To Aru Majutsu no Index - Light Novel - New Testament Volume 15 Speculation/Theories

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Also Touma already tried viciously killing people, first with Aureoulus and second with the plane terrorist.
Piss off Touma and he will forget hiss own beliefs.


If he isn't dead.

That was before this volume where he had the conversation with Othinus about good and evil.

[Kuroageha]

Yet he still cut off Kamisato.

There is no good or evil when he lets his emotions take over and with his rationality still intact goes along with it.

A talk doesn't changes Touma's very core.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Yet he still cut off Kamisato.

There is no good or evil when he lets his emotions take over and with his rationality still intact goes along with it.

A talk doesn't changes Touma's very core.

Felt like cutting him off. Once again, only someone who is truly evil would deliberately turn away a hand of salvation. Also, he didn't kill the dummy.

[Kuroageha]

He did, Styl just make it faster as leaving him like that would make him suffer a slow death.

There is no white and black in the series.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

He did, Styl just make it faster as leaving him like that would make him suffer a slow death.

There is no white and black in the series.

Touma didn't know he was a supernatural entity that would die because of IB. There's no helping that point, but he chose not to knowingly and willingly strangle him to death before that.

[dniv]

I feel like I disagree with this conversation...

In my opinion, Touma is a person that often acts with the assumption that he can return things to normal and get people to change their minds. He doesn't want to kill people, and unless his emotions completely cloud his judgment or take over or he is possessed by the IT, then he won't try to kill people.

He never actually tried to kill the alchemist in Volume 2, and as far as the terrorists go, he was torturing them, but he didn't kill them. He didn't exactly have a method to contain them without using that level of intensity to stop them from f'ing up the flight.

Even with Yakumi Hisako, he ensured that Rensa would try to protect her or something... he still did what he thought he had to do though.

Touma isn't a static character. He has changed his beliefs greatly over the course of this novel. I think that Touma is the sort of character that will assume the best in others instead of looking down on them or finding their faults.

In this manner, Kamisato is literally the opposite of Touma. He doesn't smile when he's surrounded by girls who like him. He is aware of the fact that they like him and he doesn't want to accept it. He doesn't believe that he could be liked for reasons other than supernatural powers affecting the situation. He doesn't believe in the feelings of the people around him and thinks that they like him just because of his ability. He basically thinks little of humanity, of himself, and of others.

Touma is pretty different. Even if he has a special right hand, that isn't the reason why he acts. It just so happens that he also has a special right hand. It increases his option, but he'd still try to act and die trying even if he didn't have it. That's essentially the core of his character. Kakeru relies on a super strong power to just pile-drive through every situation, but he never really feels like he has earned anything from his victories. Touma on the other hand struggles for everything and comes out of these situations with something good in his grasp.

Oddly enough. Both characters seem to care about maintaining the status Quo. Even if Kakeru is sending people away, his basic character motivation is that he is annoyed that he, himself, and the friends around him are being forced to join the magic side because they were given supernatural powers.

In reality, Kakeru is an interesting character because he is the only character that can accurately criticize Touma for how he is handling his circumstances and for how he feels about things. The two characters are similar enough that they can sort of understand each other in certain ways.

Last volume made it clear that Touma is happier with his life than Kakeru. Kakeru wants to change things; he isn't okay with how things are. He can't appreciate what he already has. Touma appreciates what he has. Even if he is half-dead, starving to death, in a loud, selfish, and noisy environment, getting tormented by the people in his apartment, and absolutely exhausted from all of the difficult events he has been going through, he is infinitely happier than Kamisato Kakeru who just isn't happy at all, and who even seems to have a fake smile.

This comparison was made pretty crystal clear in NT 14. I'm not certain that Kakeru won't end up influencing Touma. Touma has a strange quirk where he is okay with how things are and he doesn't really care about trying to change things. Kakeru is pretty opposite where he wants more freedom because he dislikes the fact that a few individuals with power and controlling everything about the world and stepping over everyone else's feelings.

