Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Raziel1991]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Umm, I think Inaho would care if he ever finally got to see the whole picture. Right now, his view is narrow and he can only see from his POV. He needs to see what's going on with Vers and how that will affect the earth.
And how was the scene creepy? He was teaching Eddelrittuo about Earth in the only place that he can be himself, which is in Asseylum's chamber.

Ummm, because he is a UFE soldier? Why should he care about equality in a foreign country that is trying to invade and pillage his homeplanet? Just like Inaho said, if they want to change their society they should do it themselves without involving the UE. "Birds are thrown into a cage because they are beautiful" I think it was very obvious he was making a reference to Asseylum here.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Umm, I think Inaho would care if he ever finally got to see the whole picture. Right now, his view is narrow and he can only see from his POV. He needs to see what's going on with Vers and how that will affect the earth.

Got to disagree with you here. He does not have a narrow point of view, but rather a Terran point of view. Like others said already, the state of affairs in Vers is not his problem. He is going after the princess because that is his long term strategy, because his goal is peace, not the destruction of Vers. He has no idea what Slaine is planning (neither do we) and has absolutely no reason to trust him, so he has no choice but to act for the Terrans to survive.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by bakato

Led around? Inaho busted his ass out and let him go with no guarantees as to whether the count would keep his word. He's definitely earned his trust.

I think this duel will show us whether Slaine's still a good guy or not.

Um, that really wasn't that hard. Inaho just told him facts and he believe them. However, I will give it to him that he stood his ground and is loyal to Vers, he's not wishy-washy in that regard. However, what I was mostly referring to was how easily he folded to Marylcian and Barohcruz's peer pressure and that he felt that he somehow had to prove himself. While he stays on the defenseive with the Terrans, he seems to be easily led by his own people.

And how will the duel show us if Slaine is good or not? Marylcian is a peice of crap and he's going to keep coming after him time and again because he's a racist and can't stand that a Terran is in a position of power. Marylcian just signed his own death warrant.

That's ridiculous. It's clear that Slaine's inching towards the dark side and growing ever more arrogant. Not to mention just plain creepy. I have no doubt that his plans will benefit Vers as a whole, but it will also result in the near extinction of the Terrans. While justice may also be on his side, this is by no means a conquest because justice is also with the Terrans for defending themselves. That is why this is war.

I believe Inaho also cares about Vers. Not because he actually understands their problems, but because he cares about Asseylum and therefore her world by extension.

As for the odds of victory, all is not lost. Don't forget that Earth is now in possession of Mazaruuk kataphrakt. Damaged but with an Aldnoah in one piece. It would be simple for Inaho to activate it.

I'd have to disagree about Slaine, I've seen nothing that says that he wants the extinction of Terrans. There's a difference in what he says on TV and what he's actually aiming for. He has to carry himself as a leader, but he's not actually arrogant as you can see when he's alone with those he trusts like Eddelritto. And I never understood why people keep calling his "creepy". He talks to Asseylum? Most people do that when their friend is comatose. He talks himself through things? Again, something most people do. Not getting the "creepy" factor.

Um, just cause the kataphrackt is shut off, sure Inaho can turn it on, but then he'd have to find someone to pilot it, and no one know how. Also, you forget that he completely crippled it as well during the battle last episode. The Terrans don't know how to repair it. They can get info from it, but have never been able to repair it. If that was true, they could have repaired Dioscuria I or any of the other broken kats from the Martians in the last year and a half, but they never have.

[Narumi]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Umm, did anyone just forget that the girl is basically in a level 1 coma? What exactlly is he supposed to do? Turn the life support of and let her die on a table? Yeah, she'll be free then alright, free from living that is...come one guys.

And who's to say Slaine wouldn't mind her staying that way, forever? Eternally peaceful in her cage... taken care of by him.

This episode is starting to confirm that Slaine is going off the deep end. The question is can he hold it together long enough to ensure victory.

[konart]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

LOL Slaine can care less. Slaine's long term objective is to cage Asseylum for himself.

