F/SN UBW TV - Episode 19 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[Random14]

Too bad the battle didn't start this episode, but having the Emiya theme start playing at the end sure is a nice set-up for next week. And guess all the talking does help Saber deal with her own issues about her past. Archer wants to kill his past self and Saber wants to change her past (officially for the good of her country).

And poor Rin, she knew Kotomine was bad, but not this pure evil, not until this moment. And poor Lancer, well, at least unlike Fate/Zero's Lancer, at least in this route Lancer gets his revenge, almost time for that. Lots of flashbacks, curious how much dialogue will be in the battle, since its Shiro defending not just his ideal, but also Kiritsugu's ideal, while nearby Kiritsugu's rival is gloating, but his comeuppance is soon at least.

[bhl88]

With Rin's dream and the dialogue between Shirou and Archer, it's already obvious.

That EMIYA theme gives me the shivers too. My body is ready to listen to all of it.

[Dengar]

I uhh, got goosebumps when I heard the FIRST TWO notes of that theme.

Am I weird?

Hoping to hear more of it next week.

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[Geburah]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I uhh, got goosebumps when I heard the FIRST TWO notes of that theme.

Am I weird?

Hoping to hear more of it next week.

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Lancer Paaanch!!

Honestly the bitchslap was quite awesome and they managed as well to show off Lancer skill with runes aside the fire one

[Levani]

Emiya gave me shivers as well, it was a powerful scene with a powerful soundtrack, it was to be expected.

[blitz1/2]

EMIYA IS HERE!!! FInally!!!!

[GreyZone]

Well next week is titled "Unlimited Blade Works"... and the preview pics on

http://www.fate-sn.com/story/21.html

actually show the RM as well... I wonder how they will explain that Archer has enough prana to use it again... or better said if they will attempt to explain it in the first place.

[Esclair]

I thought Counter Guardians were supposed to look like a force of nature to normal humans when they're doing their 'cleanup'.

[Rev Okkin]

That was bloody well done.
There's little to say honestly, as tension is well kept between both scenes to the optimum.
And Rin's outburst was welldone, Lancer using runes, the whole deal with Archer was well executed.~
LOVE IT

Originally Posted by Esclair

I thought Counter Guardians were supposed to look like a force of nature to normal humans when they're doing their 'cleanup'.

Well, considering Archer would have been already superhuman plus the backing of Alaya, he would have been described as a "force of nature in a form of a human".

[monster]

Originally Posted by Esclair

I thought Counter Guardians were supposed to look like a force of nature to normal humans when they're doing their 'cleanup'.

So, what, in this universe something like Hurricane Katrina could've been a force sent to clean up some evil people's work? Well, I suppose that fits well with Archer's description of not distinguishing good and evil. But, wow.

Anyway, while I can see how Archer is wrong, Shirou is just too arrogant about it and acts as if everything will happen the way he wants it to happen. It just gets on my nerve.

[Rev Okkin]

He's less arrogant and more determined basically.
I mean when your future self goes through the trouble of breaking in your head and trying to kill you, some form of solidity better come out of you.

Determined: what Shirou said
Arrogant: Ha! Then you are the failure. You have no right to eliminate me because of your existence. I am never wrong and will never admit to it (even when I am indeed wrong). You should be the one killing himself.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

He's less arrogant and more determined basically.
I mean when your future self goes through the trouble of breaking in your head and trying to kill you, some form of solidity better come out of you.

Determined: what Shirou said
Arrogant: Ha! Then you are the failure. You have no right to eliminate me because of your existence. I am never wrong and will never admit to it (even when I am indeed wrong). You should be the one killing himself.

Shirou is saying that he would never regret his ideal like Archer even when he's never actually experienced what Archer went through. That's arrogance as he's basically saying he's better/stronger than Archer.

Actual determination would actually be in accepting Archer's existence as his potential future but having the will to change that future. Instead, Shirou rejected Archer as a different person altogether.

[Rev Okkin]

He never said about being better or stronger than Archer. It was all about regrets. And when you base your life on an ideal, even if it is your future self, if they reject that ideal which stands as basis of what you consider your identity, then they are indeed different people from you.

Though the second bit about having a will to change that particular future is material for next episode. Shirou would be more or less diving into Archer's head so he'll have a bit of experience on what Archer felt.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

He never said about being better or stronger than Archer. It was all about regrets. And when you base your life on an ideal, even if it is your future self, if they reject that ideal which stands as basis of what you consider your identity, then they are indeed different people from you.

He didn't have to say it. It's the implication of what he said. And no one is arguing that Shirou as he is now and Archer as he is now are the same person. The point is that Shirou thinks he would never turn into that same person as Archer has become. That's where the arrogance comes in.

Though the second bit about having a will to change that particular future is material for next episode. Shirou would be more or less diving into Archer's head so he'll have a bit of experience on what Archer felt.

Sure, and I'll look forward to that. But for now, as of this episode, I would still say that Shirou is being too arrogant in this situation.

[Mad Pierrot]

Is Kotomine really bad news? I mean he killed his own servant. Is he the Voldemort of Fate?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Is Kotomine really bad news? I mean he killed his own servant. Is he the Voldemort of Fate?

Pfft. There are way worse people in Type-Moon, in Fate/stay night or otherwise. But yes, Kotomine is particularly bad news. Even before Fate/zero, he was a man who could only find joy in evil acts, but up until meeting Gilgamesh during the Fourth War, refused to let himself do those evil acts because he knew they were evil. Gilgamesh was the one who convinced him to indulge in that what makes him feel happy, and he's been a monster ever since.

