Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by frodonk

Part of what I've laid out might've been influenced by all the other isekai series I've seen over the years. These 4 were touted as the legendary heroes who will save the country/world, so mastery of the world they're now in is expected of them, even the plot has pointed this out by the king saying that "everyone knows the summoned heroes already know what they need to know when they come here", they all even made fun of Naofumi when he was confused about things they considered basic.

Aaand yet they lack knowledge of basic stuff like elemental resistance, this is beyond the level of "hard-headedness" or "unwillingness to learn", it's like they haven't even played the tutorial yet.

Even if they're the type of player that only wanted to play the leader and get attention for it while disregarding the game mechanics as long as they can defeat enemies, they should have known about something as basic as "possible skill trees" and that "you should switch your weapon's element if you're not doing any damage to the enemy."

Not only did they keep beating the thing with their weapons even though they're doing very little damage to it, Ren even shouted HAXX when he saw that skill. These reactions in any game would come from a noob, not an experienced hero.

I guess what I'm saying is that whatever magic that brought them to this world should've chosen more carefully, and the next time they summon a single person from a pool of presumably thousands of players from multiple worlds, they'll pick somebody who at the very least knows something about elemental resistances

I'd say the games' being based on records or knowledge of the waves (either past if the same series of monsters come with each batch of waves or the future otherwise) clears a good deal of this. The heroes made it fairly clear that they all "knew" this enemy and "knew" how to defeat it. To them the progress of their battles was predictable, if delayed by their most important party members running off and doing useless nonsense that wouldn't help in the slightest. Ren said the captain comes back several times and has to be repeatedly defeated, so he wasn't surprised at all by its respawn. It's fairly clear that all of them expected this boss at this time and therefore assumed that the tactics would be the same. Hardly seems strange then that they should expect it to have the weaknesses they remember. So no, I'm pretty sure they "know about elemental resistance"; they just believe with all their hearts that either it's weak to lightning or has no resistance and thus the strong lightning is the best option. As I said before, even if they say they "know it's not a game" they still embrace all the similarities as evidence that it really is the game they played while ignoring any and all indications of limits to those correlations.

[The Green One]

From what I see it's not that the other three don't know about things and how they work it's more like it's about "That's not how things went in my game!" they're acting and doing things how they expect to see it happen from their game experience and refuse to deviate from it even when it shows to not be working and that it's different from the game. That's their stupidity.

[Kuroageha]

spoiled solo gamer logic: someone is better than me? = Cheats

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Well, they still need to work on improving their action in my opinion, but this was pretty fun either way. The iron maiden was pretty satisfactory to me in its presentation.

And while the three may say they "know it isn't a game" they kind of give away that this isn't really true. I've actually developed a bit of a theory for how all this is working though. Somehow actual records of the past Waves were transferred to the different worlds, and individuals who obtained them were inspired to make stories from them. Naofumi's world just made a book, but the other three had them made into games, each inevitably adding and subtracting aspects to make the game simpler or more enjoyable. While the three insist they know it's not their game, I'm pretty sure they still believe it's a perfect duplicate and ignore anything different from their memories. That's why in this episode each had a different concept of how to spawn the boss fight and continued to hammer away at their useless tasks while berating each other for doing the wrong thing.

In any case looks like we've got a real boss fight coming up, with this Glass lady one-hitting the creature that took everything out of Naofumi.

To add to your theory, I wouldn't be surprised if past heros were the ones to have brought back this information. If the King was telling the truth then it would stand to reason that past surviving heroes were sent home possibly with their memories in tact. What to do with a bunch of knowledge that you can't really "share" with anyone else? Makes some video games, and write some "fictitious" stories of course.

[Magewolf]

It all makes a lot more sense if you keep in mind that the entire world was designed to make Naofumi look good.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I don't like how there's a lot of "talking is a free action"-moments in this episode where characters get to stand around and do some lengthy speeches/dialogues in this supposedly intense boss battle while everything else suddenly stop happening. I mean, the freakin' high-level monsters are just outside the frame but still there. What made them stop attacking? It's somewhat worse than the similar moments in Goblin Slayer which I already had a problem with. I mean, this isn't Sailormoon where monsters like to pause to give the heroes some time to deliver their speech & catchphrases. So, get on with the action, will ya.

Is this because the studio can't afford to animate ongoing battle? or the source material also has the same problem?

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

It all makes a lot more sense if you keep in mind that the entire world was designed to make Naofumi look good.

Yeah, that is pretty annoying and mostly an anime problem; see the enxt reply.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Is this because the studio can't afford to animate ongoing battle? or the source material also has the same problem?

the source material is different; web novel wise.

Spoiler:

When naofumi arrives there, glass already wrecked them

the anime has been doing a very conscious effort of making naofumi look better, at first it was only about skipping the inner monologues, now it's even altering scenes.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

the source material is different; web novel wise.

Spoiler:

When naofumi arrives there, glass already wrecked them

The anime has been doing a very conscious effort of making naofumi look better, at first it was only about skipping the inner monologues, now it's even altering scenes.

