Love Live! Sunshine - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Requiem-x]

@judasmartel

Pretty good question. In the end, a ripoff just feels like the original trying to tell you its a different thing, while a homage uses stuff from the original, but it brings other stuff, which sometimes might be highlighted by the original parts, or just get used as a nice wink and nod to the fans. Mind you, depending on the execution, a homage could come off as a ripoff. In this case, being able to use names and songs from the original LL is actually a double edged sword for sunshine.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Anyway, a very nice Episode 4. Hanamaru and Ruby have a really sweet and lovely friendship.

This is one parallel with the original that I don't mind seeing in sunshine.

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

I was one of those people who thought Ruby was going to be too manufactured for her own good. I got several degrees of legitimate heartwarming instead. I'm usually not a fan of exposition heavy content, but this knew exactly how to tell it and precisely what to show; it's like a microcosm of a good KEY story rolled into episode, and that is not a statement I make lightly

Hanamaru and Ruby were previously there just to be cute; now they're adorable on the inside~

Is someone watching rewrite and planetarian at the same time? Besides me, that is. And yes, that was a worry I had myself, that Ruby would try too hard and come off as cliche, but she turned out much nicer.

Originally Posted by novalysis

I have an alternate theory about the Third Years. They managed to break through all the way and were on the verge of making nationals. And then one of the girls had to leave the group in a Kotori-like or Honoka-like scenario analogous to the drama in the first season, which torpedoed the group's chances of making finals. But unlike Muse, the club never had a chance to recover, as Mari shortly afterwards left to study overseas.

That's a pretty good theory, though now I have to wonder, could it be the director had a similar scenario planned for the original version? Well, most likely not, but if this is really a different version of that, its coming out much better now.

[Dextro]

Well they really are laying it on thick with the u's comparisons aren't they? Jeez! They are really risking crossing the thin line between homage and complete copying of the original show. I can really see what Tempester is feeling and completely understand. Luckly for me though Love Live was always something I took in a more laid-back fashion so I'm more than happy with the references.

Also I actually find the new girls more interesting as characters than I felt about most of the original cast at the same point in the show. But to be fair, it helps tremendously that there's no one being as annoying as Niko was at the beginning of the original show

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

As for similarities, well, people who can't get over Muse will always find ways to talk shit about Aqours about those similarities.

Pointing out similarities is equivalent to talking shit now? Wow the Aqours circle is very insecure. You're not going to enjoy the show very much if you keep thinking like that throughout the entire series. As is, there are more comparisons to be expected.

My complaints have nothing to do with similarities or comparisons. The rush and pacing and the overacting and craziness of characters were the main complaints. The rush and pacing only affected episode 1 because everything has slowed down ever since, so that is no longer an issue. The overacting has also toned down after episode 1 and first half of episode 2, that is also no longer an issue. The craziness is really just Mari, just one character so that isn't a big deal (most have at least 1 or 2 character they like less from both groups, don't get offended). Overall the show has been great and enjoyable to watch. The characters developed much earlier and they made me care about some of them more than the muse characters this early into the show. The music chosen so far on the other hand doesn't hold up to the earlier Muse music honestly, but i have heard of all their singles and subunit songs and they are great.

[Wandering Soul]

I think this may be my favorite episode yet. Ruby and Hanamaru have such a sweet friendship and I really liked seeing both girls help the other realize what they wanted to do. I also like how Hana was willing to confront Dia and tell her to properly listen to Ruby.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by R.LocK

I don't think Chika'll stop making Aqours imitate Muse until Kanan comes back to school

I'm hoping this is what actually happens. While I don't feel too strongly about outright references (and story parallels are inconsequential), what stings about Sunshine!! is said references aren't covering anything weak but smothering something really good. Episode 2 piled it on with no rhyme or reason (Dia's scene is gold though), but here it made sense most of the time until Chika decided to ape the stairs climbing and rooftop practice

I'm curious to know what non-OG viewers thought of Hanamaru and Ruby talking about Rin though

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

I'm curious to know what non-OG viewers thought of Hanamaru and Ruby talking about Rin though

I wonder what they think of all the references that have been made and of u's in general.

Will the newcomers please stand up?

[Pen3]

Maybe they dropped the show already lol. Kazu-kun is the only new viewer here that i can think of and he hasn't made a comment since episode 1.

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by Pen3

Pointing out similarities is equivalent to talking shit now?

