Macross Delta - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Gravitas Free Zone]

I still want to see where Mikumo lives.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Ernest Johnson was Gramia's instructor before the independence war. He left before the war started. He described him as full of pride for his people that he doesn't want help from outsiders. Gramia being the White Knight of Darwent is excellent at one on one duels but he sucks at fleet battles according to Ernest. Gramia on the other hand fondly remembers Ernest rarely loses a battle. 100 wins to 8 loses in his career.

More precisely, Ernest calls Gramia a bad student but a formidable man. He says that that Gramia was the old-fashioned knightly type, preferring fair, one-on-one fights - so he's not one suited for fleet battles. However, he will stop at nothing to protect his people and his pride.

Spoiler for ep 12:

Gramia knew that Ernest would attack while Heinz was recuperating, so he decided to trick him to gain advantage. He waited until the Elysion folded out and in that exact moment he folded to Ragna. Space Dubai capitulated in a matter of minutes, so he has every reason to believe that it will be the same with Ragna... so by the time the Elysion arrives back it will be too late and Windermere will have the upper hand. Then again, he probably doesn't know about the plan to destroy the Protoculture ruins. (Holy crap, SOMEONE SAVE THE SEA-CATS!!!! ;__; I'm suddenly so worried about them. Please, not the sea kitties, please.)

I don't see Gramia bombing his own country. If anything, what Ernest says about him just confirms that he's most likely not the one behind the incident.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Spoiler for ep 12:

(Holy crap, SOMEONE SAVE THE SEA-CATS!!!! ;__; I'm suddenly so worried about them. Please, not the sea kitties, please.)

The NUNS must be stopped! I'll be siding with Keith if they hurt a single seacat!

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I don't see Gramia bombing his own country. If anything, what Ernest says about him just confirms that he's most likely not the one behind the incident.

Pretty much. He seems angry that happened and the NUNs claiming they did it probably just makes him angrier. Because they are sullying his honor. Fortunately Freyja is genre savvy and knows this is Macross and the only way to end this war is singing hard enough until it reaches out the other side (Heinz).

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by Thess

The NUNS must be stopped! I'll be siding with Keith if they hurt a single seacat!

I second this motion, not the seacats!

[Dash_Hunter]

I expected an action heavy episode and instead we got more plot and exposition, not that it's something bad but I wanted my space battle.

From the NUNS perspective and without researching more their solution is logical, the ruins work in Windermere's advantage so let's blow them up, thankfully Lady M persuaded them not to do it. I hope they reveal Lady M sooner rather than later, I know Reddy has the Maria Fokina Barnrose theory and it would be awesome, but I don't see them going with such an obscure character.

So, no pilot replacement for Delta platoon? *sigh* I just hope they don't take what Hayate said last episode literally and next episode he's suddenly fighting Keith on equal terms, him and Mirage together maybe, but he's not good enough yet to do it alone. Talking about Mirage, good for her for becoming Delta 2, hopefully her new position will help with her character development.

[Tenzen12]

So either is Arad completely stupid, or Mirage is more capable than people here gave her credit for...

[charles883]

It seems that next episode, something big is happening that Hayate, Mirage even Keith was shocked? Possibly third party revealed their true intention?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

So either is Arad completely stupid, or Mirage is more capable than people here gave her credit for...

His other options are Chuck who has no commanding traits and a rookie. He's stupid because he didn't hire new people and listened to Hayate though.

That said, it'll hopefully make Mirage develop at long last! She's starting to get a small shred of growth!

Originally Posted by charles883

It seems that next episode, something big is happening that Hayate, Mirage even Keith was shocked? Possibly third party revealed their true intention?

Spoiler for this episode:

NUNS want to bomb the ruins in Ragna. Maybe he's reacting to the explosions.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Subs released!

[Father Hentai]

Spoiler for Poor Hayate.:

He is numb... Hayate just catapulted himself into the long long waited love triangle.

[Tenzen12]

[QUOTE=Thess;5877316]His other options are Chuck who has no commanding traits and a rookie. He's stupid because he didn't hire new people and listened to Hayate though.

That said, it'll hopefully make Mirage develop at long last! She's starting to get a small shred of growth![/QUOTE ]


Yeah in same way he was stupid when recruited undisciplined civilian with zero piloting ability.

And just because we didn't see Chuck giving any orders doesn't mean he isn't able. Not having any commanding traits is pure speculation.