He murdered his mentor with the same token of friendship and mastery that he had given him, was possibly/partially responsible for the fire at the end of the Grail War, and sent the Tohsaka family into financial ruin afterwards. He took in orphans from the fire and let Gilgamesh drain them of their prana, keeping them effectively zombified in the catacombs of the church while still alive. He delights in the suffering of others, and his main desire currently is for the one person with the purest wish to win the Holy Grail War, so that he could see how Angra Mainyu corrupts it.

So yeah, Kotomine is a monster through-and-through, but there's arguably much worse out there in this universe.

[Amarantine]

That was pretty good. They jumped around between the two scenarios just a few too many times IMO, and I felt Archer's laugh was a bit more powerful in the VN, but other than that it was a thrilling ride. I was expecting them to get done with the Lancer and Kirei stuff in this episode, but the way they did it also works as a nice cliffhanger for the next episode.

Speaking of which, the title for episode 20 is Unlimited Blade Works, and one of the preview pictures shows Saber in UBW, so it's safe to assume they're going to have Archer summon it again like in the DEEN film. I for one am all for it, even if Archer having the mana to use it again can only be chalked up to rule of cool. UBW is cool enough to warrant it, and it certainly deserves a better showing and more exposure than what it got in episode 18. It'd be nice if Archer said the whole chant too, but I won't be holding my breath for it.

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Is Kotomine really bad news? I mean he killed his own servant. Is he the Voldemort of Fate?

In this route, yes, he's one-dimensionally bad news. In HF he's a lot more than that though.

[Rev Okkin]

Originally Posted by monster

He didn't have to say it. It's the implication of what he said. And no one is arguing that Shirou as he is now and Archer as he is now are the same person. The point is that Shirou thinks he would never turn into that same person as Archer has become. That's where the arrogance comes in. Sure, and I'll look forward to that. But for now, as of this episode, I would still say that Shirou is being too arrogant in this situation.

Yeah, I think how Shirou is subjunctive to viewers; for me he is determined to not become Archer by separating Archer's existence from his as Archer's end is a "bad end" for what Shirou wants (it's a thing with goal making to put negative aspects out of your mind and focus on getting to that goal with a positive mindset) while for you, he is arrogant as he doesn't consider the future of Archer to be possible for him despite Archer claiming to have the same roots as Shirou.

Also, it's not arrogance. Two flowers from the same plant, from the same roots can be different in their colour or phenotype when they are placed in different stimuli. Archer experienced a world that Shirou hasn't; Archer did not have a future version of him pop up to put him down while Shirou has not experienced actively killing people to save others. As such, different experiences make different people. This is also applicable with this series as UBW and HF have their roots in FZ, but due to different experiences, UBW Shirou is different from HF Shirou.

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Is Kotomine really bad news? I mean he killed his own servant. Is he the Voldemort of Fate?

Considering you are in the spoiler area, but hey~
Kotomine is a monster and a badass in a hella lot of ways.



PV shows Archer shooting a sword rain unto Shirou. But when they stop around Shirou, there are REFLECTIONS of them with the ends being BENT...
Shirou is gonna learn how to copy sword rain (which is logical and a good step up from projecting one sword at a time) which would make the lead up to the fight against Gil all the more plausible and less ass pull-ish

[GDB]

Welp, that was amazing. A lot of people theorized that EMIYA was born from stopping a nuclear meltdown (since he mentions something about stopping one in Fate/Extra), but this seems to confirm that was the event in question that he made a contract for.

Which is kind of odd when you think about it, since it was said he saved less than 200 people through his wish. But I guess if it would have been otherwise contained and he was saving the workers and nearby areas only, it's not a big stretch.

Lancer once again proved himself to be awesome. Rin's outburst against Kirei was top notch. Even Shinji seemed impressed by it.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

Yeah, I think how Shirou is subjunctive to viewers; for me he is determined to not become Archer by separating Archer's existence from his as Archer's end is a "bad end" for what Shirou wants (it's a thing with goal making to put negative aspects out of your mind and focus on getting to that goal with a positive mindset) while for you, he is arrogant as he doesn't consider the future of Archer to be possible for him despite Archer claiming to have the same roots as Shirou.

Also, it's not arrogance. Two flowers from the same plant, from the same roots can be different in their colour or phenotype when they are placed in different stimuli. Archer experienced a world that Shirou hasn't; Archer did not have a future version of him pop up to put him down while Shirou has not experienced actively killing people to save others. As such, different experiences make different people. This is also applicable with this series as UBW and HF have their roots in FZ, but due to different experiences, UBW Shirou is different from HF Shirou.



Considering you are in the spoiler area, but hey~
Kotomine is a monster and a badass in a hella lot of ways.



PV shows Archer shooting a sword rain unto Shirou. But when they stop around Shirou, there are REFLECTIONS of them with the ends being BENT...
Shirou is gonna learn how to copy sword rain (which is logical and a good step up from projecting one sword at a time) which would make the lead up to the fight against Gil all the more plausible and less ass pull-ish

If what you said about "sword rain" thing actually happens, then I'll be happy; since it's more evidence of Shirou still learning/practicing until the fight with Gil (Ufotable really is going the slow, yet steading process of developing Shirou's fighting/magical prowess).

Reading the comments of this episode is making me start asking a bunch of questions regarding ArcherShirou's magical prowess. Based on what I've heard from different people, ArcherShirou took 20 years to develop UBW (10 years to learn the basics, and another 10 to master it). Based on what I've heard, Shirou did the roaming/traveling gig, doing various things. I'm wondering how developed his physical/magical abilities was at the time before making his contract with Alaya (since there was no teacher named of teaching him about certain things, meaning that he has to go through a heck of a lot of trails and errors. Then having to consider Kiritsugu not being serious of teaching Shirou most of the basic things, along with Kiritsugu himself only knowing enough where he can do his job correctly).