.
I'm evasive here because I can't spoil too much - even the most basic explanation already offers too much insight in the UM mysteries. Next ep should suffice to dispel your confusion...hopefully (two eps left...with 50% required for action).

Kuuya lost her santity??

She was making inarticulate sounds when Hakuoro carried her off to safety. Yes, she's completely lost it. Completely catatonic/psychotic.

She lost everything - Kunnekamun, Hien and Hauenkua, was betrayed by those two and had to see the last person who was truly faithful to her die in front of her eyes. The only thing she has left is Sakuya but the trauma induced by the sight of Genjimaru's innards strewn across the floor was enough to send her mind in an abyss of horror and despair. In other words, she was punished in the worst way possible.

wht kind of ep is this?? its insane...turns everything upside down...soo many questions...imo i give it 20/10!!

It's the deep breath before the plunge. No, sorry, it's the momentum taken for the said plunge. The things set into motion come essentially from Dii. The meeting between him and Hakuoro is unmistakably the stepping stone for a cascading effect that should trigger a lot of things having to do with Hakuoro. By the time Dii informed Niwe/Yue that Hakuoro was the 'best of beasts to hunt' (okay, you must come to that conclusion yourself first), it became a certitude that Dii was aware of Hakuoro's true nature - and most possibly his past.

A meeting between someone who's lost his memories and another individual who does know can only lead to groundbreaking development...especially since Hakuoro met Dii for the first time after he's lost his memories.

Originally Posted by zalas

Oh, and minor trivia: The word "Kunnekamun" was probably constructed from 'kunne', meaning black/night in Ainu, and 'kamun', which was probably some form of 'kamuy', meaning deity in Ainu.

Wouldn't be surprising and extremely ironic in regards to certain truths behind UM's deities and individuals...if you know what I mean.

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by Clamp-X

kuuya is in a complete mental breakdown. in the game version, kuuya mental state is reduced to a toddler's mind due to the trauma she experienced.
For more questions like who mutsumi is... then this thread should com in handy ^^ http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31739

So she's won't be a part of Hakuoro's harem?

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Nvis

So she's won't be a part of Hakuoro's harem?

i guess not...unless hakuoro likes crazy girls
but imo i feel sorry for kuuya...the way she squeeled while being carried off just stabbs at my heart

@Renegade334 ~ you are the man thx for the explinations

[Zaris]

Afternoon.

Not only is episode 24 one of the few well-animated episodes I've seen, it's completely original too, with no recycled footage whatsoever (unless you're getting tired of closeups of Dii's eyes). Furthermore, the CG (and believe me, it took me several passes to notice) blends perfectly with the scenes, or at least blends in a way that you can't really complain about. So yes, high scores for presentation.

Spoiler for scenes that were done well:

Hakuoro vs. Hauenkua and Hein. Definately has that speed reminiscent to EVA-01 vs. the third angel from Neon Genesis Evangelion, episode 2. In NGE, almost all the mech confrontations were annoyingly slow or full of chatter and panning images with the exception of like two or three. Here, the Utawarerumono animators totally didn't slack off. Punching, tossing, jabbing, stabbing. The flow of the carnage just didn't stop and had me at the edge of my seat the entire time. Hakuoro's new voice definately added to the effect. What really grips me is Hauenkua's untimely end. It ended exactly the way I wanted it. He's a mess, his arms have been ripped apart, his body deteriorated. But louder and more gleefully does he laugh, and it enrages Hakuoro even futher. Hauenkua maintained his characteristic evil to the bitter end. Bravo.

Confrontation with Kuuya (pre-battle). This is a classic framing of characters that stems as far back as Battleship Potemkin (old movie, I doubt half of you people have seen it). You've got characters in a position of power at the top of the steps, the people with the disadvantage at the bottom. Staircases have always been a means in TV and cinema to indicate who has the right of power over others, making one seem in a more defined position than the ones below him/her. But let's talk about the animation - and there was plenty of it. Subtle, yes. But I can't tell you how many times in anime where all I've seen are panning still images and talking heads. Kuuya's wailing of the arms, Eruruu being stopped by Hakuoro, the deployment of the window spotlight giving light and shade to Kuuya's (and eventually, Dii's) body. All of it was executed well. And if you didn't understand a clue as to what they were saying, their individual movements made it so that the scene wouldn't bore you. You can tell they're trying to say something, that someone was mad. Good cinema is being able to understand 50-70% of the contents without the audio.

Now for the stuff that didn't work.

Spoiler for ugh:

As I mentioned at the bottom of my synopsis, the scene with the undead left me with a little bit of frustration.

Originally Posted by myself lol

It was pretty much slapped in there for no apparent reason, and nothing was explained of it by the end of the show. Episode 24 is awfully late in the series to be having unresolved mysteries... in all the times we've seen undead (episodes 14, 15, 20, and 24), we don't learn anything about them other than who makes them (and we figured out who at #14). Simply put, never adding clues or hints to answer mysteries frustrates the audience, and it certainly frustrates me. The time for ambiguity is over.

