What is Gundam?

[Undertaker]

Sorry for the double posts

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by jonli

Uh huh, I see, understood.

If she was "The One" that butchered the whole Destiny series....why didnt the top officials of Bandai/Sunrise just fire her? Change the script writer...if it was this serious they should take extreme measures. Unless Fukuda's influence on the company is really big or something.

Well, one can imagine Fukuda would have to shield his own wife from criticism. And he did, by apologizing for creating what he describes as the most dis-satisfactory and regrettable series that he has ever taken charge of. After all, as a Director who was also the husband, he really should have paid more attention to his wife's work.

The whole point of having someone in charge, is so that person can be responsible for the project's eventual success or failure. Fukuda had been a lucrative director for Sunrise in the past, so they can't sack him without further screwups. Make no mistake, had GSD being forced to cancel half-way through broadcast, he will most certainly be sacked along with a lot of other people.

As it is, Fukuda had dodged a bullet. GSD was nowhere as successful as it was suppose to be (what with good funding and a primetime time lot), but it just barely passed as an okay show in the end.

[ichigo112]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

This isn’t quite the right thread for your question, but I’ll try to answer it. If you’re talking about the girl in the rescue capsule with the other refugees, then her name is Fllay Alster, and she just escaped Heliopolis with everyone else. If you’re referring to the girl who’s ship got blown up, then her name is Lacus Clyne, daughter of the PLANT chairman Sigel Clyne. Her ship was on its way to the site of Junius 7, where her mission was to commemorate the destruction of the colony.


I agree with you in regards to the target audience for the OVAs. However, I think that you’re over thinking the issue when it comes to the TV series. The primary audience for every single Gundam TV show has always been male children aged 6-12. This can be verified in the case of Destiny by just looking at the winning entries for the Zaku-Zaku campaign (episode 29?). All of the other demographics are of a lesser importance. While the Cosmic Era series managed to grab a large portion of the female 14-20 demographic, it’s still not anywhere near the primary focus. In fact, I sort of think that this strength of this phenomenon sort of caught the creators by surprise – I don’t even think that they had the proper merchandising lines available to exploit this breakthrough.

I think that the greatest problems in Destiny actually stem from trying to please the traditional Gundam fans. My opinion is that they should have ignored this segment altogether and just went ahead with telling their own story.

i aint talking about the one in the space shuttle i am takling aboutt he one that loves kyra i think u know she is redheaded and she doesnt have a pet robot

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ichigo112

i aint talking about the one in the space shuttle i am takling aboutt he one that loves kyra i think u know she is redheaded and she doesnt have a pet robot

If you can't even remember her name, it's likely you barely remembered anything you've watched. Thus, it's futile to explain anything because it wouldn't make any sense to you. You don't need us explaining anything; you just need to watch the show again.

[jonli]

Well since a SEED movie is on its way. What do you think chances are for Ms.Fukuda to get the role of script writing again?

Since it seems Sunrise/Bandai and the staff are all aware of her screw ups. It seems like it would be the most logical move for them to make: replace the script writer.

or maybe Fukuda kissed some ass and got her the job again?

[wingdarkness]

^Well personally I'd say the fact that they are making movie means they are gonna squeeze the last bit of fruit-juice out of this franchise before they move on...No G-series with the same core cast has ever had 2 series, a movie, and another series...With the rumors of a new G-series in 2007 by a new director...I'd say this is the end...If the movie is phenomenal though all bets are off...Morosawa will probably still get a chance to write it since Fukuda will stand in as her own personal Phase Shift armour...I just wish we had more in-depth information on everything, but maybe Bandai threatened to make life a living-hell for anyone else who leaked info on the series troubles...

[cloudedge]

I would also put my money on Morosawa being the script writer for the movie... for one as Nightengale has said, her scripts aren't horrible especially when it's short, and a movie is at max 2hrs, so I think she can probably deliver something decent.

Second, they have announce that Fukuda would direct the series, if they were to change the script writer, they would have announce it too, consider how much hate a lot of fans have for Morosawa (just count the Asucaga fans to say the minimum)... the fact that they didn't announce it, probably means they don't want to upset the fanbase until it has gather more hype.

I would also say that it's likely that CE would end in this movie... similar to WING... but like wd said, if the movie make a comeback then, all bets are off.

And regarding the target audience for GS, I thought Fukuda mentioned in an interview that the female audiences was on his mind when he created GS.... and he was aiming at somewhere between MSG and Wing.

Bandai/Sunrise battleplan as far as I've read from interview was that, SD -> grader schooler, GS/GSD -> young teens 12-16 (male and female), UC -> twenties to thirties something (the ones who has the blings and can afford the Perfect Grades, the young dads who bring their boy to the Bandai Museum).

[flamingtroll]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I really liked Turn A as well, but I don't think it was all that different from the other Gundam shows. While it did start quite uniquely, and it had a very unorthodox setting, it quickly settled into a style quite reminiscent of the other shows. By the time Turn A reached outer space, it pretty much worked exactly the way the others did. It's almost as if the creators tried to break out of Gundam's constraints, but they couldn't quite suceed.