Peace? He has abandoned Asseylum's principles.

While Inaho's objective is to free Asseylum.

You realize you two are talking about different things, right?

Also,

Slaine's long term objective is to cage Asseylum for himself.

This is strange thing to say. He already has her caged. Literally.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Raziel1991

Ummm, because he is a UFE soldier? Why should he care about equality in a foreign country that is trying to invade and pillage his homeplanet? Just like Inaho said, if they want to change their society they should do it themselves without involving the UE. "Birds are thrown into a cage because they are beautiful" I thnk it was very obvious he was making a reference to Asseylum here.

Originally Posted by Zoks

Got to disagree with you here. He does not have a narrow point of view, but rather a Terran point of view. Like others said already, the state of affairs in Vers is not his problem. He is going after the princess because that is his long term strategy, because his goal is peace, not the destruction of Vers. He has no idea what Slaine is planning (neither do we) and has absolutely no reason to trust him, so he has no choice but to act for the Terrans to survive.

Again, just because that is the point of view he has, doesn't make it not narrow. A single POV IS narrow, but I'm not faulting him for that. Inaho is trying to find out more information, and therefore expand his knowledge and then be able to see the situation from several points of view rather than just one.

And I'm sorry, but simply finding the princess is not the key to peace by any stretch. Let's say he found her, let's say that somehow he miraculously woke her from her coma and somehow her body was miraculously fine after being nonresponsive for almost two years. Let's even say that somehow the princess was able to tell her men to stand down and let's say they do it for some odd reason.
Well, what's to stop the ones that hate her, the ones that want more power, the ones that want to take over Earth from doing another assassination attempt and taking over? The problem has it's root in the form of the society of Vers. Even Mazaruuk calls back to that this episode. If you don't solve the problem at the root, all the pretty speeches in pretty dresses won't do a thing in the long run. The war will start up again, whether it's 20, 30, or 40 years later, and this time there might be someone in power that's not as nice as Asseylum.
Asseylum was only beginning to see the corruption and problems with her people at the very end of the last season. I highly doubt that she's even fully comprehended how far this trouble really goes. I don't think she can handle this, not the way she is. It's not in her nature.

As for Inaho, I think that since the show and its characters seem to think that Inaho is the key to winning this war, I think that he should have in interest in what the real issues are in the war and how to fix them, since that's the only real way of having peace. And it seems that he's trying to do that by not only finding out where Asseylum is, but also finding out what Slaine is up to.

[Zoks]

Creepy as that scene was, we cannot make conclusions that Slaine wants to keep Asseylum in an ivory tower, though her certainly acted in that manner throughout the show. I mean, he isn't raving like a madman just yet, so it can still be him being a little overzealous.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Narumi

And who's to say Slaine wouldn't mind her staying that way, forever? Eternally peaceful in her cage... taken care of by him.

This episode is starting to confirm that Slaine is going off the deep end. The question is can he hold it together long enough to ensure victory.

You're welcome to believe that if you want. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I mean, remember that scene but a few episodes ago where he was looking longingly at the princess and comforting Eddelrittuo saying that one day she was going to awaken. That did not seem like something a crazy person who wanted to keep her that way would say. It wasn't like he said it in passing either, he said with promise and hope like he actually wants to make himself believe it.

[Top Sergeant]

"Mizusaki, do you know why men who are the silent type are so attractive?"

"Is it because they always seem calm and collected?"

"Its because they sit quietly and listen to what you have to say."

That exchange was freakin' awesome! Captain Magbaredge is one of my top 3 favs on this show!


Also, Inaho is going to owe Inko big time for covering for him.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

"Mizusaki, do you know why men who are the silent type are so attractive?"

"Is it because they always seem calm and collected?"

"Its because they sit quietly and listen to what you have to say."

That exchange was freakin' awesome! Captain Magbaredge is one of my top 3 favs on this show!


Also, Inaho is going to owe Inko big time for covering for him.