What I am trying to explain is don't think of neither Touma nor Kakeru as being evil or incompetent. Both parties have their own sets of goals and ways of operating, and I think that they'll both continue to gain character development in the upcoming volumes.

Though I'll go ahead and point out right now that this new volume is most certainly NOT about Kakeru and Touma. Every time we've gotten a synopsis recently, it has been a complete lie... so I really doubt that this volume is going to be about what was said in the synopsis...

[BladeMancer]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Yet he still cut off Kamisato.

There is no good or evil when he lets his emotions take over and with his rationality still intact goes along with it.

A talk doesn't changes Touma's very core.

No. Touma didn't cut off Kamisato, it was his fault for using world rejector on Kamijou's right hand and unleashing the beast within.
Besides, we can rationalize Kamijou's decision. Kamisato is too cynical and hard on himself wanting to rid himself of the power he's gotten because it is enslaving girls. While this might be true, it might also be because they had liked him before and wanted to approach him. Kamisato painted the world in his colors, believing this should be that and that should be this and it should stay that way and even slaughtering all the magic gods in order for him to lose his power. Kamijou tried to convince him but Kamisato refused his advice even after Nephthys sacrificed herself to save Patricia. Kamijou was probably more angry then he had ever been because he wasn't preaching like normal...but talking with nihilistic meaning. If Kamijou's name means the one who purifies gods and slays demons, this is probably the "slays demons" aspect. Kamisato, the demon, refused salvation so Kamijou must slay him.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

No. Touma didn't cut off Kamisato, it was his fault for using world rejector on Kamijou's right hand and unleashing the beast within.
Besides, we can rationalize Kamijou's decision. Kamisato is too cynical and hard on himself wanting to rid himself of the power he's gotten because it is enslaving girls. While this might be true, it might also be because they had liked him before and wanted to approach him. Kamisato painted the world in his colors, believing this should be that and that should be this and it should stay that way and even slaughtering all the magic gods in order for him to lose his power. Kamijou tried to convince him but Kamisato refused his advice even after Nephthys sacrificed herself to save Patricia. Kamijou was probably more angry then he had ever been because he wasn't preaching like normal...but talking with nihilistic meaning. If Kamijou's name means the one who purifies gods and slays demons, this is probably the "slays demons" aspect. Kamisato, the demon, refused salvation so Kamijou must slay him.

Just going to say that this is an interesting interpretation as well.

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

No. Touma didn't cut off Kamisato, it was his fault for using world rejector on Kamijou's right hand and unleashing the beast within.
Besides, we can rationalize Kamijou's decision. Kamisato is too cynical and hard on himself wanting to rid himself of the power he's gotten because it is enslaving girls. While this might be true, it might also be because they had liked him before and wanted to approach him. Kamisato painted the world in his colors, believing this should be that and that should be this and it should stay that way and even slaughtering all the magic gods in order for him to lose his power. Kamijou tried to convince him but Kamisato refused his advice even after Nephthys sacrificed herself to save Patricia. Kamijou was probably more angry then he had ever been because he wasn't preaching like normal...but talking with nihilistic meaning. If Kamijou's name means the one who purifies gods and slays demons, this is probably the "slays demons" aspect. Kamisato, the demon, refused salvation so Kamijou must slay him.

It seems you're confusing the point of the topic, we weren't talking about the fight bu what he was talking about cutting people off.

[BladeMancer]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

It seems you're confusing the point of the topic, we weren't talking about the fight bu what he was talking about cutting people off.

I was attempting to justify Kamijou's reasons for killing Kamisato. Here's a summary (with things I forgot to add in the original comment) of what I stated before.
- Kamisato is very cynical, and he also believes that nothing extremely fortunate can happen to him. He also wants to kill magic gods to return the status quo
- Kamijou disagrees, calling him out and trying to persuade him to think differently and offering him salvation
- Kamisato refuses the hand of salvation and still denies gods, even after the event of a gods miracle (Nephthys saving Patricia from death)
- Kamijou believes Kamisato can't be saved, and attempts to slay him as only a demon would deny god in front of it's miracles. There is a reason his name is the one who purifies gods and slays demons.
See, when he wanted to cut him off Kamijou saw him as a legit demon. Why bother saving those who reject saving? And if he's hellbent on killing someone whose close with you, why not kill them to solve the problem faster.

