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View Poll Results: Steins;Gate 0 - Episode 8 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 6 | 46.15% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 3 | 23.08% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 2 | 15.38% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 1 | 7.69% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 7.69% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll |
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2018-05-31, 08:21 | Link #21 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Regarding exchange of information, that's absolutely not possible, because SG proved a world shift deal with any retroactive change which cannot work with 2 world communicating the way you propose. All Okarin did was to send a message to the PAST, confirmed with all the dmails that didn't trigger a world line shift. None of the Dmail that didn't affect the past didn't make Okarin jump to another world, since there would a RS reaction otherwise. By that, we can conclude that the dmail only contains the text information the FG lab members have sent. If it is really based on different world interpretation, then Okarin sending that dmail would affect another world, but not his, and there is no reason for him to have a RS either. Conversively, failed dmails are still found in the recipient phone which confirms they are sent to the same world. The reading steiner is pretty much self explanatory regarding what's going on in SG in general: the world completely restructure itself which would obviously affect everyone's memory, but it didn't affect Okarin as an established fact. Saying they are just sent to a parallel world lead to another issue: why wasn't Okarin sent to another world when nothing was affected by the dmail? Why didn't the RS activate after the rainet dmail? According to you, we are in a model that propose "exchange of information between two different worlds", yet RS didn't activate whatsoever. Quote:
Okarin is the exception to the rule because he isn't affected by the memory reset inflicted by the world restructuration. Quote:
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2018-05-31 at 08:39. |
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2018-05-31, 09:00 | Link #22 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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And on top of that, you make up bullshit about a person's personality based on zero evidence? |
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2018-05-31, 10:38 | Link #23 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Suzuha states that different world lines are not parallel worlds, only vaguely existing as "possibilities", but I can't fathom how she could know it to be true. It's kind of a given that the time-traveling protagonist (like Okabe, Suzuha or SERN) would think this way, otherwise the only thing they could change by time travel is their own, subjective perception of the various worlds that already existed anyway. It would completely ruin the imperative of time travel. Quote:
Anyway, I don't see how it necessarily follows that the world he peaced out of ceases to exist. Quote:
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Last edited by Jaden; 2018-05-31 at 11:31. Reason: language |
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2018-05-31, 11:19 | Link #24 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Convergence is simply the fact that certain actions or events will always occur in a given World Line (the so called attractor fields). Mayuri dying in the beta world line is one of those attractor fields, so as long they stay in a given world line, such attractor fields will always happen unless a major change allow them to shift the world line completely. Your suggestion is a poor attempt to make a conditionnal world jump, even though it goes against the entire concept of the reading steiner. The reading steiner only overwrite the new world line Okarin's memories with the one who has been trying to deal with world line changes. With your explanation, this means that the Okarin we have followed thus far has been overwritten without him realizing, which in turn doesn't make sense with RS. Why? Because in the middle of his struggle, he had to cancel out previous dmails, yet after everything done for so long, he never was overwritten himself, even though you keep claiming other worlds still go on parallel to his. This is a fatal contradiction with not only the Okarin we follow, but it is also contradicting everyone else reading steiner, which only occured after a certain number of world line shift occured. If your assumption is correct, then you brought to yourself major narrative issues: 1) Okarin should not be able to maintain all of his memories with the RS, because other Okarin who are in "parallel worlds" would overwrite him at some point if the events of their worlds occur in parallel to his 2) Other characters reading steiner wouldn't work the way it is now, because your implication is that they receive informations from other worlds. This begs the question about the timing and the "linear nature" of their respective flash back, be it Feiris, Luka or Kurisu. The SG universe works as follows: <<<<<<World Line 1>>>>> => <<<<<<World Line 2>>>>> => <<<<<<World Line 3>>>>> But what you are suggesting: =============================World Line 1=======================>>>>> ....................................|| ....................................V =============================World Line 2=======================>>>>> .................................................. ................................|| .................................................. ................................V =============================World Line 3=======================>>>>> Red arrows representing a world line shift. This couldn't possibly happen because every Okabin overwritten by the current Okarin would follow his path and meddle with dmails, which means world 1 would potentially overwrite again world 2 okarin then overwrite the Okarin in world 3. The assumption that other world lines continue after the jump completely fail flat since the convergence would make other events happen to those world lines too, which would lead to a RS spagetthi. What's worse is that your explaination goes completely chaotic the moment we introduce time leap: unless every okarin time leap at the same time for the same period, time will flow differently for them, meaning that the actual events of their respective world lines won't line up because the date won't be the same. For example, Okarin had to time leap several time few hours in the past when he was looking for the IBN 5100 with Moeka. But what about the Okarin from the other worlds who don't follow Moeka but do something else, like the one who is dating Luka? This means that for the first one, he is still in July 29th, but the second one is in July 30tgh because he didn't time leap. Now, please tell me how present Okarin after jumping on the moeka world line wasn't overwritten by the one in Luka's world line, even though Luka worldline was dealt before Moeka's? With your claim, it means that normally, the Okarin in Luka's timeline would finish his mission first because he didn't time leap as much as the Okarin in Moeka's timeline. Consequently, the "past okarin" would have overwrote the "present okarin" fixing the next Dmail. This never happened. Quote:
