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Benigmatica · 2016-09-05, 08:15

I knew it, Lord Roid Brehm is gonna use Mikumo Guynemer to spread the Var Syndrome across the galaxy instead of King Heinz Nerich Windermere.

Honestly, Roid's ambition is getting out of control!

Tormenk · 2016-09-05, 09:01

The scene at Karlise was pretty great for both Chaos' side and the Aerial Knights. Also at this point with all the build-up for Wright's supposed actions of using the dimensional bomb, I hope it's played straight that he indeed was responsible, even if just to be the fall guy. It would feel like too much of a cheap-move to shift the blame to a third-party, thereby averting Hayate's crisis of faith. Though in all likelihood, the shady side of NUNs no doubt played a great part in all of this and the blame would probably just simply fall on them in the end.

Annorax · 2016-09-05, 09:45

I dont get this... I mean isnt Wirght working with Windamere inpedendant faction? So what is the issue here with him? NUN had a dimensional weapon is bad, but isnt it used on NUN themselves.

DragoonKain3 · 2016-09-05, 10:12

So definitely 'Roid' and Mikumo has a connection. Well, that's one thing to check off in my theory, although it still up in the air if being the 'star singer' has any ties with the past. But it's all coming together now...

Interesting though that it was King Gramia who ordered the wreckage to be repaired. If indeed Gramia was the last host, and Gramia was the one who gave the info about that VF-22 carrying Hayate's dad, then something might be afoot here. Gramia had Hayate killed, put in cockpit, had the plane fly auto-pilot to drop the bomb, where Windermere conveniently was filming at that precise moment? Possible....

Thess · 2016-09-05, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annorax

I dont get this... I mean isnt Wirght working with Windamere inpedendant faction? So what is the issue here with him? NUN had a dimensional weapon is bad, but isnt it used on NUN themselves.

What is so difficult to grasp about this? Would you like anyone to drop a worse than atomic bomb in your country? Millions of civilians were killed and, according to the novels, so were the majority of their white knight spuad led by Lord Andria who tried to stop the unknown bomber. The only survivor was 12 years old Keith who was ordered to fly higher by Andria.

They didn't want the bomb used. I mean, they had no idea the bomber was Wright until they discovered his corpse in the VF. I'm not sure if it was the NUNS who were behind the bombing (at least with that target, they were obviously going to use that or threaten Gramia to surrender because they would use it), because I suspect Epsilon, instead, as the ones behind the incident with Wright unwilling or trying to stop them (getting killed and framed). It'll be a cheap way out Hayate's existential crisis because he has a massive daddy complex, but eh, I don't expect Wright to be revealed as a sociopath, okay.

And yeah, this episode has such a cliché set up which makes me wish there'll be a twist. Roid has Mikumo and Heinz wants to talk to Freyja, Hayate and Mirage and he wants them alive (I'm sure Hayate and Mirage are just included by plot convenience so Bogue wouldn't kill them

) kind of sets the way for Mikumo's Giant Glowing Ranka potential plot devicey brainwashed doom and gloom singer in the end (it was either her or Freyja in this role. I'm happy Freyja was spared of the abduction) while Heinz looks like he's turning against Roid's plan and following his heart/wind for once in his life. He's been doing what other people said since the show began, it's understandable because he is a child, but he was always unhappy and saw himself and his opinion as worthless beyond his role as a sacrificial pawn to his family, Roid and Windermere. Ugh, really Windermere needs social services.

Triple_R · 2016-09-05, 10:33

A very solid episode. Some good dialogue. Very good emotional intensity without feeling overdone (except maybe Bogue, but hey, that's very in-character for him, lol).

Freyja handled herself better here than she did back in Episode 8, and that was good to see. Hayate didn't do much, but the show did a good job of conveying the weight of the overall situation as it applied to him. Mirage had some very good lines.

But for me, the stars of the episode were Mikumo and Roid. Mikumo's short action scene was really cool, but Roid topped it with his gloriously dramatic villainy.

The big Mikumo/Roid meeting did not disappoint, and I love how Roid actually made me think a little of Bleach's Aizen here, lol.

Roid and the Aerial Knights' treatment of Hayate/Freyja/Mirage was actually admirably restrained. Frejya is a dirty traitor in the eyes of at least some of them, and Hayate is the son of a truly infamous enemy. I suppose the Aerial Knights might find the idea of men beating up defenseless women to be morally repulsive, so that could explain Freyja being unharmed until Bogue lost his temper with her singing. However, that doesn't explain them not roughing up Hayate. It's interesting... in their own minds, the Aerial Knights probably see themselves as great noble heroes, var-use notwithstanding. So they won't lower themselves to mistreating even the most hated of enemies.

