Higurashi Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Flame-X]

surprising that keichi went that far for satoko

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Clamp-X

surprising that keichi went that far for satoko

There, you just caught the no.1 deficiency with the anime: not enough empathy between us viewers and the characters. The game went though a long process showing Keiichi developing a loving bond with Satoko, learning and understanding about her situation, and trying his best at becoming a second ni-ni- figure for Satoko (you can see a little bit of this in the "advanced trap lecture" TIP, I think). There was a loving relationship between the two.

That's why, when Keiichi *snapped* from seeing Satoko breaking down (which he did in the game, but not in the anime), the feeling was mutually shared by most players as well. That's why, when Keiichi went into "KOOL mode" (a term used by the fans describing the times when Keiichi went into a psycho state, kind of like Rena's Oyashiro-mode), the players felt it too. The anime lacked these types of portrayal, that's why it felt really sudden to see Keiichi "going that far for Satoko".

Originally Posted by iczelion74

Can someone give some insight on the important parts from the game that were left out of eps 11?

Spoiler for a small excerpt of Keiichi's high speed chain of thoughts when he snapped:

The manga captured this quite well:

Eliminate Satoko's uncle.
There are plenty of ways to achieve that. Truly, there is an unlimited number of methods to go about it.
Ironically, compared to the methods of saving Satoko, most of which requires an investment cost, it costs practically nothing to erase that man.

It's possible to eliminate that man with minimal investment.
Minimal investment and some change.
That's the weight of that man's life.

Wipe out useless informations from my head one by one,
...and fill it only with information required to carry out my objective.
Engage every cell within my brain for the sole purpose of eliminating that man.

The removal of that man is performed in order to restore the peaceful times to us and Satoko.
If I get arrested in return for that man's removal, then it's no different from a double death.

Only that man disappears, while our daily lives return once again. That's the ultimate goal. The absolute target.

I'll definitely kill him.
However, don't leave any evidence behind.
The two contradicting sides on a scale.
The condition of not leaving behind any trails automatically narrows the number of killing methods down.

The absolute rule is to not be spotted.
Luckily, there are almost nobody around in Hinamizawa if you pick the right time.

Reconstruct the landscape surrounding Satoko's house.
...The amount of traffic that changes with the time slot. The algorithms of the neighbouring resident's movements.

Should I call him out? Should I ambush him? What will the weapon be? When and where will it be carried out?
The condition is that it must be a location where I won't leave behind a trail.

Time conditions also add to that, this must be carried out as soon as possible in order to save Satoko.

Pointless, pointless.
Now that I think about it, I realize just how simple the act of killing is.
If it's alright to leave behind evidences, if we're just talking about killing, then anyone can easily murder another person.

But our reasoning stops that.
That "if you do it, you'll definitely get arrested".

In the end, the ultimate restraint that stops us from the act of murder is the thought that we'll get arrested by police, that's all.
(Pointless!)

If this was in the middle of the ocean, and knowing for sure that no evidences will be left, anyone would would push the person they hate into the sea!

If we're just talking about the removal of that man, then it's all too easy.
I can dash out of this classrom right now and pick up a metal bat or something in the school yard and assault that man at his house.

Estimated time required is 25 minutes.
If I were to go in without caring about my own safety, then, coverted into seconds, I will be able to complete this in less than 1500 seconds.

I realize just how that man is being allowed to live.
If I were to make the decision, he would be exiled from this world in merely 1500 seconds, that's the level of his existence.

If I were to make the decision, he would only have 1500 seconds left to live.
No, ...If I ran for his house quickly, that remaining life would probably be shortened even more.

But that man is alive.
Tearing Satoko's body and mind into tatters, yet he's living on even at this very moment.

Why?!

Because I'm letting him live.
He's still able to live right now because I approved him to live.
If I were to take back that approval, he would have to leave this world within 1500 seconds.

...... Like hell I'm going to let you breath the air of this world for another 1500 seconds.
... As of this moment, I cancel all of those approvals.

... And that was just a small section of Keiichi's internal monologue during his "KOOL mode".

Spoiler for another powerful scene from the game:

Also, in the game, while Keiichi was still stunned, Rena ran up to Satoko, and after whispering with Satoko (which we cannot hear, just like Keiichi), we saw Rena explode with anger, kicking over a desk, and even went Oyashiro-mode on Keiichi due to his obstinate questions.

And then, broke down in tears together with Satoko,

This scene was so emotionally powerful because the players have no idea what Rena heard from Satoko, just like Keiichi, but we were able to sense that something horrible has happened to Satoko, and that we were too late.

