Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 22 Discussion Thread

[B214]

Come to think of it Biscuit did talk to Mika before the battle. Maybe Biscuit left some sort of message to Mika then.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Also, I have to note that Irenesharda’s theory that the Turbines chicks are mostly the victims of abused and other shit like that seem to be correct. Lafter said that The Turbines is pretty much the best place they ever got and it’s all thanks to Naze’s kindness that they were saved and protected (and even flourishing: dem babies) there even though Naze often disguised it as him claiming them to be his women. Now I kinda have this feeling that Naze will be cool even if some of his wives decided to leave him after they found a better place (and better men) where they wanted to stay and spend their lives.

[novakai]

well that probably how Akihiro x Lafter happens if it ever does in the series

[Router25]

Originally Posted by dienrachen

I'm mad for Carta just getting out of there. Sure, probably those two Grazes saved her... but at least show us some plausible way of doing that, dangit. This way it feels like a cop-out.

in the previous episode, her graze was headlocked with the jaws of death. now we see her two subordinates carrying her graze without the head.

call me crazy but a traumatic sight of seeing someone significant dying in front of you would only look at that direction and just be lost in the moment, while those not involved would not care and proceed in doing what needs to be done. And also Carta's subordinates loyalty to give priority to saving their commander(maybe doing a boosted grab on carta's graze and fleeing). also note that it could be that the two grazes were not that far behind the Barbatos when that scene happened .

I think there was the chance that Mika would snap and go full destroy mode on her or others beating her up but remember that this is a battlefield, blink or you die (in this case tekkadan stared too much they stopped moving)

[Skaddix]

On Kudelia sure she is useful now but come on we had to wait 20 Episodes for this while she ate a crapton of Screen Time...And as for lacking Knowledge wtf was she doing during the trip...instead of making soup maybe she should have done some research and planning.

As for Mika, him being Ax Crazy has been evident for a long time. Orga is the only thing that has kept him on a leash at all.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

On Kudelia sure she is useful now but come on we had to wait 20 Episodes for this while she ate a crapton of Screen Time...And as for lacking Knowledge wtf was she doing during the trip...instead of making soup maybe she should have done some research and planning.

I’ll give you the complaints that some of her scenes can be considered unnecessary. But it’s a double edged sword nonetheless. On one hand, she need that screentime coz she’s an important supporting character who is pretty much the trigger of all the events that’s happening and audience should know her well just like how they should know Biscuit or even Orga. On the other hand, for 15+ episodes, she was confined and restricted to Tekkadan’s and all the military and the shady mafia business that she didn’t understand that much, and obviously she can’t do much.

And then she got mixed up in the colony-liberation scheme set by Nobliss. Seriously, it’s not her fault for not knowing much about Dort colonies and its worker’s situation coz her focus was the liberation of the Martian’s half-metal rights from Arbrau, which is unrelated to the welfare of workers from colonies owned by an entirely different Economic Bloc (African Union).

In short, she never get the chance to really show off what she’s good at until episode 18 forward. But even before that, her “naive” self in the earlier episodes did some really good actions & decisions. Below is the very useful things she did so far:

• Intentionally hiring the 3rd group of CGS (the Space Rats) and not the douchebags adults from the other groups in CGS
• Smelling her own dad’s betrayal and decided to stick with (and employ & finance) the newly-formed Tekkadan
• Teaching Tekkadan boys how to read & write which should make them more useful than before
• Making a good deal with McMurdo from Teiwaz in which positive effect can still be felt even now (the train accomodation is mostly thanks to Teiwaz)
• Forced Nobliss to do her bidding to spread her broadcast uncensored
• Giving the big F-U live-broadcast to Gjallarhorn and make them stop attacking at the most crucial time
• Arranging a ship to get out of the island by using her deal with Montag
• And her spot-on plan this episode.

[Skaddix]

I think she wanted people closer to her age
U see I think my problem is number 2 on your list...it made me think we were going to get a way better character instead she is cooking and pining after Mika until episode 18
Good but come on let Atra do it
Meh that was a split because Orga signed the main deal
Smart but again a little to late
The content of the speech was irrelevant, the broadcast itself did it, unless you think they wouldnt have fired after the speech without ARBRAU complaining
Good I guess but a bit obvious, boat to get off island pretty obvious
Again Smart Finally

My problem is again I know why the character was useless but I am not a writer but come on surely there is some way to better integrate her then what we got. Cause by the time she got useful it looks like plenty of people were done with the character...and you cant blame them having to wait for 18 episodes to real payoff is a bit of an ask. I mean sheeh that is like what after the 1 OP and ED were done that is pretty darn late

[Galaxian]

Mika was the MVP of the episode.