On the negative side - While the dialogue was good, Delta has become a very talky show, that's kinda light on the action side. I probably would have liked a more thrilling chase/capture scene for the Hayate trio. This episode also had some mild realism issues for me. I found it a little surprising that Freyja was allowed to sing as long as she did - I'm honestly glad Bogue ended it because I would have found it totally unbelievable for him to tolerate Freyja singing to the very end of her song, given how Bogue views Freyja.

On the whole, a very good episode with some strong moments. That being said, I'm a little worried about the next episode. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of next episode mostly being a big political show trial. This show has already become a bit too talky for my liking. I'm also slightly worried that they'll actually have Freyja give a singing defense of herself, which could be horribly cheesy.

Still, the Roid/Mikumo side of the story is fun, and I hope that one or the other or both makes a good final antagonist.

Thess · 2016-09-05, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falulu hime

Ignorance all are waiting to find out who will choose Hаyatе. From the beginning of the season. But I am curious with who will be Mikumо. She will not be with Hаyatе. I have no desire love triangle turn into a square / rectangle.
I know Mikumo still maturing. But it is possible right now for someone to win her heart. I have someone in mind, but it not Roid.
I want to hear your suggestions.

I don't think she'll be with anyone romantically? Walkure will rescue her. I guess that Keith may play a role not because of Mikumo, but because he's the one set up against Roid and his baby brother will probably ask him.

magnuskn · 2016-09-05, 11:08

Alright, subs are out. At least the plot is progressing, but it's all a bit "meh" and unsatisfying, IMO. I just don't get a feel of urgency by how the plot is unfolding.

Mistyclear · 2016-09-05, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

So definitely 'Roid' and Mikumo has a connection. Well, that's one thing to check off in my theory, although it still up in the air if being the 'star singer' has any ties with the past. But it's all coming together now...

Interesting though that it was King Gramia who ordered the wreckage to be repaired. If indeed Gramia was the last host, and Gramia was the one who gave the info about that VF-22 carrying Hayate's dad, then something might be afoot here. Gramia had Hayate killed, put in cockpit, had the plane fly auto-pilot to drop the bomb, where Windermere conveniently was filming at that precise moment? Possible....

Uh Hayate is still alive though....

Benigmatica · 2016-09-05, 11:12

@magnuskn
Not only that, but some of the sub-plots might not have a conclusion such as the love triangle among the main characters, as well as the NUNS where some officials couldn't come up with a plan to deal with the Windermere Kingdom.

Darthtabby · 2016-09-05, 11:21

Roid has... interesting hobbies.

(Seriously, wouldn't some ordinary handcuffs have made more sense?)

I know they're trying to get a bit of love triangle in there, but did they need to make Hayate the motivations for both girls?

Other than that, I'm finding the show pretty good again for the most part. But I still feel that slow third quarter hurt the series.

FlareKnight · 2016-09-05, 11:49

Just counting the episodes until Bogue hopefully gets killed off.

Making a big dramatic statement at the crater doesn't erase what they've done. Mind control, terrorism, trying to establish their own personal galactic empire. Just using the dead as an excuse for their own grab for power. Slowly killing off their young King for that power grab.

Does seem pretty likely that Hayate's father was either killed and the plane performed the job on auto-pilot or he was forced into it and then killed immediately after. Either way...makes no sense that he'd be ordered to commit an atrocity and follow through with it simply due to orders.

Some nice development for Mikumo though. Had some good scenes with the girls and started to open up. Certainly hope she can find a way by the end of this show to explore her life a bit more. Fine to love singing and continue with that, but will be nice for her to realize there is more out there.

Kazu-kun · 2016-09-05, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Still, the Roid/Mikumo side of the story is fun, and I hope that one or the other or both makes a good final antagonist.

This is the part I like the least myself. Roid is too much of a cartoon villain right now, and the only way I could see Mikumo being an antagonist is by brainwashing, and then she wouldn't be Mikumo anymore. None of this is fun to me.

SleepingTerror · 2016-09-05, 13:29

If they wanted me to pay attention to anything in this episode, they shouldn't have included the scene with little Freyja singing Seikan Hikou. Half kidding.
I've read some theories that Freyja infected Hayate's father with Var, which caused him to drop the bomb. To be honest, this doesn't seem too far off. Statistically speaking, Freyja should have died, so why was she standing a safe distance from the bomb site? Of course, there's no way she would have done it out of free will, but also no way this was merely an accident.