At least it was different from her usual, "do you know why you can't get a date" line that got old really, really fast. And it actually looks like the girl actually does have some low self esteem since she wants to find out how Rayet keeps her weight down while not dieting.

News flash girls, not all women are built the same and neither do they have the same metabolisms. I myself can eat whatever I want and my waistline will never change, but that's not the same with my own mother. We're all built differently. And perhaps you should think of having more esteem for yourselves the way you are, then you wouldn't be worried about even little pound you gain or lose, especially for girls who look completely healthy like you three do.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Again, just because that is the point of view he has, doesn't make it not narrow. A single POV IS narrow, but I'm not faulting him for that. Inaho is trying to find out more information, and therefore expand his knowledge and then be able to see the situation from several points of view rather than just one.

And I'm sorry, but simply finding the princess is not the key to peace by any stretch. Let's say he found her, let's say that somehow he miraculously woke her from her coma and somehow her body was miraculously fine after being nonresponsive for almost two years. Let's even say that somehow the princess was able to tell her men to stand down and let's say they do it for some odd reason.
Well, what's to stop the ones that hate her, the ones that want more power, the ones that want to take over Earth from doing another assassination attempt and taking over? The problem has it's root in the form of the society of Vers. Even Mazaruuk calls back to that this episode. If you don't solve the problem at the root, all the pretty speeches in pretty dresses won't do a thing in the long run. The war will start up again, whether it's 20, 30, or 40 years later, and this time there might be someone in power that's not as nice as Asseylum.
Asseylum was only beginning to see the corruption and problems with her people at the very end of the last season. I highly doubt that she's even fully comprehended how far this trouble really goes. I don't think she can handle this, not the way she is. It's not in her nature.

As for Inaho, I think that since the show and its characters seem to think that Inaho is the key to winning this war, I think that he should have in interest in what the real issues are in the war and how to fix them, since that's the only real way of having peace. And it seems that he's trying to do that by not only finding out where Asseylum is, but also finding out what Slaine is up to.

You are confusing point of view with plans for the future. Inaho knows the Vers point of view, he simply does not care. Rayet is right there next to him, and she went on quite a tirade back in season 1 about Versian society. He also heard directly from Count Cruhteo about why they hate the Royalty. He simply thinks that rather than trying to fight an overwhelming force, it is better for them to use the sympathetic leader of Vers to stop the war, and let the Versians work it out themselves, rather than try to act from the militarily disenfranchised Terran side. You point out that Asseylum's heirs may not be as sympathetic, but you forget that Asseylum herself wants a peace treaty, and not the return to the previous ceasefire. Peace means the two sides can finally work together to better both sides, with the Terrans providing resources and the Versians providing technology. Will it ultimately end up with the Versians holding an advantage? Possibly, but Inaho cannot sit there and worry about that when people are dying.

Meanwhile, based on your definition, how exactly does Slaine not have a narrow point of view? All of his actions have been in favor of Vers, which suggests he absconded all responsibility towards the Terrans.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

And it actually looks like the girl actually does have some low self esteem since she wants to find out how Rayet keeps her weight down while not dieting.

Well, when you've been repeatedly told that you can't get a date, you'll probably have some low self esteem too.

On that note, I was thinking the scene with Rayet in the restaurant seemed off when they used her figure so casually because I thought they were going to realize that she might have been skinny because she never had that much food in Mars. But then again, I don't know how long she had been in living on Earth, so I don't know if that would apply to her.

[Anh_Minh]

So... Did Inaho predict that Inko would cover for him even if he neglected to bring her into his confidence (bit of a dick move), or did he just fail to predict he'd be seen?