What can I say? The anime simply didn't (or can't) get around to all these other aspects of the original sound novel, and that really weakened the story a lot.

But if you think about, it's not as if the anime's skipping them on purpose, because it's true that every episode was packed with developments. There was simply no room to accomodate all the other plot elements from each chapter.

Too bad, rather than blazing through each chapter, focusing only on the "suspense" portions of the story, if they had focused on only 1 or 2 chapters and took the time to illustrate all the important scenes and events, the stories would've been so much more powerful than they are now.

I'm complaining again, aren't I? ^^;

Well, I'll just shut up and repeat to myself that phrase I heard somewhere:
"Just be glad that an anime version actually exists, just be glad that an anime version actually exists, just be..."

[Paracelsus]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Spoiler for WOW:

I did notice one thing the bat that K1 used to beat Satakos uncle i could have sworn that it was Satoshi's bat but he threw it in the swamp. If that is the case how did he use it in the first chapeter to trash Mion and Rena?

Spoiler:

If that is the case, why all of them are still alive after getting killed? Detail-wise, each chapter's plot is somehow a stand-alone, as if there was some kind of loop that brings everything back to the beginning, just like nothing had happened before. Or something

[npal]

Spoiler for just in case:

Well, I might go that far for any kid. I mean, should legal means fail, I'd certainly have serious thoughts about doing it myself or hiring some assassin to dispose of the individual in question. Damn, if he's such a bastard and doesn't really care about looking for her, I could as well organize a fake kidnapping and use all means necessary to change her name and appear as her guardian in a remote rural area. Nevertheless... Keiichi is cool for once

[Pellissier]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Too bad, rather than blazing through each chapter, focusing only on the "suspense" portions of the story, if they had focused on only 1 or 2 chapters and took the time to illustrate all the important scenes and events, the stories would've been so much more powerful than they are now.

Yes, complaining isn't fair since they still brought animated such an immense and powerful novel.
Though, I'm really getting again that deja-vu feeling of "rushed-off" (not due to production's fault) that I felt a bit in Onikakushi, more in Watanagashi, and much stronger now in Tatarigoroshi. Funnily enough, the previos episode was called "Bond" , but yet they miss to show all the actual bonds, even with 1 episode more than Onikakushi and Watanagashi.

A nice formula that I could think of, also because of the absence of the last two answer question, could have been as following:

- A season 1 (26 episodes) with the question chapters, 6 episodes for each chapter with a bonus of 2 for the chapters needing more (like Tatarigoroshi seems worthy enough of it).

- Later (fall, or winter) a season 2 (26 episodes) with the answer chapters, still 6 episodes each (+2) with Minagoroshi and Matsuribayashi included as well.
I don't like the idea of the last 2 chap. being excluded. The anime will Imho feel incomplete even if the end will be looking like satisfaying.

I'm asking too much, I know ... though basically it's just like Higurashi no Naku Koro ni and Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai. Lol, it's that I just can't have too much of this show. Kinda reminds me of X-Files made into anime so it's a pity to see it being almost at its half ^^

Also, I've to say that reading this forum is sort of crucial to sort out the story better. I've to admit, that a non-novel reader/non-game player who should watch the anime, may be somewhat lost. (it's a bit the same of Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsuu and the shuffling of episode's order in Kyon' timeline rather than Haruhi's timeline. Who whould understand that without a previous tiny explanation?)

[Freakman]

I doubt those train of thoughts passages could be adapted into anime very well.
I mean are you just going to have a still image for 5-8 minutes while he talks ?
Some people may like it, but chances are you're just going to estrange most of the audience. But I'll admit they could still have more.
What I want to say is that books (well, visual/sound novels) aren't the same medium as anime, so obviously you're not going to get the same.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Freakman

I doubt those train of thoughts passages could be adapted into anime very well.
I mean are you just going to have a still image for 5-8 minutes while he talks ?
Some people may like it, but chances are you're just going to estrange most of the audience. But I'll admit they could still have more.
What I want to say is that books (well, visual/sound novels) aren't the same medium as anime, so obviously you're not going to get the same.

Definitely, if the anime stuck to the sound novel to a tee (like Kyoani did with Suzumiya Haruhi), you'd probably get whole episodes where absolutely nothing happens. So I'm not against cutting out/shortening the unimportant scenes.

But it's a different story when they start leaving out scenes that are significant or even critical to the original story, because at that point, it begins to intrude on the integrity of the original story.

Don't want to see Keiichi standing there thinking to himself for 5 minutes? Fine, do what the manga did, cut it down to a quick symbolic scene, but don't cut it out altogether.