If there's one thing I learned from this episode, it's that you can't trust people with glasses. While the Windermere knights have primarily been the villains of the show, Roid is the mastermind. This episode made him remind me so much of Grace..

Triple_R · 2016-09-05, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

This is the part I like the least myself. Roid is too much of cartoon villain right now, and the only way I could see Mikumo being an antagonist is by brainwashing, and then she wouldn't be Mikumo anymore. None of this is fun to me.

I'll take amusement and simple entertainment where I can because they haven't been in high supply in recent weeks.

Delta's more serious side has some strengths, but it's very slowly paced and has some weaknesses. I think a good case can be made that Macross Delta tends to be best when it's just trying to have fun and be good entertainment.

Father Hentai · 2016-09-05, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Alright, subs are out. At least the plot is progressing, but it's all a bit "meh" and unsatisfying, IMO. I just don't get a feel of urgency by how the plot is unfolding.

Maybe this opens up more franchise options? Well, I guess they won't handle all plots at one at the end, so they might continue the story in another franchise.

Kazu-kun · 2016-09-05, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'll take amusement and simple entertainment where I can because they haven't been in high supply in recent weeks.

Delta's more serious side has some strengths, but it's very slowly paced and has some weaknesses. I think a good case can be made that Macross Delta tends to be best when it's just trying to have fun and be good entertainment.

I liked the first version of your post better. The Ange Vierge remark was on point.

Father Hentai · 2016-09-05, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annorax

I dont get this... I mean isnt Wirght working with Windamere inpedendant faction? So what is the issue here with him? NUN had a dimensional weapon is bad, but isnt it used on NUN themselves.

My guesses here is that the reason was Mikumo. Imagine what would happened if she was fully potential of her singing 7 years ago. Also it would not feed on her life energy as it does with Heinz. What if all was done to avoid that NUN would have finished this? Before anybody complains about that I am more sceptical about NUN compared to windermere. Windermere are in common national oriented. There is no reason for them to use a mind control weapon against other. At least they were seven years ago.

Triple_R · 2016-09-05, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I liked the first version of your post better. The Ange Vierge remark was on point.

Well there you go. Just treat Macross Delta like it's Ange Vierge with some fabulous male villains.

Anh_Minh · 2016-09-05, 15:51

That last scene... Doesn't it look like Roid is into bondage, but got into it really recently?

View Poll Results: Macross Delta - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10	4	23.53%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	2	11.76%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	5	29.41%
7 out of 10 : Good	1	5.88%
6 out of 10 : Average	2	11.76%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	2	11.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	1	5.88%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

2016-09-05, 09:01	Link #22
Tormenk Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gaf's Room	The scene at Karlise was pretty great for both Chaos' side and the Aerial Knights. Also at this point with all the build-up for Wright's supposed actions of using the dimensional bomb, I hope it's played straight that he indeed was responsible, even if just to be the fall guy. It would feel like too much of a cheap-move to shift the blame to a third-party, thereby averting Hayate's crisis of faith. Though in all likelihood, the shady side of NUNs no doubt played a great part in all of this and the blame would probably just simply fall on them in the end. __________________ "Are you afraid of change? Or are you afraid to change?" "Wheel turns, river flows and life goes on." "Best way to kill a man, is to leave him alone." "Until you come, until we close our eyes."

2016-09-05, 10:12	Link #24
DragoonKain3 Osana-Najimi Shipper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt. Ordeals	So definitely 'Roid' and Mikumo has a connection. Well, that's one thing to check off in my theory, although it still up in the air if being the 'star singer' has any ties with the past. But it's all coming together now... Interesting though that it was King Gramia who ordered the wreckage to be repaired. If indeed Gramia was the last host, and Gramia was the one who gave the info about that VF-22 carrying Hayate's dad, then something might be afoot here. Gramia had Hayate killed, put in cockpit, had the plane fly auto-pilot to drop the bomb, where Windermere conveniently was filming at that precise moment? Possible.... __________________ Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)