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Zoks

You are confusing point of view with plans for the future. Inaho knows the Vers point of view, he simply does not care. Rayet is right there next to him, and she went on quite a tirade back in season 1 about Versian society. He also heard directly from Count Cruhteo about why they hate the Royalty. He simply thinks that rather than trying to fight an overwhelming force, it is better for them to use the sympathetic leader of Vers to stop the war, and let the Versians work it out themselves, rather than try to act from the militarily disenfranchised Terran side. You point out that Asseylum's heirs may not be as sympathetic, but you forget that Asseylum herself wants a peace treaty, and not the return to the previous ceasefire. Peace means the two sides can finally work together to better both sides, with the Terrans providing resources and the Versians providing technology. Will it ultimately end up with the Versians holding an advantage? Possibly, but Inaho cannot sit there and worry about that when people are dying.

Meanwhile, based on your definition, how exactly does Slaine not have a narrow point of view? All of his actions have been in favor of Vers, which suggests he absconded all responsibility towards the Terrans.

Slaine, unlike Inaho, has lived on both Earth and Mars and he knows what it is like to be both. That allows he to be able to see from both points of view. Just because he's fighting for Mars right now, doesn't mean he doesn't care for humans to an extent. Do note that he didn't want to attack Terrans in the first place, and later, when he found that he had to, he's only attacked military targets thus far. He originally wanted peace and had the same naive views as Asseylum. However, he completely lost that naivety, and learned what really needed to be done. And sure what he's doing is benefiting Vers, it's Vers' social ladder he's trying to climb, not Earth's. It's called strategy during war. I mean, what's he supposed to do, not fight? I'm sure that will get his far...

I don't think Inaho doesn't care, I just don't think that there's anything that he can do about it right now. However, I think that eventually he and and Slaine will somehow work together with Slaine working on the Vers side and Inaho on the Earth side, they can work together to end this. Asseylum wanted to have peace treaty with earth, but that was incredibly naive thing to do considered she doesn't even know that the reason for the war is not with Earth, but her own people. She knows nothing of the suffering of her own people and didn't learn anything until after the war had started. She would have been a horrible leader at that point and her peace treaty would have never worked even if there was no assassination attempt. Asseylum didn't even know the true point of the war until Inaho told her at the end of season 1, she's been too sheltered to make an effective leader of her people, at least not without help. In the end she would be just a figurehead puppet with the counts having all the power.

That's why I don't think the end of the war lies with Asseylum, it's going to lie with these two boys. They are doing all the hard and dirty work that she couldn't do, but is necessary, so that when the princess finally awaken she can have a world that she can handle and that's closer to the one she dreams of.

[MartianMage]

It's interesting to see how things will go from here. Mazuurek will probably try to do as he's asked I just wonder how successful he will be. Hope it won't be another Cruhteo lol

[Irenesharda]

Also, did anyone note what the doctor said to Inaho about his eye and warning him about the fact that if he keeps messing with it will be trouble and affect his brain. Does anyone else see any trouble coming from that?

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Slaine, unlike Inaho, has lived on both Earth and Mars and he knows what it is like to be both. That allows he to be able to see from both points of view. Just because he's fighting for Mars right now, doesn't mean he doesn't care for humans to an extent. Do note that he didn't want to attack Terrans in the first place, and later, when he found that he had to, he's only attacked military targets thus far. He originally wanted peace and had the same naive views as Asseylum. However, he completely lost that naivety, and learned what really needed to be done. And sure what he's doing is benefiting Vers, it's Vers' social ladder he's trying to climb, not Earth's. It's called strategy during war. I mean, what's he supposed to do, not fight? I'm sure that will get his far...

I don't think Inaho doesn't care, I just don't think that there's anything that he can do about it right now. However, I think that eventually he and and Slaine will somehow work together with Slaine working on the Vers side and Inaho on the Earth side, they can work together to end this. Asseylum wanted to have peace treaty with earth, but that was incredibly naive thing to do considered she doesn't even know that the reason for the war is not with Earth, but her own people. She knows nothing of the suffering of her own people and didn't learn anything until after the war had started. She would have been a horrible leader at that point and her peace treaty would have never worked even if there was no assassination attempt. Asseylum didn't even know the true point of the war until Inaho told her at the end of season 1, she's been too sheltered to make an effective leader of her people, at least not without help. In the end she would be just a figurehead puppet with the counts having all the power.