[FlareKnight]

Well...congrats Mirage on getting that promotion. Kind of silly to put that much pressure on her when she hasn't shown to be that capable in the first place of handling what she currently had on her plate. Honestly have Arad take on less responsibility with his current job and transfer it mostly to handling the Delta Squadron. Seems like a better move if they want to survive this.

I tend to agree that the plan of blowing up the ruins is sound....but would be a lot more sound if the guy handing the orders wasn't a prick who was basically chuckling evilly. Give him a stereotypical evil mustache and it would have been complete.

Honestly if blowing them up is that risky...then how about just doing excessive damage? I don't know about protoculture tech, but if you bust up enough parts it shouldn't function that well. Shouldn't have to outright blow them up, just controlled explosions of a smaller scale to limit the risk of a chain reaction.

No good reason that they don't have some additional pilots getting on board. I get that they don't have many who have been exposed that much to the protection of the walkure but....frankly you need bodies.

At least there was a nice little moment for Hayate and Freyja. At least loving her songs triggered some romantic feelings on her side. Seems like you could naturally have something grow from that.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Well that is something. Mikumo knows how Heinz feels using the Shrine of Time and it is not observations made of his previous performances. She recognizes the Sigur Valens. This raises all sorts of flags.

Dare I say it Mikumo could be the only other known Protoculture alive besides Mina Forte.

Mikumo could be at most a Shrine Maiden like Sara Nome or she could be Anima Spiritia. She probably has gaps in her memory like Mina did. Mina Forte was the system administrator of Ouroboros ruins. Mikumo could serve a similar function.

Ernest was a merc hired as an instructor by the Windermere government. Gramia was a bad student who keeps talking about knights ignoring modern warfare. Insists on duel and not fleet commander material. Gramia would rather not face Ernest head on as he knows he is formidable. So skips him going for a beeline on Ragna at the very last moment.

Oh I don't know if Mirage realizes it yet but wanting a rematch is how Milia ended up marrying her grandpa.

It's like declaration of war to Freyja.

It's Hayate's fault he is a natural player. He made both hearts skip a beat. He loving Freyja's songs and will protect her, and telling Mirage to rely him.... along Chuck and Arad. Mirage is irked with that.

[Darthtabby]

I would have made the NUNS representative coldly ruthless rather than a smirking douchebag. That was laying it on a bit thick.

Interestingly, NUNS deciding that its their call whether or not to destroy Ragna's protoculture ruins is probably the biggest evidence the show has provided to back up the Windemerean assertion that NUNS doesn't treat the natives on equal terms.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

So either is Arad completely stupid, or Mirage is more capable than people here gave her credit for...

As someone on another board noted, you don't have to be the best combatant in a unit to be a ranking officer with command responsibilities. Mirage already knows the capabilities of the pilots in Delta and she already has their trust; bringing in a seasoned outside officer as the new Delta 2 would also be a solid choice, but promoting Mirage isn't a terrible choice per se. That said, given their dire circumstances bringing in a seasoned officer would be the more realistic choice, but i guess we're going for trial by fire here.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

I would have made the NUNS representative coldly ruthless rather than a smirking douchebag. That was laying it on a bit thick.

Interestingly, NUNS deciding that its their call whether or not to destroy Ragna's protoculture ruins is probably the biggest evidence the show has provided to back up the Windemerean assertion that NUNS doesn't treat the natives on equal terms.

It's like the Ragna people had no say in what to do or not do with their own planet, huh? Same episode that Ernest paints certain king positively.

[Tak]

Hayate is such a mood popper. He was so close of completing a sentence with the right buzzwords...

- Tak

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Thess

It's like the Ragna people had no say in what to do or not do with their own planet, huh? Same episode that Ernest paints certain king positively.

The Ragnan government had to approve of the use of Reaction Weapons as it is their turf. Lady M's political wrangling managed to postpone it.

Thess going again the NUN are badguys to make Windermere good guys again.

Mind you the Kingdom of Wind hasn't done one bit of positive affection from the audience in 12 episodes.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

The Ragnan government had to approve of the use of Reaction Weapons as it is their turf.

Sure, post the screencap about this. I'll be waiting.

Seriously, are you completely naive when the NUN representative has a "Totally Evil Guy" design and characterization?

[AkitoW013]

Originally Posted by Thess

Sure, post the screencap about this. I'll be waiting.

Seriously, are you completely naive when the NUN representative has a "Totally Evil Guy" design and characterization?

Because some NUNS being portrayed as incompetent, uncaring and making questionable decisions means the whole NUNS is evil right?