All I've stated in my arguments are facts Okarin learned first hand: the shift only occurs when the -past- changes, any other interactions with the past doesn't have any effect whatsoever. You are just musing over elements that have no logic to apply in the context given to the characters. Quote:
There -are- iterations of the world one after another. The fact a world ceases to exist doesn't mean any lasting effect "shouldn't happen", exactly because of the restructuration of the world -does not involve time rewind-. This is the most important thing when it comes to world line shift: the world does NOT rewind itself, because time has already flew. The illustration used by John Titor is spot on: the current present of a world shift to another line, but the cause of the shift had a lasting effect. In a layman term, the restrucation doesn't cancel what was already done. Let's use that analogy: you bought a drink from a vending machine. Few seconds later, let's assume it got destroyed by a truck crashing on it. Then the day after that, another vending machine with different drinks take its place. The drink you have bought doesn't magically disappear. This example looks completely out of context, but it is just simple as that: the world destroyed its current state and reconfigured itself. This doesn't mean the Dmail itself is deleted whatsoever. They came from the previous version of that world, simple at that. The current world -cannot- create that dmail, but it is from the previous world that indeed existed for a certain period of time. The world changes aspects of itself to accomodate the existence of the Dmail. It doesn't prevent the dmail to exist.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2018-05-31 at 11:45. |
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2018-05-31, 11:33 | Link #25 |
User of the "Fast Draw"
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Okabe's life really is just constant suffering. Though I suppose you could say this is another necessary experience. An up front reminder of the costs of inaction. Trying to save Kurisu without the result being the alpha timeline is hard, brutal, and traumatic. But if he just sits around even the beta timeline will be hell.
And if the theory is right that his interactions with Amadeus allowed for the creation of a time machine...then he can't interact with it anymore. Can't use that as a crutch to push away the pain of losing Kurisu. If he can't stand losing her yet again then he'll have to push ahead and resume the efforts to save her and reach the best case scenario world line.
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2018-05-31, 12:46 | Link #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I see...Those are some powerful arguments. If they were laid at Okabe, he couldn't delude himself from the truth. And to be fair, he has had a lot of time to think about this stuff. While his demeanor sometimes makes one forget, he's a scientifically minded dude.
Spaghetti: Would have to make more assumptions to wriggle out of it, like "There are many Okabes but ones with RS are limited" and "Events beyond his present world don't trigger RS" Time leap: "When Okabe with RS time leaps, it's always to a parallel world that he hasn't visited in his own subjective past" "Time leap experiments will always connect to another world, D-Mails not always" Aaand you get the idea. No matter how much I wanted to believe, at some point I'd have to give up and accept the elegant solution.
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2018-05-31, 12:50 | Link #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas, US
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To reach a happy ending, Okabe has to sacrifice so much. But it's all worth it in the end. |
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2018-05-31, 12:59 | Link #29 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Quote:
It's like I said. You are denying everything that the story establishes, and are replacing it with made up mechanics and conventions that were never mentioned in the context of this story. |
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2018-05-31, 13:22 | Link #30 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Quote:
But after reading Klashikari's refutations, I changed that opinion. I think Okabe is likely well beyond having any such doubts at this point in the story.
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2018-05-31, 13:33 | Link #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
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I thought da date and time didn't change? teh email kurisu got at the and of the show is dated 2010/08/17, but it was just new year in 2011 when Okabe landed!
Also, the differences in character from Kurisu to Amadeus here is very obvious! It seems like this kurisu is more tsun than amadeus... |
2018-05-31, 14:25 | Link #32 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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2018-05-31, 14:27 | Link #33 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Quote:
As for Kurisu's behaviour, that's to be expected since the time they have spent together is quite longer compared to Amadeus Kurisu and Okarin.
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2018-05-31, 14:33 | Link #34 |
大佐
Join Date: Jun 2013
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This is essentially the same scene as in episode 22 of the original anime, where Okabe is erasing the very first D-Mail of him writing about seeing the dead Kurisu at Radio Kaikan, that led to the world line shift, from a world where the attractor field converges to kill Mayuri to a world line where Kurisu is dead.
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2018-06-03, 11:24 | Link #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I kind of handwaved that point away before...it was always a little strange that the worldline shifted from Okabe's action of going through with the hack. Since that wasn't messing with time in any way.
It makes more sense now, since even that action had a D-Mail as its condition. Very clever. And it was a good refresher of what happened. What bothers me is how they have no idea what switched Okabe to an Alpha worldline to begin with, yet Kurisu seems somewhat confident that sending this D-Mail will "fix" whatever it was. She must know something I don't.
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2018-06-03, 12:28 | Link #39 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas, US
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