2016-09-05, 10:33	Link #26
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	A very solid episode. Some good dialogue. Very good emotional intensity without feeling overdone (except maybe Bogue, but hey, that's very in-character for him, lol). Freyja handled herself better here than she did back in Episode 8, and that was good to see. Hayate didn't do much, but the show did a good job of conveying the weight of the overall situation as it applied to him. Mirage had some very good lines. But for me, the stars of the episode were Mikumo and Roid. Mikumo's short action scene was really cool, but Roid topped it with his gloriously dramatic villainy. The big Mikumo/Roid meeting did not disappoint, and I love how Roid actually made me think a little of Bleach's Aizen here, lol. Roid and the Aerial Knights' treatment of Hayate/Freyja/Mirage was actually admirably restrained. Frejya is a dirty traitor in the eyes of at least some of them, and Hayate is the son of a truly infamous enemy. I suppose the Aerial Knights might find the idea of men beating up defenseless women to be morally repulsive, so that could explain Freyja being unharmed until Bogue lost his temper with her singing. However, that doesn't explain them not roughing up Hayate. It's interesting... in their own minds, the Aerial Knights probably see themselves as great noble heroes, var-use notwithstanding. So they won't lower themselves to mistreating even the most hated of enemies. On the negative side - While the dialogue was good, Delta has become a very talky show, that's kinda light on the action side. I probably would have liked a more thrilling chase/capture scene for the Hayate trio. This episode also had some mild realism issues for me. I found it a little surprising that Freyja was allowed to sing as long as she did - I'm honestly glad Bogue ended it because I would have found it totally unbelievable for him to tolerate Freyja singing to the very end of her song, given how Bogue views Freyja. On the whole, a very good episode with some strong moments. That being said, I'm a little worried about the next episode. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of next episode mostly being a big political show trial. This show has already become a bit too talky for my liking. I'm also slightly worried that they'll actually have Freyja give a singing defense of herself, which could be horribly cheesy. Still, the Roid/Mikumo side of the story is fun, and I hope that one or the other or both makes a good final antagonist. __________________

2016-09-05, 11:08	Link #28
magnuskn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 48	Alright, subs are out. At least the plot is progressing, but it's all a bit "meh" and unsatisfying, IMO. I just don't get a feel of urgency by how the plot is unfolding. __________________

2016-09-05, 08:15	Link #21
Benigmatica Deadpan Rambler Join Date: Nov 2012	I knew it, Lord Roid Brehm is gonna use Mikumo Guynemer to spread the Var Syndrome across the galaxy instead of King Heinz Nerich Windermere. Honestly, Roid's ambition is getting out of control!

2016-09-05, 09:45	Link #23
Annorax Member Join Date: Apr 2016	I dont get this... I mean isnt Wirght working with Windamere inpedendant faction? So what is the issue here with him? NUN had a dimensional weapon is bad, but isnt it used on NUN themselves.

2016-09-05, 11:12	Link #30
Benigmatica Deadpan Rambler Join Date: Nov 2012	@magnuskn Not only that, but some of the sub-plots might not have a conclusion such as the love triangle among the main characters, as well as the NUNS where some officials couldn't come up with a plan to deal with the Windermere Kingdom.

2016-09-05, 11:21	Link #31
Darthtabby Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009	Roid has... interesting hobbies. (Seriously, wouldn't some ordinary handcuffs have made more sense?) I know they're trying to get a bit of love triangle in there, but did they need to make Hayate the motivations for both girls? Other than that, I'm finding the show pretty good again for the most part. But I still feel that slow third quarter hurt the series.

2016-09-05, 11:49	Link #32
FlareKnight User of the "Fast Draw" Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada	Just counting the episodes until Bogue hopefully gets killed off. Making a big dramatic statement at the crater doesn't erase what they've done. Mind control, terrorism, trying to establish their own personal galactic empire. Just using the dead as an excuse for their own grab for power. Slowly killing off their young King for that power grab. Does seem pretty likely that Hayate's father was either killed and the plane performed the job on auto-pilot or he was forced into it and then killed immediately after. Either way...makes no sense that he'd be ordered to commit an atrocity and follow through with it simply due to orders. Some nice development for Mikumo though. Had some good scenes with the girls and started to open up. Certainly hope she can find a way by the end of this show to explore her life a bit more. Fine to love singing and continue with that, but will be nice for her to realize there is more out there. __________________ Anime-Evo

2016-09-05, 13:29	Link #34
SleepingTerror green hair, don't care Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: under my covers	If they wanted me to pay attention to anything in this episode, they shouldn't have included the scene with little Freyja singing Seikan Hikou. Half kidding. I've read some theories that Freyja infected Hayate's father with Var, which caused him to drop the bomb. To be honest, this doesn't seem too far off. Statistically speaking, Freyja should have died, so why was she standing a safe distance from the bomb site? Of course, there's no way she would have done it out of free will, but also no way this was merely an accident. If there's one thing I learned from this episode, it's that you can't trust people with glasses. While the Windermere knights have primarily been the villains of the show, Roid is the mastermind. This episode made him remind me so much of Grace..

2016-09-05, 15:51	Link #40
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	That last scene... Doesn't it look like Roid is into bondage, but got into it really recently?