2013-12-30, 06:44 | Link #21 | ||
whatever
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: wherever
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my opinion assuming they've developed super advanced technology in secret there is elder tale big machine main server, inside are the world of elder tale, high intelligence AI, and monster. and then the developer extracted the player character and mind with only god knows how to do it. supernatural tech? possible. Quote:
who knows how to do it? it just my wild theory, maybe supernatural technology flying the soul of players into elder tale server? maybe like //HACK? no matter how i think about it, the closest guess is that this setting is similar to project alicization with some supernatural
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2013-12-30, 06:47 | Link #22 | |
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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Not a single one of these players are using anything to connect their minds to the computer you know. "Super advanced technology" doesn't hack your brains through your mouse & keyboard and download data. That's not some word you can just throw around. "Magic" is.
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2013-12-30, 06:52 | Link #23 | |
whatever
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: wherever
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2013-12-30, 07:01 | Link #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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To put it simply Elder Tales weren't virtual reality and simply giga or two of update can't turn PC game into it.
If you say it's virtual reality you can say same thing about Never ending story, considering how complex Log horison world is, gap between media like book and MMORPG is close to noneexistent. |
2013-12-30, 07:54 | Link #25 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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I really have to agree with aohige on this one. I suppose some people like the virtual reality explanation because it feels more "reasonable", but when you actually examine the mechanics of it, it's entirely unreasonable. This isn't like Sword Art Online where VR was an existing technology that everyone was familiar with. The mere existence of THAT kind of technology would be fantastical in our world.
You then get into the issue of how hundreds of thousands of people were transported from their homes and into a location where they could be hooked up into VR sims. This either involves Star Trek teleportation, or an army of ninja's with knock out drugs simultaneously kidnapping hundreds of thousands of people world wide and moving them undetected to hidden VR sim stations. At a certain point you realize this is all just as absurd as getting transported to an alternate reality. Perhaps the most *mundane* explanation is that this IS a sophisticated virtual reality simulation prison inside a hyper sophisticated computer...but due to the logistical problems of kidnapping hundreds of thousands of people, it's most likely that only a tiny handful of Adventurers were actually kidnapped, and that the hyper majority of Adventurers were AI simulations like the People of the Land. Quote:
Alternate world theory -Pro: Our senses tell us we're in an alternate world -Con: No idea how we got here Virtual reality theory -Pro: Nothing -Con: No idea how we got there All the VR theory does is nitpick the alternate world theory by postulating that "maybe" our sensory input isn't reliable. It's a big old "proving a negative" conundrum. It's a fascinating *theory*, but with no active proof, why should anyone take it seriously? edit: There's also the fact that the Virtual reality thing isn't a particularly useful explanation for the Elder Scrolls in particular. Once you start taking the Snow Globe theory to it's natural conclusion, there's no particular reason to assume that the world the Adventurers previously lived in was real either. Ethereal alien space bats could just as easily fake the modern day world as they could the World of Elder Tales. Quote:
A fantasy world based on an MMORPG (complete with Adventurers who use user interfaces) is fantastical, but not THAT outrageous once you've factored and accepted the hypothetical potential for infinite numbers of different alternate realities. At least the world is internally consistent.
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2013-12-30, 09:24 | Link #26 | |
Dimension Exploiter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Arcane Sanctuary
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Was about to throw in some spoiler before I read that big-ass NO SPOILER note up there.
Still, the update name is Homesteading the Noosphere, or Novasphere Pioneers. As its name suggest, it is about the guys making their home in this strange land. I doubt they can even find a clue to go back. Anyway, with just the information based on the anime alone, there are no way to tell if this was magic or technology cause. They could have secretly developed a giant ass machine with alien help right? Quote:
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2013-12-30, 09:49 | Link #27 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Shouldn't we have been seeing signs of this alien party by now? Last edited by Keroko; 2013-12-30 at 10:26. |
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2013-12-30, 11:08 | Link #31 | |
Working Hard
Join Date: Sep 2012
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For everyone else wondering, the book is available in the internet with open license. You could read it at http://catb.org/esr/writings/homesteading/homesteading/ Last edited by ices; 2013-12-30 at 12:23. |
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2013-12-30, 11:12 | Link #32 | |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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2013-12-30, 11:13 | Link #33 | ||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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The first line loosely translates as "The book was one of the inspirations for Log Horizon." |
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2013-12-30, 11:46 | Link #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Dont ya worry about...the next episode...world fraction will throw even more theory about the origin of this whole mess...me is more to the alternate world with supranatural cause of the whole mess due to the explanation regan/re=gun give to shiroe
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2013-12-30, 12:13 | Link #35 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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While I'm of the opinion that Log Horizon is a fantasy world they've been transported to, much like what happened to the main character of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (only without the fantasy world replacing the real world aspects), there's something I don't think I've seen pointed out.