What are you talking about and why are you generalizing now? He said "people who can't get over Muse" will keep using comparisons as a way to talk shit and that's true.

Wow the Aqours circle is very insecure.

Rude and unnecessary.

You're not going to enjoy the show very much if you keep thinking like that throughout the entire series. As is, there are more comparisons to be expected.

If anything he won't enjoy the community. He'll still enjoy the show regardless of similarities and comparisons. I believe all of us have done them a couple of times already these past episodes as a way for homage. Heck, the characters themselves do it by reflecting their situation on Muse.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Seihai

What are you talking about and why are you generalizing now? He said "people who can't get over Muse" will keep using comparisons as a way to talk shit and that's true.

But people new to the franchise and haven't seen Muse are making the exact same comparisons, you don't even need to watch S1-2 to notice it in Sunshine. Now if they were comparing the seiyuu's talent, then i would understand the talking shit part, but this has nothing to do with it at all. People compare Gundam all the time and i don't feel anyone is talking shit to the new or old at all. There are more people looking down on Muse than they are on Aqours if you read around. If you check out other LL communities, it isn't hard to see that Aqua>Muse easily.

I still see nothing bad about pointing out similarities in the events, you can't help but notice it because its thrown in your face. Nobody is saying that Muse did that scene better or anything like that. In fact Sunshine did everything better than Muse did for the same scenarios.

[Benigmatica]

I liked Hanamaru Kunikida's reason for joining the school idol club. While she's similar to Rin Hoshizora when it comes to her insecurities of not standing out in the crowd nor having that charm, I feel that Sunrise did a good job of highlighting it which gives Ruby Kurosawa the reason to invite her friend and join the club together, because she believes that Hanamaru is pretty and can do anything to be a school idol.

Meanwhile, I like how Dia Kurosawa compares herself to Eli Ayase even though she currently hates school idols (and secretly hiding her µ's fandom). Heck, even Ruby Kurosawa is similar to Hanayo Koizumi minus the rice obsession.

While it's good that a few of Aqours' members are similar to µ's, I believe that they'll grow out to become their own character in the future!

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Pen3

But people new to the franchise and haven't seen Muse are making the exact same comparisons, you don't even need to watch S1-2 to notice it in Sunshine. Now if they were comparing the seiyuu's talent, then i would understand the talking shit part, but this has nothing to do with it at all. People compare Gundam all the time and i don't feel anyone is talking shit to the new or old at all. There are more people looking down on Muse than they are on Aqours if you read around. If you check out other LL communities, it isn't hard to see that Aqua>Muse easily.

I get the impression that this is bothering you, Pen. I'm not saying this to be accusatory, because I'd also be very bothered by it if I was reading what you are reading.

So here's two little things that might cheer you up some.

Right now, on MAL, Love Live Season 1 is rated ever-so-slightly higher than Sunshine is (and Love Live Season 2 is rated significantly higher than Season 1). Now, I'm not a big fan of MAL or its ratings, but it can't be denied that MAL has a huge anime fan community. So when you factor everything in, the Aqours vs. μ's situation is maybe not as imbalanced as it may seem to you. On the whole, it may in fact be decently balanced - I kinda like how close Love Live and Sunshine are on MAL, though I also think both shows are underrated there.

Reddit is not the only thing that counts.

Originally Posted by Pen3

Nobody is saying that Muse did that scene better or anything like that. In fact Sunshine did everything better than Muse did for the same scenarios.

I disagree with that. There's certain things I think Sunshine has done better or smoother, but there's also certain things I think the original LL did better.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I get the impression that this is bothering you, Pen. I'm not saying this to be accusatory, because I'd also be very bothered by it if I was reading what you are reading.

Sunshine doing somethings better isn't whats bothering me, but the idea that pointing out similarities is equivalent to talking shit does bother me. When i read through them, i see not one comment stating that Muse did the same scene better or the actors performed better. Just simply stating similarities. It isn't about Muse fans not able to move on, but something you cannot help but notice, even if you weren't a Muse fan or just watched S1 a week ago. Just like when someone was complaining that the characters were overacting and people were chewing on him saying he is comparing to Muse. When in fact he did not watch S1 or S2 when making the comment.

[judasmartel]

New viewer here btw, though I kept hearing about Muse since people in our group keep talking about them. Sometimes, I wonder what would I think of Aqours had I watched the OG first before Sunshine.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

New viewer here btw, though I kept hearing about Muse since people in our group keep talking about them. Sometimes, I wonder what would I think of Aqours had I watched the OG first before Sunshine.