I think it is becuase Turn A is SUPPOSED to be a gundam show. It is basically the essence of what a gundam is. The original setting, mech and character design are really to have somethign new to see while all in all it is a gundam show. It still has the same theme as all the previous gundam. It is merely Tomino's final word on gundam. It is him showing what gundam is as a conclusion. It is "for all " gundam, (just in case someone doesnt know, though i doubt it, the Turn-A symbol is the universal quantifier in mathematics) , which means "for all variables" . He pretty much has moved on to Wings of Rean aka Dunbine after the Zeta gundam movies.

As a side note, Gundam shows have also been plagued with relatively poor writing. The dialogue, in particular, tends to be especially weak. This is a trend that I really hope that future works can buck.

What in your view would be an exmple of a "weak" dialogue, and what would be the otherwise?

This can be verified in the case of Destiny by just looking at the winning entries for the Zaku-Zaku campaign (episode 29?). All of the other demographics are of a lesser importance. While the Cosmic Era series managed to grab a large portion of the female 14-20 demographic, it’s still not anywhere near the primary focus. In fact, I sort of think that this strength of this phenomenon sort of caught the creators by surprise – I don’t even think that they had the proper merchandising lines available to exploit this breakthrough.

I think that the greatest problems in Destiny actually stem from trying to please the traditional Gundam fans. My opinion is that they should have ignored this segment altogether and just went ahead with telling their own story.

I am quite sure CE was produced with the motivation of attracting female audience into the show. The way it was set up as a teen romanace drama with a war backdrop is just the plain proof of this, not to mention the typical archtype of bishonen of the main male characters (5 of them, enough to make a boy band ). Not to mention Flay, the character that is almost solely created for the purpose of being disliked by fangirls of Kira or to be sympathized otherwise through out the series. And of couse, the classical soap material of who is sleepign with whom yet is in love with whom while secretly admire someone else stuff also helps. Sunrise learned a lesson from Wing and manage to integrate them better into a more wholesome show that would fit as large as a demography as possible.

Gundam , even since UC, has the 2 distinct segment of viewer that looks for different things . The 6- 10ish that watch mostly for the actions and the 13ish - 18ish range that watch them for their dramatic qualities. In fact, it is really SEED being the first that is raising the "entry" age with more focus on romanace and interpersonal drama and last but not least the subjects of sexuality, rather than more actions (which attract kids) and political drama (which attract older teens if they like the topic)

And I think people shoudl really stop this Fukuda this and that. Esepcially when a lot of ppl that complained abut SEED Destiny likes SEED I didnt' like CE at all but I don't think he is a bad director. He is just trying to make a series that is fitting to his bosses' need. I thought Cyberforumla is not bad for instance. That is one series where the style of developemnt found in SEED is more appropriate. The relationship between Asuka and Hayato in later sequels are IMO more interesting than most romance in SEED or SEED Destiny.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by ichigo112

hey i watched a couple of episodes from gundam seed and i wanna know a question u know the one girl with red hair wut was she doing on the space palne

She was a Thetan sent to earth by Xenu in a DC 8, who has atomic bombs dropped on her later in the series.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

And I think people shoudl really stop this Fukuda this and that. Esepcially when a lot of ppl that complained abut SEED Destiny likes SEED I didnt' like CE at all but I don't think he is a bad director. He is just trying to make a series that is fitting to his bosses' need. I thought Cyberforumla is not bad for instance. That is one series where the style of developemnt found in SEED is more appropriate. The relationship between Asuka and Hayato in later sequels are IMO more interesting than most romance in SEED or SEED Destiny.

Too bad. He had publicly blamed himself, so Fukuda is the one we blame.

Fukuda admits that GSD is the worst piece of work he has ever created. (Something along the lines of... "I always feel that my anime creations are less than what they could have been, and always have a sense of regret. But GSD was the worst of them all".)

The responsibility lies with Fukuda, because he is the director. The director gets all the glory, but also all the blame.

[T.V.]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Fukuda admits that GSD is the worst piece of work he has ever created. (Something along the lines of... "I always feel that my anime creations are less than what they could have been, and always have a sense of regret. But GSD was the worst of them all".)

His own acknowledgement gives some hope for the SE's to turn out better IMO.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by flamingtroll

I think it is becuase Turn A is SUPPOSED to be a gundam show. It is basically the essence of what a gundam is. The original setting, mech and character design are really to have somethign new to see while all in all it is a gundam show. It still has the same theme as all the previous gundam. It is merely Tomino's final word on gundam. It is him showing what gundam is as a conclusion. It is "for all " gundam, (just in case someone doesnt know, though i doubt it, the Turn-A symbol is the universal quantifier in mathematics) , which means "for all variables" . He pretty much has moved on to Wings of Rean aka Dunbine after the Zeta gundam movies.

Originally, I was trying to refute the contention that Turn A was all that different from other Gundam shows, so our positions on it are fairly similar. Where our opinions part is that I think that Turn A would have been far more successful had it not been a Gundam show at all. The ending was far weaker than the beginning and middle sections promised. The creators had an excellent opportunity to break out of the overly constrictive Gundam "mold", but they ended up reaffirming some of the weakest elements found in the franchise instead.

