Love Live! Sunshine - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[novalysis]

I wonder whether this episode might be a fakeout, and the real You drama is yet to come.

Some thoughts:

1. I still don't see the Second Years as a trio from this. Riko and You still happens to be two class-mates in the same year that share a common friend.

2. While Chika does know something is troubling You, the fact that the heart-to-heart conversation was done through Riko means that You hasn't still confronted Chika directly. Chika went to You, and it is possible that from Chika's perspective, the problem was related to the performance, and she still isn't aware the disquiet You has about the state of their friendship.

3. You still hasn't found a reason to join Aqours, besides her friendship with Chika. Chika wants to shine, and she wants to shine with a group of friends, and not just do something with her oldest childhood friend together. That much You has learnt, but what about You herself? Once again, You conspicuously deviates from the other 7 members of the group in motivation.

Of course, it's possible to argue that the episode has answered those three potentially unresolved elements in Episode 11, subtly and indirectly in some cases. But I think the potential is there for the You-Chika plot-thread to re-erupt again, since I get the sense that the conclusion papered over the syndromes of the crack, while the underlying problem hasn't been dragged out into the open and resolved.

[Master_Yoma]

That is a very nice throw You did to Mari that will teach her to grab her breasts

[Wandering Soul]

Excellent episode. The character interactions were great and you could really see where each character was coming from. It was nice to see Mari try to make sure You didn't go through a similar thing that she went through. I also like how it was a chat with Riko that helped You through this rather than one with Chika.

That was a good throw that You used on Mari

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I wonder whether this episode might be a fakeout, and the real You drama is yet to come.

Some thoughts:

1. I still don't see the Second Years as a trio from this. Riko and You still happens to be two class-mates in the same year that share a common friend.

2. While Chika does know something is troubling You, the fact that the heart-to-heart conversation was done through Riko means that You hasn't still confronted Chika directly. Chika went to You, and it is possible that from Chika's perspective, the problem was related to the performance, and she still isn't aware the disquiet You has about the state of their friendship.

3. You still hasn't found a reason to join Aqours, besides her friendship with Chika. Chika wants to shine, and she wants to shine with a group of friends, and not just do something with her oldest childhood friend together. That much You has learnt, but what about You herself? Once again, You conspicuously deviates from the other 7 members of the group in motivation.

Of course, it's possible to argue that the episode has answered those three potentially unresolved elements in Episode 11, subtly and indirectly in some cases. But I think the potential is there for the You-Chika plot-thread to re-erupt again, since I get the sense that the conclusion papered over the syndromes of the crack, while the underlying problem hasn't been dragged out into the open and resolved.

you're killing me inside

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by novalysis

1. I still don't see the Second Years as a trio from this. Riko and You still happens to be two class-mates in the same year that share a common friend.

I agree with your points except for this one. I think by being honest with Riko, she formed a solid relationship with her. I have faith in Riko that she, now knowing how You feels, will keep an eye out for her. While it has been generally viewed that Chika is the connection between You and Riko, I think it's possible that Riko can be the connection between Chika and You.
That phone call was very touching. Based on what Riko said, I'm pretty sure there was some behind the scenes action where Chika had a similar talk to Riko.

[Windy]

There's actually so much that I want to say about this episode as a whole but every time I try to write a longer post it comes across super awkwardly. So what I'll do is leave smaller lines of points I'd like to discuss and if anyone would like to you know how to contact me :3.

* No, this conflict is definitely not over. The waters are calm now, though.
* ChikaRiko symbolism is still really strong this episode over quite a few scenes
* I see a lot of people saying it (not on AS), but no, Chika is NOT dense, or at least nowhere near as dense as they think.
* As much as I relate to You's jealousy, she has every right to be jealous, but its also very, VERY wrong, plus I know how impossible it is to be honest with it with the person you most want to talk about it with
* Mari is extremely perceptive, though the scene in the student council room shows she's not always correct. Not that I'd have blamed her for thinking Riko was the 2nd member if viewers weren't hyper aware. (Plus it seems Dia is well aware of how much attention Chika gives to Riko in particular, given that she of all people SHOULD know that Chika submitted the form with only her and You's name on it but still wouldn't be surprised if Chika/Riko were the two founders)

All in all, this episode was a conflict of emotions for me. The major one being the following.