When the characters keep talking about them 3-5 times per episode, it is pretty hard to pretend it didn't happen.

[Nork22]

Finally got round to my 2nd viewing and with subs this time, and now can form a better opinion of the episode.

If anything, yes they have slowed the pace down to introduce us to Zuramaru and GanbaRuby. I didn't really think much of Ruby or Maru when they were first introduced but this episode has made me like them a bit more. Ruby's shyness isn't too overplayed as she's starting to get more and more used to seeing Chika and the others, and when she finally got to try out being a school idol for a day, it certainly ignited her spirits and have now decided to chase her dream. With Maru, I applaud her selflessness. She essentially wanted to see her friend chase her dream and to see her happy while she is happy to sit in the shadows and cheer her onwards. I really enjoyed the part where she happily went back to the library and contemplated on the achievement in making Ruby become a school idol and it would have been a nice way to close off the emotional side of things, but that's not how it works for a core member. The bit where Ruby then convinces Maru to join her as well kinda got corny, if a bit cliche.

What also flowed beneath the current story was also hints on the history and the dynamics of the 3rd years. You know that there must have been a fallout between Kanan and Dia with the way the show is avoiding them both contacting each other, while Mari plays mediator to bridge that friendship again. Hopefully with Yohane's indoctrination to Aqours in the next episode, we can then move on with the 3rd years story once and for all.

Can I also mention how good the BGM music has been so far? Each of the piece seem to know how to bring out the best in the scenes along with the emotions to accompany it. And the ending song, Yume Kataru yori Yume Utaou, this time sung as a duet by Ruby and Maru was fantastic and it showcases how good King and AiAi are as singers. Can't wait till they announce the release date for the OST.

Lastly, aren't these the most adorable μ's wannabes ever?

Images

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Originally Posted by Pen3

There are more people looking down on Muse than they are on Aqours if you read around. If you check out other LL communities, it isn't hard to see that Aqua>Muse easily.

I don't see it. Not here, not reddit, not Otonokizaka.org, not even CR.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Nork22

I don't see it. Not here, not reddit, not Otonokizaka.org, not even CR.

Just simply go through any episode discussion on reddit and find "better" and "best" for all the comparisons. Comments like this is very common, "They gotta be the very best idols there ever was". "Better" than what? Muse. "Best" compared to what? Mostly Muse a few comparing to other Aqua girls. I haven't seen a single comment that says just as good as Muse or even plain "good", its always better or best. Now you could say there are some that might be comparing to a standard, but the context has Muse as the standard.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Sunshine!! has a higher CR rating than the OG, but all that tells me is most of the Sunshine!! viewers are people who liked the OG a lot to begin with AKA sequel inflation syndrome. Alas reddit is not the be all end all and on MAL, searching through the Sunshine!! subforum turns up nothing conclusive. If more people like Aqours more power to them, and honestly, the difference looks even smaller than Nico's chest. Also just to drive the point home there are comparisons between the shows, the individual characters, and Aqours and Muse aka micro-comparisons so even if someone likes Aqours better they could still like the OG anime better ect.

No but seriously why are we talking about this

[Pen3]

Because people are being offended when the shows similarities are being mentioned. I have no idea myself because nobody said OG was better than Sunshine, just stating similarities.

[Benigmatica]

@Pen3
I won't be surprised in 5 years time when a new generation of school idols being compared to µ's and Aqours.

Now then, I wonder if making a school idol club was also Dia's dream but she couldn't do it in her previous school years?

[AP24]

According to the title of the book featuring µ's in this episode, it's been at least 5 years since µ's time.

We already knew that Chika is Honoka's counterpart in Aqours. It was also obvious already that Dia is Eli's counterpart and Dia herself claimed in this episode that she wanted to be like Eli. Ruby is indeed Hanayo's counterpart as they were both very shy at first and love school idols very much. The episode also told us that Hanamaru is Rin's counterpart even though they're opposites in athletic skills. The past few episodes showed that Mari is Nozomi's counterpart and You is Kotori's.

I'm not sure about the rest mostly because of the school years they're in. If all their school years match then that leaves Riko as Umi's counterpart, Yoshiko as Maki's and Kanan as Nico's. But if you ignore their years then Riko is more like Maki's counterpart than Umi's. Yoshiko seems more like Nico's counterpart than Maki's from what I've seen. Kanan seems more like Umi's counterpart than Nico's.