Here I was trying to indicate that there's a difference between having a mystery slowly being revealed over time and having a mystery remain a mystery for extended periods. The undead is a mystery that has remained a mystery with no new answers whatsoever. It would've been best if they were never added at all - and Hakuoro and his gang would have just fought ordinary Kunnekamun soldiers instead. If that couldn't happen, then at least have Dii say SOMETHING about them, anything. Because as it stands, it's just another lame plot device.

And please, Deathkillz! They prefer to be called the living-impaired. = P

The pace of the story has picked up. No extra second was wasted in slowing down the telling of the plot, and the length of action and emotional impact was sufficiently precise. It's a gibberish episode because it closes a few storylines (and opens new ones), and it's an action episode because Dii, the everpresent antagonist, finally has more than two minutes of screentime. It's also a pretty bloody episode - Avu Kamu and man alike. But we kinda knew that Utawarerumono is a messy show to begin with.

10/10

Spoiler for comparative to the game:

Some things were done differently as compared to the game, but I think most of the stuff suits the anime well than if it had been the original content. We had established from episode 20 that Eruruu and Kuuya share a bond. Now, when Dii transported the people in the game, it was everyone. But here, it was just our key characters, and it worked out well. Nobody to interupt with the usual "Ani-ja!" lol

Less is more.

Mutsumi's presentation wasn't as glamorous as I thought, and there was a lot less umph to her powers. By now, we've studied the opening of the show frame by frame and we sense that she's much more capable. A shockwave that envelops an entire face of the planet has been associated with Mutsumi, but here all she does is blow up the castle (not even! just a side). Mutsumi was a bit of a let-down this episode, but she's not something you should dismiss - because she can still kick our asses.

Something about Kuuya disturbed me greatly at the end before the credits rolled. It was probably the sound of her voice. I've met people with Autism before, but they don't sound anything like her. She definately begins to sound odd towards the end (sucks to wake up to your pal liquifying), and I think works in a gross way.

So with all the side stories done away with, all that remains is Hakuoro, Dii, and Mutsumi. But we still need to examine many things that the episode has brought out - Urutorii's secret knowledge of Hakuoro, her relationship to Dii, Kamyu's background and her secrets, the final result of Kuuya, and the impact of all of the above to our heroes - who unfortunately missed everything!

There's also the nature of the contract that's worth delving into and speculating. Furthermore, Hakuoro no longer transforms out of his supernatural nature and ends up unconscious or confused. He knows who he is. And personally, I am more interested to see how knowledge of his being will affect his relationship with Eruruu, who doesn't know that he knows that she knows.

[Jinsoo]

All I can say is...HOLY CRAP DX

Spoiler for OMGDON'TLOOK:

I still don't like the fact that they killed of Genjimaru T-T He was coooool D;

[Cardiac Glycoside]

So from the looks of the screens, Episode 24 is like Episode 15 wrought large:

Spoiler:

Before, the bulk of the Tusukuru army met the bulk of Shikeripetim army. The situation is reversed since Tusukuru + the rest of the world is invading Kunnekamun. Nevertheless, "decisive final battle" is where the game is.

This time, the undead cover a battlefield rather than an antechamber.

Again, Hakuoro finds himself with an elite ally (Genjimaru) and Eruruu in the enemy ruler's throne room.

Again, the enemy ruler is standing in a superior position to Hakuoro. However, this time, she has a much bigger and scarier weapon.

Again, Hakuoro is stupid enough to try to fight back with only his tiny little fan, and again an Evenkuruga lends him a hand when his little fan is knocked out--again.

Hakuoro once again goes GODZILLA MODE and the effect is messier and more animated.

Dii is around again, but this time makes a bigger mess.

Once again, someone is turned into giblets.

The capital is destroyed again, but this time in such a catastrophic fashion that no one can emulate.

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

i guess not...unless hakuoro likes crazy girls

Crazy people are fun to mess with. He could have Kurou dress up as Genjimaru and sneak up on her and scare her. Or if he doesn't enjoy her befuddled company, he can always have her be Kamyu's replacement for the Spoiled Little Sisters trio... well, now it would be a Spoiled Little Sisters Duo + Raving ex-Empress. Or he could build a model of Kunnekamun's castle and jump on it and smash it--

Yes, I'm evil.

[Darklightz]

Wow! This episode was intense! Well I"m certainly happy that Kuuya's reign of terror is over.

I still don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish with his zombies.Or maybe it's just a side project?Come to think of it I don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish at all.He schemes and plots but with no specific target(that we know of).Sure he has interest in Hakuoro,wich obviously comes from their past,but what does Dii want exactly?For Hakuoro to join him?To kill him?

Also now that we learn more of Hakuoro's true origins,what is deal with the Rak Shine event?If I try to follow the timeline it seems Iceman lost his memories in the lab.Then he became berserk and called himself Rak Shine and ended up destroying parts of Kuccha-Keccha.then he lost his memories again and got found by Eruruu.