Although, anyone watching this episode out context would could have thought that Mika and Orga bad guys what with the lightning and everything.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Mika was the MVP of the episode.

Although, anyone watching this episode out context would could have thought that Mika and Orga bad guys what with the lightning and everything.

I think that's what they were aiming for. Mika may have gotten Orga back on his feet but it very much strikes me as a quick fix that perpetuates an unhealthy mentality in the long run. Merrybit's reaction seems to suggest that as well. I just hope they mend their ways before there's too much tragedy but in a way Mika might have the right of it. In their current predicament stalling for long term solutions might have been even worse when they need to move quickly. As Mika said, it's either kill or be killed and that very often leads to having to pick the least worse choice.

I also hope this episode makes certain people re-evaluate their impression of Mika. All too often I hear the complaint that Mika is too passive and lets Orga decide everything when it seems clear to me that Mika guides Orga just as deliberately as Orga guides Mika. Mika knew exactly what he was doing - it was almost manipulative even.

[Skaddix]

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Mika was the MVP of the episode.

Although, anyone watching this episode out context would could have thought that Mika and Orga bad guys what with the lightning and everything.

That be interesting to see in a Gundam Series...two guys go off the rails and become bigger Tyrants then Gjhallahorn it reminds me of the Justice Lords (DC) where The Flash (Voice of Reason/Fun) dies and the whole team goes Dark

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

I think she wanted people closer to her age

No, she specifically said in the first episode to chose and hire the ones who are more earnest and understand the pain and suffering of Martian kids.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

U see I think my problem is number 2 on your list...it made me think we were going to get a way better character instead she is cooking and pining after Mika until episode 18

Her wit and intelligence is still intact. Her helping to cook & teaching to read & write is her way to be useful in a militaristic environment before and during the journey (otherwise she’d do nothing useful than studying her negotiation material again & again). That's also her way to be socially active with the orphans to interact & understand them more which is her original intention to hire them in the first place. And if you have a problem with the romantic-tease then that’s more personal.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Good but come on let Atra do it

Blame Atra for not suggesting it first. It’s Kudelia that got the initiative.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Meh that was a split because Orga signed the main deal

No, Tekkadan only signed Sakazuki with the Turbines. Kudelia’s deal is the main deal. Without her deal with McMurdo, Tekkadan can only received help from The Turbines and not all Teiwaz facilities & resources.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Smart but again a little to late

Honestly, that being too late is subjective.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

The content of the speech was irrelevant, the broadcast itself did it, unless you think they wouldnt have fired after the speech without ARBRAU complaining

Arbrau didn't do jack shit during the Dort incident. It’s AU who did it. And Kudelia knew that her uncensored broadcast will be seen by every Economic Bloc and certainly understand that the one Bloc who owned Dort will not permit this bad PR to culminate in Kudelia’s demise by Gjallarhorn attacks. They have their own face to save and Kudelia knew it and took advantage of that. Yes, it’s not about the content of her speech but her entire broadcast which is only possible due to her effort and wit after receiving a little bit of luck.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Good I guess but a bit obvious, boat to get off island pretty obvious

Obvious for us, the audience. Not for the characters as Orga didn’t even seem to know how to get one at the time (he’s a low-educated Martian who’s not used to place surrounded by sea). So yeah, thanks to Kudelia's arrangement again.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Again Smart Finally

Like I pointed out, she’s already smart from the beginning. She just need to learn the situation more.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

My problem is again I know why the character was useless but I am not a writer but come on surely there is some way to better integrate her then what we got. Cause by the time she got useful it looks like plenty of people were done with the character...and you cant blame them having to wait for 18 episodes to real payoff is a bit of an ask. I mean sheeh that is like what after the 1 OP and ED were done that is pretty darn late

If you already reached that conclusion and decided to feel that way until the end of the show then feel free to do so. I'm not here to change your mind, but to straighten up some facts.

[Skaddix]

I am not saying she cant change the mind but the plotting did her no favors in my book and besides in one of her most useful episodes...its Mika and Orga's Deal with the Devil that stands out of the most.

[Irenesharda]

That was a very good episode. We get to see how the grief affects Tekkadan over Biscuit's death, but not only that, about how it his Orga the hardest and how all of Tekkadan depends on him. He has no time to adjust to his own sorrow, they need him to tell them what to do next and nobody needs that more than Mika.