That's why I don't think the end of the war lies with Asseylum, it's going to lie with these two boys. They are doing all the hard and dirty work that she couldn't do, but is necessary, so that when the princess finally awaken she can have a world that she can handle and that's closer to the one she dreams of.

Does Slaine actually have the ability to see things from both perspectives? All we know about Slaine is that he knows a lot about birds. That is pretty much all he has over the other Versians, as everything else he demonstrated suggested he only has the pseudo-knowledge a child would have, which makes sense, considering he was still a child when he left Earth. So he's supposed to be some sort of expert on the politics, culture, and military affairs of Earth as a kid and somehow be able to incorporate that knowledge for a grand scheme? All we have seen so far in his discussions with Cruhteo and Harklight suggests his interests lie in reforming Versian society, without any consideration for the Terrans. Meanwhile he neutralized the Terrans' ability to fight in space, taking away any capacity they had to launch offensive operations. That alone shows he is not really interested in the Terrans as they are now. Whatever reformations he has would be in a world after the Versians fully conquer Earth, but we have not seen any of that yet.

[ChampDream]

It look like Count Mazuurek is best count so far.
Slaine is having trouble with princess Lemrina and the duo count, I want to see that duel.
Also for each episode that pass I beginning to think that something bad will happen to Inko, as long as she is protecting Inaho.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Zoks

Does Slaine actually have the ability to see things from both perspectives? All we know about Slaine is that he knows a lot about birds. That is pretty much all he has over the other Versians, as everything else he demonstrated suggested he only has the pseudo-knowledge a child would have, which makes sense, considering he was still a child when he left Earth. So he's supposed to be some sort of expert on the politics, culture, and military affairs of Earth as a kid and somehow be able to incorporate that knowledge for a grand scheme? All we have seen so far in his discussions with Cruhteo and Harklight suggests his interests lie in reforming Versian society, without any consideration for the Terrans. Meanwhile he neutralized the Terrans' ability to fight in space, taking away any capacity they had to launch offensive operations. That alone shows he is not really interested in the Terrans as they are now. Whatever reformations he has would be in a world after the Versians fully conquer Earth, but we have not seen any of that yet.

Read more background and pay attention to timeline, Slaine has lived on Earth longer than he has lived on Vers, and he grew in different places all over Earth, so he's experienced a lot of cultures of much of humanity. He came to Vers when he was 11, I think that's long enough for a person to know what it means to be a Terran. He only lived on Vers itself for 3 years before his father died and was shipped off with Cruhteo, who he lived with for 2 years, and then Saazbaum, who he was with for a year and a half. I think a person who's live on Earth for more than decade can have a Terran POV. He's lived 7 and 1/2 years with Vers and so he has their POV too.He only talks about birds because that's the thing the girls seem to find interesting, but he's talked about other stuff with Asseylum.

Also, even if you don't necessarily want something to be eradicated, doesn't mean he's not going to fight against it for his own goals. Slaine has an endgame here. That included having to destroy the base, it was a military and heavily defended target, he's completely within his rights of taking it out. Just because he isn't giving Earth and easy time, doesn't mean he wants them utterly destroyed. His mind right now is trying to solidify his position with Vers in order to do what he has to do. His battles are just a means to an end.

Oh, and I think you're confusing Cruhteo and Saazbaum, you did it before in the last comment too, but they are two different people.

[AverageFan]

So Inaho’s conversation with Mazaruk was like, Inaho: What if I told you, Suuzbean shot hime. Its good that the two have at least some understanding. Hopefully this will work out.

So Inaho motivation is to get Assylum back.

Slaine showing a sleeping Assylum the birds, which is kind of creep. Do Ed seems to be amazed by the birds.

Rayet is an pretty good this episode. It shows how she is alienated from everyone else

Marylcian and Barouhcruz are granted an audience with the current princess. By the suprised look on Brao’s face it looks like he did expect the Mary to requested to be Royal Guard and then challenge Slaine to a dual. Regardless Slaine will defeat him.