[Kuroageha]

Because Touma is the cynical one here.
He made a comparison himself, about a fish living out of his natural place under someone.
Touma rejected that before.
Now comes Kamisato who is on the out of water fish's position that rejects his current situation and tries to do something and Touma opposes that, despite Touma is quite living his status quo life.
So at the end both are protecting their comfort zone and Touma gets in the way because Kamisato's quest messes up with his own.

Just because someone doesn't agreed with won't turn him into evil and Touma knew that already, this why I called him hypocritical when he goes with his emotions contradicting his previoua claims, even Othinus told him.

[DragonXX]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Because Touma is the cynical one here.
He made a comparison himself, about a fish living out of his natural place under someone.
Touma rejected that before.
Now comes Kamisato who is on the out of water fish's position that rejects his current situation and tries to do something and Touma opposes that, despite Touma is quite living his status quo life.
So at the end both are protecting their comfort zone and Touma gets in the way because Kamisato's quest messes up with his own.

Just because someone doesn't agreed with won't turn him into evil and Touma knew that already, this why I called him hypocritical when he goes with his emotions contradicting his previoua claims, even Othinus told him.

But Touma already knows he a hypocritical he right out said so in NT9 but that not going to change Touma action, the fact he a hypocritical kind of made him way more human because can you tell me a real life human who is not a hypocritical because all the people I know are hypocritical but that does not mean there not good people.

Touma was only angry at Kamisato and want to beat him up and cutting him off does not mean killing someone and it understandable that Touma would be more mean to Kamisato because they are so must alike. People are alway harder on people who remind them of themself.

I don't think Kamisato is the demon Touma have to slay I think that going to go to someone far worse, maybe someone who enjoy the suffering of other just for there suffering because there are people like that in real life and the people you least want to mean in person. The kind of people who use all there power to stop other people happy ending just because they don't want to see other people happy and there a high chance a person like that is the one who destory Crowley World.

But if I was to say The One Who Purifies Gods and Slays Demons is more so pointing to The Science Side and The Magic Side as a whole but which is which?



How would you like the Characters of Touma, Accel, Hamazura, Kamisato, Mikoto, Index to Growth as characters?

Index need the most character growth she have so far bet the most useless character in NT.

It seen Mikoto is going somewhere in Character growth from NT13 where it go is the question.

Accel have done nothing from NT10.

Hamazura will most likey get major character growth in the level 5 shift.

I say Touma and Kamisato will most likey get character growth as they fight each other do to the two being the same but also different.

I say the next growth Touma should go through is him coming to understanding that there will be a time when thing change and he can't go back which could be an important character dead.

[Kuroageha]

Index needs screentime before in order to have that happening but seeing at how Mikoto is the same despite the large screentime time she got...

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by DragonXX

I say the next growth Touma should go through is him coming to understanding that there will be a time when thing change and he can't go back which could be an important character dead.

now come on, since how many years are people proposed this?
imo i really dont see it happening, at most maybe it goes JoJo-verse-style where a lot of the MCs companions die at the end fight with the big bad+subordinates :/

^she reminds me on the glasses-boy from Area D, a lot of people complained how he suddenly got into a sidekick role and someone else took the MC-position,
at one time a person posted that glasses-boy was a "leading char to the MC", i agree, it is something that is often used in storys where the MC either needs to be find (while being centered in the big plot) or has no ties with the plot but gets dragged into it because of the char, Elizabeth from nantsu no taizai and glasses-boy from Area D are good examples,
Index introduced Touma into the plot but what looked like the "has no ties to the plot outside of his interaction with the introdcing-char" seems to be like in Area Ds or NNTs cases, he is a important part in the big plot integrated in the plans since the beginning,
btw, a char who more or less has such relationship too is Miu and Kenichi from strongest discipline kenichi, but the MC this time was never the center of the big plot, he brought himself into it because of his ties with the "introducing char" (which was Miu even if she didnt intend to bring him into the martial arts world)...

