F/SN UBW TV - Episode 14 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[Allium]

Originally Posted by Levani

UBW anime actually needs more anime original content. This isn't a route where you just simply focus on 3 characters and screw over everyone else. Every character needs a substance.

I wrote this at my blog.

--snip--

Totally agreed with this. It's mind-numbing how the VN devotees swoop down on the minor changes and keep picking them apart. And a couple of them seriously wanted the anime to stick to the VN's story, word-for-word. Oh goodness, then what's the point of an anime adaptation then?

Anyway, for a filler episode, this was really good. Shinji's fabulous entrance gave me a good laugh, and the maids' deaths were depressing, even though I knew it was coming. I was only a bit let down that they had to cut out the Caster and Kuzuki part, since their relationship has only been slightly touched upon so far. Also, nice throwbacks/references to the Mages' Association, Lancer's original Master and Enkidu.

[Mr. Wang]

If I could be so bold, I think I'm one of the weird people who seems to straddle the line between being a "VN devotee" and a supporter of original content in the anime.

With the exception of my minor gripe that I mentioned on the previous page, I never saw any of the original content presented in UBW thus far as being "changes." In fact, the UBW anime provides us with a lot of new scenes that don't change, but add to the already existing events of the VN plotlines. Because when it comes down to it, if we do follow the VN, of course they aren't being followed to the exact letter (as expected of any animated adaptation, really), the key events stay their course without deviating too much if at all. I do note that an actual change is that Kuzuki and Caster are presented more sympathetically than their VN-counterparts, which I think is actually a plus. For example, Kuzuki in the VN was more malevolent and encouraged Caster to kill people, whereas here he's presented as being more apathetic than active malevolent, which is a better presentation in my opinion. And yet, even with changes like this, the plot of the VN doesn't change.

What I find delightful in the UBW anime is that we not only are looking through Shirou's perspective, which we're always looking through in the VN (with the exception of an occasional interlude), we get to see a lot more perspectives in the animation. This doesn't break the VN's canon. Rather, we're seeing other things going on that aren't in Shirou's head. For example, most of the scenes that happen at the Church. We only get to see what happens there maybe once or twice in the actual UBW VN, whereas here we're seeing more going on with Kotomine, and how he interacts with the occasional visitor such as Gilgamesh, Shinji, or Caster's old Master.

Overall, I a do consider myself a die-hard Fate/Stay Night fan who does want to see it being faithful VN as much as possible since I've devoted myself to it quite a bit (even if I make the treasonous admission UBW is my least favorite route). And so far, I'd say it's doing that while adding more, not changing.

[Rev Okkin]

I will come back for this episode and the next when the BDs come out due to the 7 minutes cut content. I will follow through with Ep 16 till the end tho.
Why the BD? Because (see my signature below) and that I would like my suffering FRESH and have it in its maximum punch in my first go.

From what I hear from the people I find reasonable, this ep has done really well. I find that pleasing and to the guy who bitches on all things ufotable, did you read the interviews? All the answers lie there to be honest.

Originally Posted by Levani

UBW anime actually needs more anime original content. This isn't a route where you just simply focus on 3 characters and screw over everyone else. Every character needs a substance.

I wrote this at my blog...

I agree with absolutely everything on what you wrote on your blog. Though it would be nice to have a link to it if you were to reference it. And btw, I found it and started following you~ ufoTM are doing are really good job adapting it (also, did you guys know that they record the voices, then do animation, then do the music?) and by god, this is really standing to be my favorite series ever since I came back into anime~

[Jaden]

I thought Gil's UFO was destroyed...how'd they come from the sky?

Such expansion on the source material though, I'm super hyped after this episode. Now I'm hoping for all the side characters to get this kind of screen time, even though that's probably impossible. Some backstory for Kuzuki would be cool though. Also some exploration of how the grail is corrupting Gil.

Caster's original master I'm in two minds about. He was a bit of a nonsensical character, and I didn't need to see that to sympathize with Caster....we already had a good idea about what morally bankrupt jerks come out of the mage's association, and if he summoned Medea he probably deserved to die.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I thought Gil's UFO was destroyed...how'd they come from the sky?