Also I've been thinking about the meaning of Hakuoro's mask.In the begining I thought it was come sort of magical device to seal his memory and keep his true identity hidden,but now I"m starting to suspect the mask is part of him.

But then we see that Dii seems to be involved in the same "project" as Hakuoro was but Dii has no mask.He's also an Ookami while Hakuoro is an ordinary human.

Man this serie keeps getting more complicated!

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Darklightz

Wow! This episode was intense! Well I"m certainly happy that Kuuya's reign of terror is over.

I still don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish with his zombies.Or maybe it's just a side project?Come to think of it I don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish at all.He schemes and plots but with no specific target(that we know of).Sure he has interest in Hakuoro,wich obviously comes from their past,but what does Dii want exactly?For Hakuoro to join him?To kill him?

Also now that we learn more of Hakuoro's true origins,what is deal with the Rak Shine event?If I try to follow the timeline it seems Iceman lost his memories in the lab.Then he became berserk and called himself Rak Shine and ended up destroying parts of Kuccha-Keccha.then he lost his memories again and got found by Eruruu.

Also I've been thinking about the meaning of Hakuoro's mask.In the begining I thought it was come sort of magical device to seal his memory and keep his true identity hidden,but now I"m starting to suspect the mask is part of him.

But then we see that Dii seems to be involved in the same "project" as Hakuoro was but Dii has no mask.He's also an Ookami while Hakuoro is an ordinary human.

Man this serie keeps getting more complicated!

the anime didn't explain it clearly but he was never rak shine. The kuccha-keccha guy was dupe into thinking he was by Dii.

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Darklightz

I still don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish with his zombies.Or maybe it's just a side project?Come to think of it I don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish at all. He schemes and plots but with no specific target(that we know of).Sure he has interest in Hakuoro,wich obviously comes from their past,but what does Dii want exactly?For Hakuoro to join him?To kill him?

Nope. He wants to trigger wars all around to make his particular beliefs in application. Necromancy and whatnot are just another way for him to create battles by adding more opponents to the fray. But this time he added a jab directed at Hakuoro by adding a Hakuoro-like mask to the corpses he reanimated. And, yes, Dii is deliberately targeting Hakuoro but it's more like he wants to get a rise ou of Hakuoro than anything else. Dii would have not ordered Mutsumi to attack Hakuoro had he wanted to have him by his side.

Also now that we learn more of Hakuoro's true origins,what is deal with the Rak Shine event?If I try to follow the timeline it seems Iceman lost his memories in the lab.Then he became berserk and called himself Rak Shine and ended up destroying parts of Kuccha-Keccha.then he lost his memories again and got found by Eruruu.

Wrong. FORGET about Rakushain. He was a decoy put in place by Dii himself to make (through a magical spell) Orikakan believe that Hakuoro was Rakushain. In the game, Orikakan is freed from Dii's spell and realizes that Hakuoro is not Rakushain. He even exclaimed out loud that he had never seen that man (Hakuoro) before.

Also I've been thinking about the meaning of Hakuoro's mask.In the begining I thought it was come sort of magical device to seal his memory and keep his true identity hidden,but now I"m starting to suspect the mask is part of him.

Partly, yes. It does keep something sealed but it's not his memories or his identity. When Eruruu recovered him from the forest where Aruruu incidentally suffered from an injury (although she forgot that part due to her contract), Hakuoro was gravely injured. Trauma is what stole his memories away - not the mask. Same thing for when he woke in the lab...although he was extracted from ice, leaving him unblemished from the long flow of years, he still suffered from mild amnesia due to his close brush with death.

But then we see that Dii seems to be involved in the same "project" as Hakuoro was but Dii has no mask.He's also an Ookami while Hakuoro is an ordinary human.

Same project? What are you on about?
If you're talking about the ghostlike apparition behind Dii when he got stabbed by Genjimaru, then you should realize that whatever happened to Hakuoro wasn't something made of his own volition - so it's not like there is a project lurking behind. When Hakuoro woke up in the lab there was no mention of his other nature, so the other researchers (they weren't archaeologists, btw) were most likely unaware that there was more to Hakuoro than met the eye. No, they were interested in him for other reasons. The fact that the archaeologist was nicknamed Iceman and that we are in the future where genetical engineering seems to be a quite easy science (seeing how they managed to create entities out of the archaeologist's genome) might be a clue. Although Neanderthals are inferior biologically speaking to Homo Sapienses, we are still interested in it. Finding a living body from perhaps a few centuries ago is like finding a gold mine if you're a scientist. There's lot of data to gather from it.

As for Dii being like Hakuoro, although not genetically, there is a BIG reason for that. But I can already tell you that this wasn't of his own volition either.

Spoiler for game:

In the game, Urutorii said that he wasn't Dii anymore - I mean, the being known as Dii no longer existed (Dii was her teacher a long time ago, so that's how she knew him) and something else had replaced him. Something among those lines.

[Newprimus]

I still don't get why people keep referring to Kuuya's war as a reign of terror. That's too simplistic, if you consider all the circumstances and going-ons behind the scenes.