I don't really care too much about what the anime is trying to highlight from Nao's personality. My problem is the clunky action direction in this episode. It's kinda bad. Imagine if the protags from Saving Private Ryan are suddenly able to just stand around and talk during the hellish beach run scene where the Nazis suddenly stop shooting to give them some speech time. It's bad and it took me out of the action.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I don't like how there's a lot of "talking is a free action"-moments in this episode where characters get to stand around and do some lengthy speeches/dialogues in this supposedly intense boss battle while everything else suddenly stop happening. I mean, the freakin' high-level monsters are just outside the frame but still there. What made them stop attacking? It's somewhat worse than the similar moments in Goblin Slayer which I already had a problem with. I mean, this isn't Sailormoon where monsters like to pause to give the heroes some time to deliver their speech & catchphrases. So, get on with the action, will ya.

Is this because the studio can't afford to animate ongoing battle? or the source material also has the same problem?

It's a lot easier to ignore when in written form, because you can mentally pretend that everyone is still fighting, and the talking is happening in the middle of all that. In fact, it largely can't happen in written form, even if the discussion is a ten-minute dissertation, or a flashback of your entire high school life. So I wouldn't say it's an issue with the original source material, and more of an adaptation issue.

At 9:22, we could even see the skeleton pirate very slowly trudging towards the group as they talked. That was the most hilarious moment for me.

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I don't really care too much about what the anime is trying to highlight from Nao's personality. My problem is the clunky action direction in this episode. It's kinda bad. Imagine if the protags from Saving Private Ryan are suddenly able to just stand around and talk during the hellish beach run scene where the Nazis suddenly stop shooting to give them some speech time. It's bad and it took me out of the action.

You are correct, in another place I mentioned I would be ok with that if at least the action scene was competently directed, but it reeked of low budget this episode; the martial arts old lady's hit lacked any impact and it was downhill from there.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I don't really care too much about what the anime is trying to highlight from Nao's personality. My problem is the clunky action direction in this episode. It's kinda bad. Imagine if the protags from Saving Private Ryan are suddenly able to just stand around and talk during the hellish beach run scene where the Nazis suddenly stop shooting to give them some speech time. It's bad and it took me out of the action.

Agreed. I love this series, but as I've said before I seriously wish they did the action scenes better. And it's not just the pauses to talk: in the first wave there were points where they even stopped talking for a few seconds without any reason, which made the conversation seem awkward even as it made the action worse for the long pauses. I've watched enough action shounen series to know it's possible to portray convincing conversations in the midst of combat, so this is for me the show's one biggest flaw.

[Mad Pierrot]

For some reason, I found this episode kind of forced. It's like they are trying to make Naofumi as likable as possible at the cost of making the others look like trash. I thought the other heroes already realized Naofumi had a good side but in this episode they just look Naofumi and Filo fighting and they simply don't care about the monster. I wonder if this was better in the light novel or manga.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

For some reason, I found this episode kind of forced. It's like they are trying to make Naofumi as likable as possible at the cost of making the others look like trash. I thought the other heroes already realized Naofumi had a good side but in this episode they just look Naofumi and Filo fighting and they simply don't care about the monster. I wonder if this was better in the light novel or manga.

I think Ren is coming around to realizing Naofumi isn't really as bad as they thought initially.

Motoyasu still hates his guts and Itsuki is mad at being called out in the last episode.

[Galaxian]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Motoyasu still hates his guts and Itsuki is mad at being called out in the last episode.

Motoyasu is being his usual dumb self while Itsuki is just being petty. They didn't had the line from the manga when Naofumi arrives and Itsuki asks if he's here to steal the glory again.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

spoiled solo gamer logic: someone is better than me? = Cheats

So Kirito logic then.

[The Green One]

Nah it's more like Ren finding out he's NOT Kirito.

Being Kirito means you are the recipient of the Haxx and the world loves you and everything you do.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

I wonder if this was better in the light novel or manga.

Manga is worse in how it treats them at the very least, because the author really wants you on Naofumi's side. Naofumi's also nowhere near as chill as he is in the anime in the manga. The anime toning down his worse traits and bolstering some of the others positive ones is a boon in my eyes though.

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Twi

Manga is worse in how it treats them at the very least, because the author really wants you on Naofumi's side. Naofumi's also nowhere near as chill as he is in the anime in the manga. The anime toning down his worse traits and bolstering some of the others positive ones is a boon in my eyes though.

Interesting.

[Kanon]

I'd be more interested in finding out what it was like in the LNs. The manga is just another adaptation so to me it's irrelevant to the anime. Yeah, I know the LNs are also an "adaption" of the web novel, but as far as I can tell they're considered the real canon now.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Twi

Manga is worse in how it treats them at the very least, because the author really wants you on Naofumi's side. Naofumi's also nowhere near as chill as he is in the anime in the manga. The anime toning down his worse traits and bolstering some of the others positive ones is a boon in my eyes though.

I'd not really say the author just wants us to like Naofumi. More like he's doubling down on his premise where the three are concerned: three people with "virtues" taken to the point of serious weakness and negativity who can't accept the truth before them. In their attempts to be heroes, Motoyasu's conviction and determination to support those he chose to side with is pushed to the point where he can't possibly accept that he might have been wrong about someone or that someone might have deceived him; Itsuki's heroics have become a blind attempt to play some mysterious superhero without any consideration for the consequences of his actions or even the circumstances of the crises he believes himself to be averting; and while I'm not as sure about Ren I'd assume he's basically looking at the whole thing as a series of kill quests and the like, doing his job and moving on again without cleaning up after himself. The exaggeration could indeed be an attempt to just make Naofumi look better without too much work, or it could just be a way to further emphasize what's happening with the three. I honestly can't say which.