Don't all destroyed NP's just return to the source, which is what he has access to? Otherwise he'd run out of NPs considering how much he spams them.

[Ernietheracefan]

Ten years ago, Gil, Saber, and Rider have a royal banquet, now that park is about to become a killing zone.

[Kanon]

This episode was mostly anime original, and yet it was one of the most interesting episode in the series. Especially for us novel readers, since it revealed a side of the story we didn't know about.

Caster's master was absolutely not how I pictured him. I don't know why, but I always imagined him as an incompetent jerk who abused Caster (kinda of like a Shinji clone). In truth, he was a pretty average mage, both in skills and morals. If he hadn't been so distrustful and prideful, he might have performed well in this war.

Gil killing Seylla and Liz was a nice addition. I liked Gil's comment about homunculi and how they're much more pure than humans. He even showed them mercy. Well, as much mercy as someone like him is capable of.

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by Allium

Totally agreed with this. It's mind-numbing how the VN devotees swoop down on the minor changes and keep picking them apart. And a couple of them seriously wanted the anime to stick to the VN's story, word-for-word. Oh goodness, then what's the point of an anime adaptation then?

Even Nasu doesn't want the Anime to follow th VN kanji by kanji -_- Which makes sense as Nasu has written stories for multiple mediums so he knows better than any of these fanboys that proper storytelling differs from medium to medium.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Levani

Oh, that's hilarious, that guy sure is one piece of work, isn't he?

UBW anime actually needs more anime original content. This isn't a route where you just simply focus on 3 characters and screw over everyone else. Every character needs a substance.

I wrote this at my blog.

First, I’d like to say that Visual Novels and Anime are a completely different medium. In the VN, Unlimited Blade Works is simply a route that has a focus on certain characters, that characters would be Shirou, Archer and Rin to a certain extent.

When we’re dealing with Anime, we can’t simply screw over other characters and yell ‘we’ll get that in the next route!’. No, there are no routes this time. Therefore, if Studio Ufotable were to be 100% accurate with the source material, we would have static, card-board cut-outs of a characters, with no substance in them.

Studio Ufotable has brought life not only to Ilya, who doesn’t play a large role in UBW, but to her maids as well. That little scene she had, revealing the quirks and substances of these characters is what makes this adaptation so damn good. It is also what makes us feel despair over their deaths, the visual story-telling in the recent episode was spot-on. The expressions Ufotable draws tell so much story and are so crucial to bringing fictional characters to life.

As for Ilya, you won’t get your audience to sympathize with her demise unless you tell us about who she is and what happened to her. You might be a Zero watcher and you already know, you might be a VN reader and also know, but what if I’m an anime only watcher? I wouldn’t get why the anime would be making a big deal out of a minor character’s death.

Now for Caster. This is a servant, along with her Master Kuzuki, who had zero substance in the VN. Oh yeah, a witch, evil, we must defeat her! Ufotable clearly saw a problem in that and expanded her backstory to once again, give us a substance and more detail to her character, so that when her eventual fall comes, we will feel regret and sorrow.

If it cannot reach you emotionally, it is a failed anime. You can have your “exact-same-no-alterations-adaptation”, but what would come from it is as I said, boring, static characters that are just mere obstacles to the main characters of the route.

I'd completely disagree how Caster has zero substance in the VN. They expanded her backstory after she was summoned, but also almost completely left out her historical background with Jason. That scene after all was also partially present in the VN and had Nasu's own twist on her past. I was a bit sad, when she met her demise a few days later. There are pros and cons, so while I agree that this adaptation is great, it doesn't completely trump over the source material.

Of course as a VN reader, I already know which scenes are missing, so I personally don't really care as I have already experienced them, and the additional scenes are also more than welcome, but I understand if some VN readers are upset if something they deem important is left out.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by Esclair

Don't all destroyed NP's just return to the source, which is what he has access to? Otherwise he'd run out of NPs considering how much he spams them.

Seeing as he own almost if not all NPs known in existence then I don't think Gil is worried if he breaks some of them. His gate of Babylon is not like Archer's UBW where swords are permanent residents. Destroying one copy won't affect them as Archer can just trace them back.

[Wandering Soul]

Now I ended feeling bad for Caster being stuck with a master like that. It was actually pretty nice that she met Kuzuki.

