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steam fish · 2015-06-13, 19:15

since shiro can trace gilgameshs noble phantasms now with a little deficiency, can he just use those against other opponents and obliterate them like gilgamesh did to leysrett and sella?

Rising Dragon · 2015-06-13, 19:45

Pretty much, yeah. What's more is that he's been in Unlimited Blade Works twice now before that, so he's already got a massive armory to pull that trick off with.

GreyZone · 2015-06-13, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by steam fish

since shiro can trace gilgameshs noble phantasms now with a little deficiency, can he just use those against other opponents and obliterate them like gilgamesh did to leysrett and sella?

In his current state, yes, definitly, however in the long term... well the "memory/skill absorbtion" he got through the battle with Archer does not remain forever, so he will lose those "cheat skills" again after some time. Also people like him have to be careful not to reveal the existence of the reality marble inside him. Because he would get hunted by the magic association. But technically yes, if he "re-trains" the abilities on his own and still has Rin's magic supply, then he could fare quite well against most opponents.

Geburah · 2015-06-13, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Saber has "Instinct", not "Eye of the mind". The ones with "Eye of the mind (false)" are actually Sasaki Kojirou and Heracles, while Archer EMIYA has "Eye of the mind (true)".

Yeah, you are right, my mind was on another place when i was typing that xD

By the way Leysritt strength is on par with Rider (around B-) so is more like that Gil just overwhelmed her with NPs.

Shirou and Archer can use sword spam but unlike certain King of Heroes, the cost of multiple tracings can pile up quick. On Gil case its just the cost of opening the GoB no mattter how many NPs draws

Rising Dragon · 2015-06-13, 21:03

Yeah, and Gilgamesh spent 10 years effectively gorging himself on prana from the orphans in the church's basement, so he's not running out any time soon.

IIRC in the VN, Shirou's problem is that once he opened up his magic circuit, well, he could only use one magic circuit, hence his need for Rin to supply him with prana. In total, he has 27, so chances are once he's able to utilize them all, he should have the prana necessary to utilize Unlimited Blade Works, given that Archer could, who probably had the same one circuit limitation at first in his Fate-ish route.

Nymbryxion · 2015-06-13, 21:23

I think in VN Gilgamesh was intending to purge all the world with the grail and then rule over those eligible to survive it but in the anime it seems he just wants to kill them all. If this is the case, wouldn't using Ea but a much more simpler method since its a world destroyer?

Rising Dragon · 2015-06-13, 21:36

He mentioned previously he'd rule over the survivors, actually. Ea wouldn't just destroy all of humanity, but it'd destroy the planet with it, and even if none of the humans survive, I doubt Gilgamesh has any intention of destroying his property with them.

steam fish · 2015-06-13, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyZone

In his current state, yes, definitly, however in the long term... well the "memory/skill absorbtion" he got through the battle with Archer does not remain forever, so he will lose those "cheat skills" again after some time. Also people like him have to be careful not to reveal the existence of the reality marble inside him. Because he would get hunted by the magic association. But technically yes, if he "re-trains" the abilities on his own and still has Rin's magic supply, then he could fare quite well against most opponents.

why wouldnt the skills he got from archer stay? its only a limited time thing?

TwilightsCall · 2015-06-13, 22:28

As expected, Assassin gets the shaft

I was really hoping for something beautiful after his short but amazing stint in Season 1, but nope, just going to have him lose. They could have at least explained why he lost, rather than just making it seem like Saber was "better." The short story time was nice though, at least they had that.

It seems like ufotable is trying to minimize Archer's role in the final confrontation, which is probably for the best. Also, we clearly saw Rin dunk Shinji into the mud earlier, how exactly was he supposed to survive that...?

Either way, next week's episode looks to be promising. Hopefully it will make up for Assassin being robbed this week.

Rising Dragon · 2015-06-13, 22:34

It wasn't that Saber was better, it just didn't outright state why he lost, but it did show us the reason for it.

Geburah · 2015-06-13, 22:46

At least they even mentioned that even a fighter of the caliber of Lancer didnt want to enter melee combat against him if possible and considered a much better option to kill him from range instead.

kk2extreme · 2015-06-13, 23:02

If only Shirou can copy Ea...

Rising Dragon · 2015-06-13, 23:15

... even if he could, he'd never use it. That weapon is meant for only one thing: the complete and utter destruction of worlds. Why on Earth would anyone who wants to save people use such a thing?

monster · 2015-06-13, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

... even if he could, he'd never use it. That weapon is meant for only one thing: the complete and utter destruction of worlds. Why on Earth would anyone who wants to save people use such a thing?

It depends on the target he's trying to destroy in order to save people. Ea apparently can be used without destroying the world.

Rising Dragon · 2015-06-14, 00:01

A low-powered Enuma Elish tore up the entire Temple grounds and nearly killed Shirou, and he wasn't even the target. That thing would end up killing anyone he would attempt to save with it.

monster · 2015-06-14, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

A low-powered Enuma Elish tore up the entire Temple grounds and nearly killed Shirou, and he wasn't even the target. That thing would end up killing anyone he would attempt to save with it.

That's assuming the people he were trying to save would be in the area. That would not always be the case.

GreyZone · 2015-06-14, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

A low-powered Enuma Elish tore up the entire Temple grounds and nearly killed Shirou, and he wasn't even the target. That thing would end up killing anyone he would attempt to save with it.

It wasn't even an Enuma Elish at all (he didn't call it's true name "Enuma Elish" but called it "Ea" instead). He only uses Enuma Elish in the Fate route on a level on which it barely beats Excalibur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steam fish

why wouldnt the skills he got from archer stay? its only a limited time thing?