in short, what i want to say is: there is a good chance that we wont see Index getting mroe screentime ever, her role to lead the MC into the plot is done, at most she can act as sidekick or damsel in distress but seeing how kamachi used her in the NT-series i wouldnt be to hopeful :/

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Because Touma is the cynical one here.
He made a comparison himself, about a fish living out of his natural place under someone.
Touma rejected that before.
Now comes Kamisato who is on the out of water fish's position that rejects his current situation and tries to do something and Touma opposes that, despite Touma is quite living his status quo life.
So at the end both are protecting their comfort zone and Touma gets in the way because Kamisato's quest messes up with his own.

Just because someone doesn't agreed with won't turn him into evil and Touma knew that already, this why I called him hypocritical when he goes with his emotions contradicting his previoua claims, even Othinus told him.

You're gonna have to be more specific. The only hypocritical aspect of Touma mentioned in 14 was how hechose the ideal answer of trying to save both sisters when circumstances dictated that only one could live or both would die.

Touma rejecting Kamisato had nothing to do with comfort zone. He simply believed in the best of Kamisato where the boy in question didn't.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Because Touma is the cynical one here.
He made a comparison himself, about a fish living out of his natural place under someone.
Touma rejected that before.
Now comes Kamisato who is on the out of water fish's position that rejects his current situation and tries to do something and Touma opposes that, despite Touma is quite living his status quo life.
So at the end both are protecting their comfort zone and Touma gets in the way because Kamisato's quest messes up with his own.

Just because someone doesn't agreed with won't turn him into evil and Touma knew that already, this why I called him hypocritical when he goes with his emotions contradicting his previoua claims, even Othinus told him.

Regardless of Touma's apparent hypocrisy he has always had the same goals: maintain the SQ after tragedy (though in reality his goals are just to do whatever the hell he wants ). Just because he changes his methods in every novel doesn't mean that he is a hypocrite.

Touma has never been a paragon of justice and him butting heads with Kamisato isn't out of character at all. Oddly enough, I can make a decent comparison between specific aspects of Touma and Souma (from SnS) since both characters seem to have the quality where they will act in a way that matches what they feel is right regardless of the big picture. Touma makes a point of not needing to know what is going on when he gets involved in a situation. For that reason, I don't see anything contradictory or hypocritical of him in trying to stop Kamisato from messing with his friends.

One thing is clear to me for sure, Touma will be getting some important character development when he clashes with Kamisato in the future. The reason why the clash in NT 14 ended where it did was because Kamisato still hadn't developed his reasoning enough. As soon as Kamisato obtains a clearer understanding of what he is trying to do and why, Touma will stop being able to ignore Kamisato's rhetoric. At that point, he'll be forced to grow.

I wonder if Kamijou will always be the sort of person who tries to protect the SQ or if he'll someday be convinced to join the attempt at derailing the power of the big wigs like Aleister and Laura.

[allfictions]

I'm just as excited for this volume as I am for Batman Vs Superman.

And by that I mean not at all.

[BladeMancer]

Originally Posted by allfictions

I'm just as excited for this volume as I am for Batman Vs Superman.

And by that I mean not at all.

Ok then. I'm pretty hyped for it, and I do hope the series will pull something that will make it great again.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by allfictions

I'm just as excited for this volume as I am for Batman Vs Superman.

And by that I mean not at all.

Lol. That's harsh. I expect it to be good. The question is whether it will be amazing or not... Either way, I'm going to be optimistic.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by dniv

Lol. That's harsh. I expect it to be good. The question is whether it will be amazing or not... Either way, I'm going to be optimistic.

lol, that are also my thoughts about batman vs superman