I like how they managed to give some more time and development to Ilya and her maids despite her small role in this route. Gil's comment about them being more pure than humans was also interesting

[iBeast]

"He's incredibly..."

Incredibly what? Hot? Powerful?

Looked like they wanted to join him if anything...

[Rev Okkin]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

I'd completely disagree how Caster has zero substance in the VN. They expanded her backstory after she was summoned, but also almost completely left out her historical background with Jason. That scene after all was also partially present in the VN and had Nasu's own twist on her past. I was a bit sad, when she met her demise a few days later. There are pros and cons, so while I agree that this adaptation is great, it doesn't completely trump over the source material.

As far as ufoTM are doing things, any backstory or historical backgrounds of Servants are left out of the anime other than a few references to it so the production can focus more on the events instory. So stuff like the ever complained FZ Berserker's backstory and this time, Medea's are resolved by ufoTM pointing to their original stories and saying, "Read them." It's a good meta tactic to the viewer to have them read the original stories and make them make connections of the actions of the Servants in ufoFate and their lives depicted in their story.
Also, Nasu said that ufoTM is different from TM so while they are very similar, there would be differences in the lore and whatnot.

Question, what is Nasu's twist on Medea's story?

[bahamut zero]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Maybe it's because of the 7 cut minutes.

What's your source on this? I noticed a few awkward cuts and transitions myself, I take it there will be an extended version of this episode on the BDs?

[Rising Dragon]

Apparently there was some twitter post confirming the cut 7 minutes. I haven't seen it myself, though.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

As far as ufoTM are doing things, any backstory or historical backgrounds of Servants are left out of the anime other than a few references to it so the production can focus more on the events instory. So stuff like the ever complained FZ Berserker's backstory and this time, Medea's are resolved by ufoTM pointing to their original stories and saying, "Read them." It's a good meta tactic to the viewer to have them read the original stories and make them make connections of the actions of the Servants in ufoFate and their lives depicted in their story.
Also, Nasu said that ufoTM is different from TM so while they are very similar, there would be differences in the lore and whatnot.

Question, what is Nasu's twist on Medea's story?

Nasu makes her a victim for almost everything she has done. Aphrodite controlled her, blablabla, brainwash brainwash brainwash, witch hatred, you can't blame her, etc. It's a really short section in the novel itself, and can be summed up in a few sentences to be honest.

As for FZ-Berserker's backstory, making him explain why everything went wrong in the Einzbern Consultation Room special wasn't really a good idea, in my opinion. Since Saber is female, it takes a good amount of imagination, why on Earth Berserker seems to be so pissed at Arthur. It would have been a bit problematic because of the pacing and the airing time they had left, but Saber just killing him off like that and ending it with a sentence or two from Berserker could have been done far better.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Apparently there was some twitter post confirming the cut 7 minutes. I haven't seen it myself, though.

https://twitter.com/hikaruufo/status/586913523554353152

[HandofFate]

Liked the extra scenes this episode.
Its the extra I'm looking for since I already read the VN.
This bumps it up a few pts for me over "yea it was nice things in motion"

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

Question, what is Nasu's twist on Medea's story?

Nasu's take on it is that Aphrodite brainwashed Medea into falling for Jason, and painted Jason as a bad guy for abandoning Medea.

The first isn't such a strange interpretation of the actual myth, but as for the second, Jason didn't simply just up and abandon Medea for no reason in the myth, he did so after she tricked his cousins into killing his uncle and got them banished.

I think Nasu was working off the play, mostly.

[Twi]

Caster's former Master was just mad because he got upstaged when she pointed out that his new age system was inefficient compared to what she knew. What did he think was going to happen when he summoned someone from the Caster class? They're supposed to be better than you at magecraft.

Granted, she could be less smug about it.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by Twi

Caster's former Master was just mad because he got upstaged when she pointed out that his new age system was inefficient compared to what she knew. What did he think was going to happen when he summoned someone from the Caster class? They're supposed to be better than you at magecraft.

Granted, she could be less smug about it.

She probably wouldn't have been so smug if he didn't think he was hot shit. Not to mention he was sacrificing kids to do it, and Caster wanted to put him in his place.