Originally Posted by flamingtroll

What in your view would be an exmple of a "weak" dialogue, and what would be the otherwise?

If you're looking for examples of weak dialogue, you can just about take your pick – it tends to be rule rather than the exception. What come to mind most strongly are the in-cockpit conversations, particularly between battling opponents, and whenever Treize opens his mouth. The most telling thing about the poor dialogue is that it doesn't really sound as if it's spoken by human beings. It more as if it's written by handicapped monkeys with no experience with human conversation.

Good dialogue is much harder to come by; Odelo and Tomache's rather pathetic attempt to get Uso to give them tips on how to hit on girls is a good example.

Originally Posted by flamingtroll

Gundam , even since UC, has the 2 distinct segment of viewer that looks for different things . The 6- 10ish that watch mostly for the actions and the 13ish - 18ish range that watch them for their dramatic qualities. In fact, it is really SEED being the first that is raising the "entry" age with more focus on romanace and interpersonal drama and last but not least the subjects of sexuality, rather than more actions (which attract kids) and political drama (which attract older teens if they like the topic)

The break down should be between the OVAs, which are designed for an older audience, and the TV shows which are designed primarily for kids. Primetime TV shows are large financial investments, so the creators generally try to get as large an audience as possible. That's why they also have elements that appeal to older viewers. It should still be noted that all Gundam TV shows (like the rest of the primetime anime TV shows) are kids' shows, first and foremost, no matter what other content they may have.

[Poseidal]

It should still be noted that all Gundam TV shows (like the rest of the primetime anime TV shows) are kids' shows, first and foremost, no matter what other content they may have.

I wouldn't show Victory (or even Zeta) Gundam to children.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Poseidal

I wouldn't show Victory (or even Zeta) Gundam to children.

Well, the Japanese would. And the Japanese did.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Poseidal

I wouldn't show Victory (or even Zeta) Gundam to children.

Really? Why's that? Is there something objectionable about Victory and Zeta that would make them objectionable to children?

[wingdarkness]

^Hehe...only the morbid deaths of various characters, including children...I agree, while I love both these series..I wouldn't allow my kid to watch them until atleast 11 or 12, but if I watched it with them that would be different as I can explain to them that Kotz got transported to same place Vegeta sends guys..."To the next dimension..." ...I'm almost baffled someone wouldn't know what makes a series like Zeta or Victory objectionable to US kids...Kids are extremely impressionable to $hit like death (Obviously I like Japanese culture and the fact that they can get away with this, but US culture just isn't the same)...I mean when a kid wakes up in the middle of the night with pi$$ in their pants, talking about an impaled Scirocco is in their closet, you got a problem...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

^Hehe...only the morbid deaths of various characters, including children...I agree, while I love both these series..I wouldn't allow my kid to watch them until atleast 11 or 12, but if I watched it with them that would be different as I can explain to them that Kotz got transported to same place Vegeta sends guys..."To the next dimension..." ...I'm almost baffled someone wouldn't know what makes a series like Zeta or Victory objectionable to US kids...Kids are extremely impressionable to $hit like death (Obviously I like Japanese culture and the fact that they can get away with this, but US culture just isn't the same)...I mean when a kid wakes up in the middle of the night with pi$$ in their pants, talking about an impaled Scirocco is in their closet, you got a problem...

So is it any worse than being eaten by the big bad wolf? Or being chased by a giant while climbing down a bean-stalk?

Children knows far more than what the US adults give them credits for.

[wingdarkness]

^I'd never deny that...I'm totally against all that christian right overkill when it comes to violence on TV and such, but even with my super-liberal veiw there are some things I still wouldn't show a child...I'm grown and there is stuff in Zeta and Victory that are tuff for me to watch, so I know some stuff might freak a kid out...Now babies they're fine...you can show them anything as long as it has color and moves (Thinks back to when i watched that horrible Patlabor movie with my nephew and he was all in to it while I couldn't watch some of the more gore-ish stuff)...Death means nothing to babies, but 3-11 you gotta be a little careful there intake of morbid $hit...I turned out fine eventhough my mom made me watch "Faces of Death" with her as a 8 year old, she even use to put stockings on her face and scare the hell outta me and my little sis for fun, but I'm not sure if i'd do that to my kids...there's got to be some limit...(although if i had a son and he didn't like sports i would scare the hell outta him and screw him up for life^^)....

[Anh_Minh]

You know what'd freak me out? Being nailed to a cross. Now that's a horrible death I wouldn't want my kids to know about.

[Nightengale]

Frankly, I don't think Kamen Rider Ryuuki and Kamen Rider Faiz/555 are kiddie material, despite being geared as such and created for such target audience.

It just shows how certain cultural acceptance had evolved since time immemorial, and frankly, Zeta's not all that thought-evoking in it's potrayal of war and death in the eyes of young children.This is of course, due to the fact that deaths are often made to look like something casual in war as opposed to something emotionally powerful and heart-wrenching.