It's been awhile since we've have a serious Mika/Orga talk, but this one definitely takes the cake. We've seen Mika and Orga's co-dependence on each other since the beginning, but here, Orga is so tired and so exausted after what happened to Biscuit and his guilt is great as well, but Mika won't let him rest. I have always been hesitant to really call Mika "crazy" but this episode shows there is definitely an imbalance there.
He needs Orga to tell him what to do next, who to kill next, who to destroy next, until they arrive at the place that he promised him. Orga and Mika have a pact, and Mika is going to keep making these demands of Orga until they reach the place they belong, just as Mika will continue to follow Orga's orders. It's a little disturbing, but it's what they're used to, and it does get Orga moving again.

Kudelia is showing her mettle as a leader, no matter what she says, but this time it's Merribit who bemoans that she is feeling useless now.

There's also two revelations this episode. It seems that if it wasn't apparent before, it is now. McGillis is leading on Gaelio. He's manipulating him, using half-truths and emotional words, when he has his own plans. What is his true goal? Is he going to betray Gaelio? Will Gaelio continue his path to becoming the Garma of this series?

We learn about the A-V system and how it is related to Gjallerhorn and the Gundams, but why exactly does McGillis really want Ein and Gaelio to get it? There's a trick here somewhere, but I'm not sure what.

Another revelation is that Naze actually doesn't really have a harem in as much as he has a floating women's shelter. It's kind of how I surmised in the beginning. He calls them all "his women" but they are really just women he has picked up and given homes. The idea that they are all his wives are simply assumptions that Tekkadan gained and her never really confirmed or denied. And it makes sense, since Amida is the only one he really gives any attention anyway.

This is great news for all those who want Lafter and Akihiro together. She's not as attached as we thought.

And so they are all on their way to the parliament by going though Alaska (what is it with Gundam and Alaska?) and Orga is back to talking with his men and they are out for revenge. The older people are against it (and Japan seems to have this anti-revenge rhetoric that is everything), but I hope that Mika and the others kick the crap out of those Gjallerhorn stooges. Carta seems to be going to the Crank route next time, so we'll have to see how Mika stomps on her this next time.

[Skaddix]

Bros Over Hoes Reigns Supreme Again.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

I am not saying she cant change the mind but the plotting did her no favors in my book and besides in one of her most useful episodes...its Mika and Orga's Deal with the Devil that stands out of the most.

Your two points revert back to being subjective & personal taste. And Mika & Orga's scene stand out the most because it's an emotional climax of this episode, while Kudelia's planning-scene is intentionally made in a calm situation so that the audience has better grasp on her plan. No tension or fiery mood needed .

[Skaddix]

Are you really arguing you think they couldnt do better with Kudelia?

I think the most interesting thing Kudelia said is she doesnt wanna be the leader. Which might pave the way for Mika Relationship but Mika seems to be going Full Demon Mode. Of course, We all know how things ended for Joan D'Arc.

You think we ever get a full flashback to the Pact or is it better to keep it shrouded?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Are you really arguing you think they couldnt do better with Kudelia?

They certainly can. Like I already said in my earlier post, some of her contemplating scene can be cut and replaced with something better from Orga, Mika or other Tekkadan boys, or even Fumitan. But I also don't think her screen-time so far ruined her character or anything. All the screen time she received make us understand more about her and feel more intimate which I bet is Okada-Nagai's intention in the first place.

You can also argue that she'll be more "exciting" if the show made her able to do some combat, but I prefer not. See? It's down to personal preference again.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

You think we ever get a full flashback to the Pact or is it better to keep it shrouded?

Which pact?

[Skaddix]

The initial Pact that set Orga and Mika down the path of co-depedence and bloodshed. If this was a Fantasy show you expect them to have signed some soul binding blood contract. Galaxian is right you didnt know better you think these two were the villians. Shame we wont get a season 2 probably, doesn't seem like you can reach a satisfying conclusion that isnt rushed in 3 episodes.

Although I do think the contrast between Orga/Mika/Kudelia and McGillis/Gaelio/Carta is interesting as well.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

First, I have to let this off my chest: I’m kinda mad that Carta can get away scott free off screen like that. She’s not even captured and became prisoner. Just what the hell happened? Did Mika just let her go? There’s no way he’d do that to someone who has killed Biscuit. My guess is that the remaining Carta’s blonde-squad interfered and managed to snatched her Graze. If that’s what happened then I have to commend those blondie-boys for a job well done staying alive and protecting and saving their superior's life. Otherwise, we’ll get more Ein-clones .