I know perfectly well that the anime has its limits, and like I said in the last post, I know they're not skipping these scenes on purpose. There's simply no room to accomodate everything, that's all.

Rather than choosing to focus on a small number of chapters and portraying all aspects of the story (drama, mystery, tragedy, comedy, suspense, horror...), they chose to cover a larger number of chapters, leaving only enough room for the "suspense" elements in each one.

And in my opinion, that's a shame because the anime-watchers are really missing out on some stellar details.

Now if you don't mind, I'll go back to repeating that phrase to myself again.

[Morgri]

I thought it was paced really well. Sure, we didn't really get to see the development much between the too, but in my honest opinion, I really saw the connection between him and the Satoko. Why would he invest so much time with her during the last episode? Or, when I looked at it has a whole, from arc to arc, I got a better sense of character development from Keiichi and the girls he has come to love.

Therefore, I gave the episode a 10. Not because it could have been better, but becuase I thought it had as much as it needed to people who haven't seen the manga or actual game. I'm sure if I were to ever get the game, I would find it much better, or the novels for that reason, but not playing the game or not watching the novels hasn't affected my find on the show at all. I still see the great relationship between Keiichi and the girls, I still gathered why he hated his past and how it compared to the present he had with the girls, and pertaining to this arc, just like the last one, I see why he would have risked him wellbeing and morality for Satoko.

It was done remarkably well, and to criticize every point that went wrong is really unfair. Sort as if you where picking out every bad thing that a book that was converted into a movie had.

Bravo, great episode.

For additional comments, though, I get the feeling that Satoko will get angry at Keiichi for doing this. Maybe not becuase she's happy that her uncle is gone, but perhaps becuase she is worried about Keiichi's well being, or maybe cause it reminds her to much about what Satoshi did. I find it kind of odd that he did the same thing as Satoshi =p. Either way, one thing is clear, Keiichi would be crushed if Satoko got mad at him and decided not to forgive him. That's where it would become interesting, how would Keiichi react afterword? Would he be able to forgive himself for harming Satoko instead of his actual purpose to save her? Or maybe, she won't be mad at all? or will she keep a secret? I think those questions are important ones going into the next episode.

[ChainLegacy]

I never have anything deep or interesting to say, so I'll just add that I like the murdering Keiichi seen in this and at the end of the first arc best. I hate it when he gets pushed around :P.

[Arimfe]

I really thought that he was busted when the car approached him, like "oh crap, he's here....he's comming! Keiichi GET OFF THE ROAD! And why are you still carrying that shovel??? OMG Oishi is comming you'll be busted aaarrrrrrhrhhhhhhhh "
I was really relieved hearing it was Takano. But then something is telling me I can't quite feel too relieved just yet.....

[Amaranthine]

It was a good episode, which I gave 9/10. I won't bother saying why, my thoughts have already been voiced by others. And one thing is bugging me so much...

Spoiler:

All I can think is "Takano has Tomitake's bike in the back of her car... what is in the trunk?" There's one answer that springs to mind straight away, and I'm far too scared of Takano to believe it's actually something innocent in the trunk.

I'm sure it's his bike as well, as his bike is a folding one, and there are two wheels next to each other when we see it in the back of the car.


But... why? Confusion... maybe it is something innocent. Or not something innocent, but not Tomitake either.

[Akuryou]

I guess it's Tomitake afterall... or Satoko's uncle's body.

Spoiler for One thing I have to comment...:

...what if Takano worked for the Sonozaki [like someone here said] and Mion really made her kill the dude? Now, when she went to him, he wasn't home?

9/10 for me. Psycho Onikakushi'd Keiichi is the one to look forward to~

[Matrim]

I loved this episode. Great suspence and atmosphere. I can't wait for the next episode.

Spoiler:

For some reason I was sure that Takano will catch Keiich red-handed and sure enough she did it. All the people, myself included, who suspected her seem to have been right to do so. Seems I am not the only one who thinks that she had a dead body in the trunk of her car? Probably that of Kenny...I mean Tomitake. Takano is totally leading my list of suspects right now, although she is just too obviously creepy to be the mastermind of it all.

It will be interesting to see now if the uncle was really the one hurting Satoko, K1 seem pretty good at jumping to conclusions, if someone else was hurting Satoko

Yes, it would be quite a chilling twist if the uncle was not that guilty as it seemed. Also, I am not that convinced that Satoshi actually killed his aunt.