Namely that for all that people like to bring up that Elder Tails was a mouse and keyboard MMO, not a VR game, and therefore it can't be like SAO, there's something that argument overlooks. Namely that "The World" in the .hack franchise was also a mouse and keyboard MMORPG. That has not stopped the franchise from revolving around people being trapped in the game in one way or another. Indeed, it started with .hack//Sign where the main character Tsukasa was trapped in his character, walking around with the game pretty much real to him, even though it was still a game for everyone else. Likewise, in the second .hack//G.U. game, and I suppose I should spoiler this: Spoiler for .hack//G.U. Volume 2:
And so on, and so forth. They games also feature as a bonus AI copies of some characters of varying quality. There's also an AI indistinguishable from a human player, and a character that's either a master hacker roleplaying as a kid, roleplaying as someone that only exists in the game, or is another AI indistinguishable from a person. The trapped in the game aspects have no technical explanation that I'm aware of, indeed no real explanation at all that I'm aware of, of how someone in a coma nowhere near a computer with the game installed, is trapped in the game. To the viewer or player, it is essentially magic. Indeed, .hack//Link, where I generally stopped following the franchise, feature it's basic plot being the main character being physically transported into the game. So yeah, Elder Tales being a mouse and keyboard game does not automatically preclude them from having been sucked into, or copied into the game. |
2013-12-30, 12:56 | Link #36 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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In any case, I wasn't proposing that it was the actual reasoning behind the Catastrophe rather to illustrate that both are off in the outfield; one just happens to be in the left and the other happens to be in the right. In addition, your second paragraph of accepting the potential for an infinite number of different alternate realities also allows for what you deride as implausible to be possible on an equal level to what you're proposing as your base assumption is "if you accept this central conceit on the basis of suspension-of-disbelief then X is possible." The issue with this is that we the viewer have not been exposed to any exposition with regards to the actual nature of the universe, nor have we been provided with any hints as to the nature of the Catastrophe, so the acceptance of any central conceit is based solely upon one's individual preference as opposed to any evidence within the work itself. Or to directly quote you since you appear to have reached the same conclusion earlier on... Quote:
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You can regard everything they're doing now as a coping mechanism and distraction so they don't get stuck in the existential horror loop of questioning one's own existence, however given that the base implication is that all of these people were average and mostly normal on our scale of reference, it seems to be a generally non-issue. What I mean by this is how often do you question your own existence? Does it ever actually paralyze you with indecision? Generally speaking no, you might have the odd thought about it late at nice when you're trying to sleep and can't but on the whole most people would probably view it as a silly mental exercise; the Adventurers would be the same. Yes, their reality has drastically changed however there's really no benefit or logical point to questioning such a basic assertion (it's relevance largely being on the meta scale for the viewer) for a sane individual; you assume that until otherwise informed you are and carry on. Somebody who doesn't take this view is either insane or a philosopher with far too much time on their hands; the average person likely wouldn't be caught up in "am I/this real?" but instead the more familiar question of "what do I do now?" That seems to be the direction of Log Horizon focusing not on the metaphysics but instead on the tangible question of day-to-day living as most people tend to do. |
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2013-12-30, 14:16 | Link #37 | |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Which kind of explains why Tsukasa only realized he was trapped when he tried to log out. Something a tad harder to justify if it was mouse and keyboard. |
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2013-12-30, 14:32 | Link #38 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
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They wear goggles/headsets but they still play the game via keyboard/controller/something analogue. It's roughly comparable to our VR systems in that it's just an audio-visual system in goggle form that doesn't hijack the senses or mess with the brain like SAO's set up.
Last edited by WhiteJoker; 2013-12-30 at 15:06. |
2013-12-30, 15:03 | Link #39 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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So yeah, for all intents and purposes, "The World" is a mouse and keyboard game. |
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