* You seem(s/ed) to be mentally stuck trying to shine with Chika as a duo, while Chika wants everybody to shine as a group. I don't really see how Chika takes so much blame for neglecting You from a leadership perspective when You doesn't really interact with anyone else very much at all, even Kanan. Its not JUST the greater attention Chika gives to Riko, even if its the biggest contributor to her jealousy.

[Tempester]

This episode was unexpectedly excellent. The wonderful way the melodrama was handled and concluded was an enormous improvement over the crappy overblown melodrama at the end of the OG Love Live's Season 1; there were definitely obvious parallels but the execution was by far tremendously better. It managed to be moving without veering too far on the heavy side or taking massive logical leaps, and contained plenty of hilarious humor and fun character quirks that ALSO contributed to the dramatic developments. On top of that the animation in this episode was really good, even by Sunshine's high standards! What an wonderful episode.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Windy

* You seem(s/ed) to be mentally stuck trying to shine with Chika as a duo, while Chika wants everybody to shine as a group. I don't really see how Chika takes so much blame for neglecting You from a leadership perspective when You doesn't really interact with anyone else very much at all, even Kanan. Its not JUST the greater attention Chika gives to Riko, even if its the biggest contributor to her jealousy.

Erm, what? Are we watching the same show? Did You not talk with Riko this episode? Did You not talk to Mari this episode? Did she not hang out with Ruby the last episode?
The "You doesn't really interact with anyone else" excuse is getting old. You has every right to be jealous. She also has every right to be sad, which is her main feeling this entire episode, not jealousy. Although with that kind of interpretation, it's not hard to see why there's so much desperation to throw You under the bus.
Sympathizing with Chika is the root of the problem. You has done her fair share. She's there for Chika, she talks to others about her feelings, and we pretty much threw out the theory that it's all in You's head because even Mari noticed the distance.
Chika wanting everyone to shine as a group has little to do with her choice in not spending time with You. I already pointed this out elsewhere, but why is it that Chika can suddenly spend time with You when Riko isn't in the picture?
Chika isn't solely a leader. She's a friend, and You's best friend. So yes, from a leadership perspective, what she's doing can be seen as acceptable. But as a friend? Heck no. She can be both, as she is with Riko. But with You? Doing a pretty crappy job.

[Windy]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

Erm, what? Are we watching the same show? Did You not talk with Riko this episode? Did You not talk to Mari this episode? Did she not hang out with Ruby the last episode?

Whoops, I almost forgot that part. Hopefully the character introductions aren't mostly true anymore, cause that would have killed any popularity I'd have gained for her this episode. j/k

Still, you're right. I'll admit that Chika can and should be treating You as a friend better. I still stand by my other points though, and don't want to get into them on this topic because then it would quickly sound like shipping wars to me and I don't want that <_<.

*As a reminder, this episode is You focused, so I'm treating certain interactions as an outlier so its obvious there are more character interactions with her in her own episode

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I wonder whether this episode might be a fakeout, and the real You drama is yet to come.

It depends on just how seriously Sunshine's Director and writing staff want to take this.

Truthfully, Sunshine might now be in uncharted waters for the Love Live series, at least in the anime version. Comparing Sunshine to the same point in the OG, no pairing has been developed as much as Chika/Riko has over the same 11 episodes. And honestly, no pairing has given off as strong a "possible romance" vibe over those same 11 episodes.

Is this by careful intentional design? Or is this a side-effect of other Director/writer aims (such as trying to distinguish the show from the OG)?

Whether to take Sunshine as a very lighthearted show, or a much more serious show, really is the big question for me when it comes to evaluating Sunshine.
Because which approach you go with really can substantially change how the characters and their relationships are perceived.

Taking it lightheartedly - The drama is mostly just mild weekly obstacles to be overcome on the road to greater success, a way to ensure the show isn't entirely fluffy and carries at least some weight. Going by this, I'd expect the Chika/Riko/You drama to be just about over now, maybe just with a self-aware hat-tip or two in the remaining two episodes of Season 1. Chika values her friendships with Riko and You about equally, and the special focus on Riko is largely (if not entirely) due to circumstances (Chika/Riko living next door to each other, Riko having a practical conflict unlike any faced by You at the same time). This is the basic, if unstated, vibe that Sunshine will go with, if it's a largely relaxed lighthearted show.