Something about it being a "paradox" to meet your future self, so he forgets things like Archer's face later on, so it's not hard to assume that the skills he gained would get lost too, aside from maybe what "the body remembers", i.e. it would be easier to re-train it again.

Phantom · 2015-06-14, 01:33

Even though Assassin was cut above the rest in terms of pure skill, I guess he could not make the cut in the end.
.....
These bad puns.
I think I'm gonna cut him a break. I'm gonna split.

Salva · 2015-06-14, 01:49

I got goose bumps when Gil summoned Ea. It sounded as if for the first time he was talking of the thing he cares about. Endearing.

Also as much as I hate him as a person I still admire him. The seiyuu did outstanding job of projecting his majesty and overwhelming attitude. I reacted like Rin when he suddenly became much more threatening just with slight change in expression, body and voice. And even though I dislike him I usually am drawn to him. It's like I do treat him as a king he is, it's crazy. Usually I just dismiss and pretend to believe what the authors are telling me, in this case I see it myself. In short, even though I hate him, I still think he's awesome. Can't wait for next episode. I wish they combined it in something longer, the suspense is really killing the tension.

Dengar · 2015-06-14, 02:00

To me, the best part of the episode was the part where Shirou failed to analyze Ea.

I'm a real sucker for "utterly alien" things.

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2015-06-13, 19:45	Link #22
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Pretty much, yeah. What's more is that he's been in Unlimited Blade Works twice now before that, so he's already got a massive armory to pull that trick off with. __________________

2015-06-13, 21:03	Link #25
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Yeah, and Gilgamesh spent 10 years effectively gorging himself on prana from the orphans in the church's basement, so he's not running out any time soon. IIRC in the VN, Shirou's problem is that once he opened up his magic circuit, well, he could only use one magic circuit, hence his need for Rin to supply him with prana. In total, he has 27, so chances are once he's able to utilize them all, he should have the prana necessary to utilize Unlimited Blade Works, given that Archer could, who probably had the same one circuit limitation at first in his Fate-ish route. __________________

2015-06-13, 21:36	Link #27
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	He mentioned previously he'd rule over the survivors, actually. Ea wouldn't just destroy all of humanity, but it'd destroy the planet with it, and even if none of the humans survive, I doubt Gilgamesh has any intention of destroying his property with them. __________________

2015-06-13, 22:34	Link #30
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	It wasn't that Saber was better, it just didn't outright state why he lost, but it did show us the reason for it. __________________

2015-06-13, 19:15	Link #21
steam fish Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014	since shiro can trace gilgameshs noble phantasms now with a little deficiency, can he just use those against other opponents and obliterate them like gilgamesh did to leysrett and sella?

2015-06-13, 21:23	Link #26
Nymbryxion Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2014	I think in VN Gilgamesh was intending to purge all the world with the grail and then rule over those eligible to survive it but in the anime it seems he just wants to kill them all. If this is the case, wouldn't using Ea but a much more simpler method since its a world destroyer?

2015-06-13, 22:28	Link #29
TwilightsCall Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Tokyo, Japan Age: 33	As expected, Assassin gets the shaft I was really hoping for something beautiful after his short but amazing stint in Season 1, but nope, just going to have him lose. They could have at least explained why he lost, rather than just making it seem like Saber was "better." The short story time was nice though, at least they had that. It seems like ufotable is trying to minimize Archer's role in the final confrontation, which is probably for the best. Also, we clearly saw Rin dunk Shinji into the mud earlier, how exactly was he supposed to survive that...? Either way, next week's episode looks to be promising. Hopefully it will make up for Assassin being robbed this week.

2015-06-13, 22:46	Link #31
Geburah Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007	At least they even mentioned that even a fighter of the caliber of Lancer didnt want to enter melee combat against him if possible and considered a much better option to kill him from range instead.

2015-06-13, 23:02	Link #32
kk2extreme Your wife is hot... Join Date: May 2008 Location: At your house fixing A/C	If only Shirou can copy Ea...

2015-06-13, 23:15	Link #33
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	... even if he could, he'd never use it. That weapon is meant for only one thing: the complete and utter destruction of worlds. Why on Earth would anyone who wants to save people use such a thing? __________________

2015-06-14, 00:01	Link #35
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	A low-powered Enuma Elish tore up the entire Temple grounds and nearly killed Shirou, and he wasn't even the target. That thing would end up killing anyone he would attempt to save with it. __________________

2015-06-14, 01:33	Link #38
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012	Even though Assassin was cut above the rest in terms of pure skill, I guess he could not make the cut in the end. ..... These bad puns. I think I'm gonna cut him a break. I'm gonna split.

2015-06-14, 01:49	Link #39
Salva Princess since baptism. Join Date: Dec 2009	I got goose bumps when Gil summoned Ea. It sounded as if for the first time he was talking of the thing he cares about. Endearing. Also as much as I hate him as a person I still admire him. The seiyuu did outstanding job of projecting his majesty and overwhelming attitude. I reacted like Rin when he suddenly became much more threatening just with slight change in expression, body and voice. And even though I dislike him I usually am drawn to him. It's like I do treat him as a king he is, it's crazy. Usually I just dismiss and pretend to believe what the authors are telling me, in this case I see it myself. In short, even though I hate him, I still think he's awesome. Can't wait for next episode. I wish they combined it in something longer, the suspense is really killing the tension. __________________ Don't underestimate the seductive power of decent vocabuly.

2015-06-14, 02:00	Link #40
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	To me, the best part of the episode was the part where Shirou failed to analyze Ea. I'm a real sucker for "utterly alien" things.