I was confused by that two, but I think that was a corporate studio decision. Remember all that flack the show got when Mika shot Crank and those others way in the beginning, killing "defenseless" men and how there was complaints from the Japan audience?
Imagine what they would get if Mika killed a "defenseless" woman in cold blood, even if she was responsible for Biscuit's death? So, probably to avoid controversy, they'll bring her back and have her go one on one and then have Mika kill her the honorable way in a duel or in battle.
They had to show Mika's rage last week, but they could have him kill her like that, so they had to write themselves out of a corner.

Also, I’m sure many people were hoping for Merribit to cheer up Orga. Heck, some of the crazy ones even wanted Merribit to give Orga some grief-sex (seriously, what the hell were they thinking? ). But instead, we have Mika and his creepy-way of cheering up Orga. Orga my man, you really have some balls of steel to be able to put up with Mika . But I don’t think Mika is as crazy as he let out this episode. I think he was intentionally played it a bit harsher to make Orga snap out of it so that Tekkadan kids can survive. Way to go, Mika! Don't these two guys really have a wonderful relationship or what?

I did think she might have been the one to rouse him from his grief (though no, I didn't think sex was the answer. ) but I'm glad they went with Mika instead. I wouldn't count out Mika's crazy side. Somebody wrote a very good estimation of Mika on TVtropes and said that Mika basically outsources some moral parts of his decision-making to Orga, which makes him look sociopathic at times. I think that Orga and Mika do indeed have a dangerous mental relationship in their co-dependence, but it's one that's worked for them so far because of a very delicate balance between the two.

If that balance were ever to shift, then this was a taste of what you would get. Mika needs Orga, and he's going to make sure he addresses those needs until he gets what he was promised. If Orga were to leave Mika, then Mika would fall into and dangerous spiral not know how much he had to destroy or kill to go on the next step, and if Mika was no longer there to push Orga, I think Orga would end up falling into all the emotions he's had to toss aside and he would completely lose his way.

Originally Posted by FerrusManus

I think Mika acted crazy on purpose. I don't think he is really that crazy.

You never know with Mika, we've seen him be on the actually edge of crazy several times. I think perhaps he was giving Orga a taste of what would happen if Orga wasn't there to guide him. Also, Mika probably knows what effect his eyes do have on Orga and that because he needs Orga, he will do whatever he has to, to get him on his feet.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Also, I have to note that Irenesharda’s theory that the Turbines chicks are mostly the victims of abused and other shit like that seem to be correct. Lafter said that The Turbines is pretty much the best place they ever got and it’s all thanks to Naze’s kindness that they were saved and protected (and even flourishing: dem babies) there even though Naze often disguised it as him claiming them to be his women. Now I kinda have this feeling that Naze will be cool even if some of his wives decided to leave him after they found a better place (and better men) where they wanted to stay and spend their lives.

Oh, I think this episode sealed it. I mean, they specifically say that they kids of Tekkadan came up with their own conclusions and it is a reminder that Naze never really confirmed or denied that they were his "wives".

All he said was that they were his women and children, and he really just meant that in a family sense. It's not a harem, it's a shelter.

The only one who I would call Naze's real wife is Amida. All the others are just women of his space women's shelter. He keeps both women and children there as well as helps the children get an education and the women, a job.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

The initial Pact that set Orga and Mika down the path of co-depedence and bloodshed. If this was a Fantasy show you expect them to have signed some soul binding blood contract.

Oh they showed the pact already. It was basically when Orga was saying that he would take Mika to a place they belonged and then Mika said basically "So, if I follow you, you show me things I've never seen?" and Orga told them they were leaving. He extends his hand, stained with his blood towards Mika, who shakes it with his own stained hand, and thus the Pact.

I would like to see how they met and how they came together in the first place and how Mika decided to trust Orga as much as he did, but I guess we'll have to keep waiting for a full flashback.

[Wandering Soul]

I'm upset that Carta got away, but I guess that her crew saved her. They aren't as incompetent as they seem.

Mika may have been creepy and disturbing, but it was necessary to get Orga back on his feet. Mika's method may have been a good short term solution, but one has to wonder if it's a healthy long term one.

Kudealia did a good job securing a safe route while everyone else was depressed. At least she secured them some time until they will have to fight again.