Taking it very seriously - Chika and Riko have fallen in love with each other, and that explains almost everything when it comes to Chika/Riko/You drama. Chika/Riko is the real deal, even if played with a certain level of subtle and arguably tasteful restraint. And since this is the real deal, no, it's not going away. Eventually, Chika will have to discuss this all with at least some degree of openness with You, because You will keep noticing Chika/Riko closeness if we have a serious romance here.

As you can see, Sunshine changes considerably depending on which approach you take. Chika's character also changes a lot.

Taking it lightheartedly - Chika is just a little oblivious and/or airheaded. She just goes where her emotions take her. She values Riko and You about equally, and is just doing her best at trying to achieve her goals and dreams.

Taking it very seriously - Chika's heart and mind is very focused on Riko, as you'd expect of someone that has just fallen in love with another person. The unfortunate side-effect of this is that Chika is less focused on her best platonic friend You. With Riko no longer physically present to capture Chika's attention, Chika is now better-able to notice subtle hints of concern and sadness coming from You. Chika tries to address this with a special visit "for practice". Chika and Riko likely want to keep their relationship somewhat discreet from the rest of Aqours, and also have it smoothly integrate into Aqours (Riko's gift to the rest of Aqours being a brilliant part of that, if so).

One big possible twist here: Chika and Riko are now more invested in the other person's dream than they are their own. In other words, Chika loves Riko so much that Riko being a successful pianist now means more to Chika than Chika's own school idol dream. On the flip-side, Riko loves Chika so much that Riko feels deeply invested in Aqours success and wants Aqours to succeed largely for Chika's sake.


I'll leave it at that for now. Right now, I'm truly not sure which of these two approaches is the best to take. And I find it hard to think of a "middle way" between them.

[playmaker2k]

TripleR went full shipping mode on us.

I think they'll go the light route since it's an ensemble cast of main characters and not just Chika and Riko. The rest of the girls still need to build strong relationships too. The more the merrier.

I just want to point out that no one has brought up the return of (Perfect) Chika with a bow again.
Just repeating myself here, but that should be her default accessory. Seriously. the #2 slot is automatically hers if it happens or if this is her permanent stage look.

The performance was amazing. The pixy glitter and Chika's solo with the choral-style harmonizing in the beginning was glorious.
I haven't heard a LL song arranged in that manner before.

[Windy]

Originally Posted by playmaker2k

I just want to point out that no one has brought up (Perfect) Chika with a bow again.
Just repeating myself here, but that should be her default accessory. Seriously. the #2 slot is automatically hers if it happens.

Chika does look rather nice with an oversized bow. I'd prefer a different color than red though, like the white one she wore on this insert.

[playmaker2k]

Any bow is fine for (Perfect) Chika.
A single accessory can change a person's whole look. This statement is relevant irl too.

Nork, you got to photoshop Nozomi on that screenshot of You judo tossing Mari and call it, The Anti-Washi Movement.
Steps 1 -3 by You Captain, Watanabe-Sensei. It's a brochure for self-defense.

[Nork22]

Originally Posted by playmaker2k

Nork, you got to photoshop Nozomi on that screenshot of You judo tossing Mari and call it, The Anti-Washi Movement.

Eh, I'm not that good with photo-shopping. However this was seen on my twitter feed.


Captain You, out to protect our seas from evil hamsters!

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

I agree with your points except for this one. I think by being honest with Riko, she formed a solid relationship with her. I have faith in Riko that she, now knowing how You feels, will keep an eye out for her. While it has been generally viewed that Chika is the connection between You and Riko, I think it's possible that Riko can be the connection between Chika and You.
That phone call was very touching. Based on what Riko said, I'm pretty sure there was some behind the scenes action where Chika had a similar talk to Riko.

For me, the worrying part is that Chika still isn't aware that You's insecurities extend beyond the Qualifiers, and associates this incident with the pressure of the Qualifiers. Indeed, if your diagnosis is that the blame for You's troubles is not You's perspective, as Mari diagnose, but Chika's difficulty in balancing so many social relationships at once without diminishing her oldest friendship; then this problem is by no means solved.

Furthermore, note that neither Riko nor You have a relationship with each other beyond Chika. I think the awkwardness of You being unable to say anything to Riko during the group phone call with the rest of Aqours is emblematic of this. What Riko did was a start, and indeed she's reaching across the aisle. But I'm not sure just how much does she realize that You feels shut out of Chika's life increasingly.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It depends on just how seriously Sunshine's Director and writing staff want to take this.