One explanation of how she'd know so much (and have the photographer's body in the trunk ) would be if she was a Sonozaki hitman.

No need for jumping to conclusions, after all Keiichi seemed quite suspicious and I think we can be sure that Takano knows all about the murders in Hinamizava so no wonder she concluded he was a murderer.

And Keiichi can be quite scary indeed. But boy, he really needs to learn to lie better! His obvious lies bring him trouble in each story arc.

Sure, the development of the bond between Satoko and Keiichi was totally rushed in this arc but what can we do, seems like in the anime plot development has a much bigger priority than character development which is a shame but the motivation of the characters, although often not fully clear, so far has not been totally lacking.

[BakaOnna]

Spoiler:

Wow... this episode... the last time an episode effected me so much was episode 4. In a way, I found it really disturbing, but I did want the uncle to die a horrible death. I'm just hoping Keiichi didn't jump into conclusions about the uncle. I wonder how Sakoto will react to this. I'm pretty sure Mion has an idea of what Keiichi did and Takano knows. It was truely a very well-done and heavy episode. My heart was literally beating for twenty minutes, and Takano was just creepy. When I first saw that scene, I though it might have been Keiichi's hallucination, but I'm not sure, since Takano did drive her car by and she's creepy like that.

The only reason I didn't give it a 10 was I would've liked to see some of Keiichi's KOOLness get animated. Still, excellent episode.

[Pacilia]

THis is the first ep of higurashi that made me sit at the edge of my seat and my heart pounding really fast throughout the entire thing. It would've been better if osme things are explained, though I'm going to guess that I can get the answer in teh TIPS....

[Beyond the Shave]

Probably my favorite episode so far. They finally give Keiichi (a little, not much) backstory. I wonder if he went through an incident at his old school like Rena did?

The "big scene" was great, and Takano is definitely not a normal resident.

Spoiler:

But if it is indeed Tomitake in the trunk, how could she have overpowered him?

[BakaOnna]

Spoiler:

I don't know if it's me but the part where Keiichi was looking for the hole after he killed the uncle... he dug the hole where that yellow road sign was, but when he went back to the sign, the hole wasn't there. Was it possible for someone to have moved the sign? I'll have to watch that part again, but it looked as if the background changed, and the sign didn't look like it was at the bottom of that cliff... like its been moved or something...

[orion]

Well, I'm glad that they didn't do the Kei internal monologue.

Spoiler:

That was too much to animate. Flow would have been interrupted. Besides, the discussion with his mother was a good enough substitute imo and you could pretty much tell that he was under alot of stress/psycho mode during the murder scene and the scene leading up to it. The flashback, chapter 1 and this chapter did establish a bond between those 2. We don't need to be hit over the head with it imo.

Spoiler for Teppei's scene:

Besides it wasn't a perfect crime. The police will be called in. Tanako saw him after the incident and prob during the whole thing. (I bet she prob had the hole refilled and the sign moved to slow him down and to better hide the evidence in a new site.) He has no alibi. He called from the school to the uncle's house. This is just a mess. Why not dump the body in the marsh? He's going to crack as soon as Oishi gets a hold of him. He's an idiot again, but now a proactive one. I really feel sorry for this guy.

So Tomitake...

Spoiler:

bites the dust off camera again and prob his bike is in her trunk. He dies in every chapter and doesn't seem to do alot to get killed. I hope that this gets explained later on. Tanako survived the festival again. I wonder what does he see her do that causes his death. This also means that she won't rat on Kei to Oishi. She prob said that to intentionally throw him over the edge.

[evil-samurai]

The anime lacked these types of portrayal, that's why it felt really sudden to see Keiichi "going that far for Satoko".

It seemed normal to me, for him to do that, I'm glad he did too that uncle was a Bastard. I dont think it really needs to be explain much, I mean the uncle was physically abusing Satoko it seems only human to stop it straight! away and for Keiichi the best way to stop it was to kill him ^^ which doesn't seem like a huge thing in this show where death happens alot. Keiichi chararter always had a backbone and can get on edge sometimes. So in aspect of seeing Keiichi plan to kill someone also isn't a suprize.

A nice episode, The current Arc is better then the last but still it will be hard to top the first arc. As I hear there are another two episode for this arc, I wonder where the focus will be.. On Keiichi and the death or somewhere else...

[hi-hi]

Didn't play game or read manga, but did feel the connection between Keiichi and Satoko from those flashbacks.
He didn't really have friends in his old school, but the killer lolis welcomed him right away.

Tomitake:

Spoiler:

I bet Tomitake got buried by Takano in the first hole Kei dug! =o