Note that we don't need the entire issue to be about a crisis of gender identity for Chika for the dramatic route to be taken. In my view, Riko and Chika are in a Class S relationship - a romantic two girl friendship that doesn't necessarily mean that both of them are homosexual per-say - merely in an intense, different kind of friendship that may or may not become something else altogether down the line. And while most Class S usually have the "girls will grow out of it clause", I get the sense that this relationship is Class S in the sense that Riko and Chika's bond is not built on any notion of sexual identity or sexual attraction per-say (and the anime will present such question as ambiguously out of the scope of the series time-frame); but rather Riko being the first non-childhood friend confidante that Chika has made. Certainly many of the outs of Class S friendships are completely unavailable in Love Live Sunshine because it's an idol anime where hinting one of the characters may have a boyfriend even in the future is a death-sentence.

The middle road could easily be something like this: Riko is Chika's first genuinely deep confidante that Chika befriended under the terms of adulthood. On the other hand, Chika and You's friendship are deeply rooted in their childhood identities. The problem is, while You thinks that Aqours the the Last Hurrah of Chika and You's childhood, for Chika, Aqours is the first blossoming of her adulthood. Naturally, in the highly all consuming and intense environment of the School Idol sports, because Chika is treating Love Live in the terms of "coming of age", naturally, she's gravitating intensely to a friendship built on more "mature" terms - hence, she ends up confiding to Riko and not You. In other words, Riko represents You getting locked out of Chika's adulthood; or at least the fear there-off. Whether or not this goes beyond the stage of platonic confidante is another issue altogether I think LLSS will coyly side-step.

That being said, an interesting character exercise would be to imagine that Riko was male and Chika was female (or vice versa). I hope that one day, a future Love Live series will have a mixed cast of females and males in the same Idol club; but I'm not sure whether the fanbase can stomach that.

[judasmartel]

Ladies and gentlemen, a round of applause for You Watanabe, the only young woman in history to successfully counter the infamous Washi Washi move, with no less than a freaking German suplex.

[Nork22]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I hope that one day, a future Love Live series will have a mixed cast of females and males in the same Idol club; but I'm not sure whether the fanbase can stomach that.

I remember a franchise that tried that once. Suffice to say that there was a huge backlash (fuelled along having 4 of the regulars female idols "cut" out) that it took a year later for them to apologise to fans about how they went about announcing the details and giving mixed messages about where they wanted the franchise to go. At least one good thing out of all of this, it spawn a male version spinoff of this franchise call SideM which has it's own growing fanbase and a lot of potential talent.

However at this point, I'm not interested in seeing a mixed sex idol group simply because it can really divide the fanbase and Love Live is all about showcasing girls chasing their dreams and building a great friendship during their times as idols. Yuri romance was a bonus.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Nork22

I remember a franchise that tried that once. Suffice to say that there was a huge backlash (fuelled along having 4 of the regulars female idols "cut" out) that it took a year later for them to apologise to fans about how they went about announcing the details and giving mixed messages about where they wanted the franchise to go. At least one good thing out of all of this, it spawn a male version spinoff of this franchise call SideM which has it's own growing fanbase and a lot of potential talent.

However at this point, I'm not interested in seeing a mixed sex idol group simply because it can really divide the fanbase and Love Live is all about showcasing girls chasing their dreams and building a great friendship during their times as idols. Yuri romance was a bonus.

In all probability, if LL ever tries to go down the road, my bet is that they'd first try the waters by floating and promoting a boy-band as part of a spinoff of the franchise, and creating a season or a series of OVAs that explores how Love Live would be like in the boy-band idol context - and to see how well this flies with the audience and whether it can acquire a fanbase. Or, even more likely they'd create Boy Band rivals and see whether they get a reception the same as ARISE.

[Kakurin]

Megane-You is a win. Full support for that.

As for the episode, pretty good, liked it, perhaps the one I enjoyed the most out of the eleven thus far. The performance at the end was excellent both from a song and a choreography standpoint. Far superior to any of the previous ones.

Saitō's ED was also good.

[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by Nork22

Eh, I'm not that good with photo-shopping. However this was seen on my twitter feed.

Images

You the Sailor!

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

You should add Hanayo-chan as the helmsman...