F/SN UBW TV - Episode 7 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[Rev Okkin]

ufotable bringing in the goods!
With all good thins said, there are things that bugged me.
1. A lot of still frames for an action episode. Hopefully this is something like what I heard from BL, the "Rider barrel" thing where they had a lot of still frames of Rider in FZ episode 11 for TV which was effectively replaced with more shots and sequences for the BD.
2. Yeah, a lot of episodes including this one needs editing. BD better be good.
3. I love the OST and I can't wait to get it.

[Random14]

Lots of great fights, although nothing quite conclusive. Glanced through Fate/Zero recently, the Saber and Assassin fight reminded me of Saber's rivalry with the Fourth War's Lancer, but at least this one won't end so depressing for all involved. Well, I know this was written first of course, and Fate/Zero had all the angst and dishonorable means turned up to 11, so nice to see Saber and Assassin treating each other respectfully without a dark end to come.

Though it was short, nice to see Assassin hold off Archer, as well as the effect it had on Shirou. Saber had it right, Shirou is so passive most of the time, there's something off about him (heck Archer trying to kill him doesn't anger him much), but being compared to Archer is what really sets him off, because of the contrast and similarities there.

Shirou still isn't much good in a fight, but glad to see the start of him training up for the serious fights. That idiot exchange was funny, hope Ufotable keeps some of the lighter moments in this adaptation, such as Rin calling Shirou out. The eraser part is a... not a bad end, but more embarrassing, but still would love to see it animated. Saber is still getting a good deal of focus (of course), but looking forward to more Rin next week after her absence these last two episodes.

[MCAL]

I could have swore Rin used her command seal to stop Archer from killing Shirou at this point, but I guess that was later.

[Death Usagi]

I am the Bone of my sword

Archer's tragic death scene on the empty field with blades

So much action.

Ufotable is truly the god.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by MCAL

I could have swore Rin used her command seal to stop Archer from killing Shirou at this point, but I guess that was later.

Next episode for sure, in the VN she tells Shirou the next day that she used it on Archer.

[Death Usagi]

I like that scene with Archer and Shirou both saying "What?" when Caster said they are the same kind of individuals XD

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by MCAL

I could have swore Rin used her command seal to stop Archer from killing Shirou at this point, but I guess that was later.

Nope, this event made her do that. She didn't really have a reason for it before.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Uhm, there is no extra line you know...

The dialogues are all from the VN.

Didn't say it was anime original or anything. Just that we now have fish face.

[goblehook]

Wow, the animation team must really be a fan on FSN. And their financier didn't aren't really concerned with the profit ratio when they set their budget.

[Kanon]

10/10 episode. Archer is too awesome.

I never realized just how hard Archer raped Caster until now. She never stood a chance.

The other star of the episode was Assassin. I've always been impressed by him, he can keep up with the strangest servant through sheer sword skill. Wish we could have seen more of his skirmish with Archer.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I never realized just how hard Archer raped Caster until now. She never stood a chance.

It wasn't even his "final form" yet

[Dengar]

I know some people put Assassin down for not being a "real" legendary soul. But I hope this episode proves that his swordsmanship is the real deal.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

ufotable bringing in the goods!
With all good thins said, there are things that bugged me.
1. A lot of still frames for an action episode. Hopefully this is something like what I heard from BL, the "Rider barrel" thing where they had a lot of still frames of Rider in FZ episode 11 for TV which was effectively replaced with more shots and sequences for the BD.

I felt the same way. I actually contemplated that this might happen, since this was the most anticipated episode of this first season for me, and I can still remember how the most anticipated Fate/Zero episode (11 - The Banquet of Kings) was aired in quite the unpolished state. They did improve the wonky art for the BD release, but all the lingering, static and dull shots from afar were left intact, and I doubt this episode of UBW will be any different, which is a bit disappointing. It's not like this kind of corner-cutting is new for ufotable (really it goes back all the way to Kara no Kyoukai), but they really went overboard here, even reusing some of the same shots twice. Honestly, cinematography-wise, save for a few cool moments like Assassin's Tsubame Gaeshi, this was actually one of the most uninspired episodes thus far IMO. And animation-wise, save for the brief skirmish between Archer and Assassin, none of the action really touched the fights with Lancer in episodes 0 and 1.

Don't get me wrong, it was still pretty enjoyable, but I felt the story events in this episode called for more. Perhaps it's my expectations for ufotable that were unrealistic, and they're not quite as Unlimited Budget Works as the first few episodes made it seem. I just hope the animation quality doesn't decrease as much as Fate/Zero's, which started out great but then sorta fizzled out in S2.

It was only in watching this episode that it dawned on me how much Saber and Kojiro's relationship mirrors the one she had with Diarmuid in Zero. He even protected her from another opponent like Diarmuid did with Lancelot. It's a good thing for them that Saber's current Emiya Master is actually cool with chivalry.

[quigonkenny]

I think a lot of people are like me and are going to have less of a problem with the "lingering, static and dull shots from afar" because the art is so good. There are plenty of mid-range and close up shots of people talking to go along with the long shots, and the truth is that there are going to be a lot more "shots of people talking" to go along with the ones we've seen already. As long as they're nice to look at, I don't mind if ufotable takes those opportunities to shut the pocketbook for a time.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

I think a lot of people are like me and are going to have less of a problem with the "lingering, static and dull shots from afar" because the art is so good. There are plenty of mid-range and close up shots of people talking to go along with the long shots, and the truth is that there are going to be a lot more "shots of people talking" to go along with the ones we've seen already. As long as they're nice to look at, I don't mind if ufotable takes those opportunities to shut the pocketbook for a time.

Well I'm not trying to rain on people's parade here, but I actually didn't think the art was all that consistently good either. Sure, some of those were in the midst of relatively quick battle sequences, but they were still pretty noticeable to me, unlike anything in fight scenes from previous episodes. It was mostly Archer vs Caster though, which I felt had very little in the way of actual quality animation. It wasn't bad (like say Archer vs Lancer in DEEN's UBW), but even stuff like Rin escaping from Lancer's attack in episode 0 or her pursuing Shirou in episode 5 were a lot more impressive animation-wise.

And it wasn't just the range of the shots that was the problem for me, the framing in general was a bit too plain (though shots like these were nice). Perhaps it's because of the episode director, whoever he was I felt his work was somewhat lacking compared to that of previous episodes. And the story events of this episode definitely warranted the highest quality staff and production values, which is why I feel somewhat disappointed even though I still enjoyed watching it quite a bit.

[HtwoN]

I don't see any problem in saving the animation budget for the action scenes and making the talking scenes simple. (Or you are waiting for walking-in-circle style?) And I don't think they lacks dynamic, thanks to the polished art.

Static-shot-from-afar is Ufotable style for some times already. You just have to get used to it. Yes, they even used this style in movies like KnK. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

Animation wise, the fighting scenes are really great. Assassin vs. Saber, Archer dodging Caster beam, "I am the bone of my sword", Tsubame Geashi, Assassin vs. Archer are really gorgeous.

Ufotable isn't perfect. But they know how to use flashy effects to cover up the flaws. And they have to save budget for the second cour, where more epic fights take place.

I have to say that some people are expecting too much.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Well I'm not trying to rain on people's parade here, but I actually didn't think the art was all that consistently good either. Sure, some of those were in the midst of relatively quick battle sequences, but they were still pretty noticeable to me, unlike anything in fight scenes from previous episodes. It was mostly Archer vs Caster though, which I felt had very little in the way of actual quality animation. It wasn't bad (like say Archer vs Lancer in DEEN's UBW), but even stuff like Rin escaping from Lancer's attack in episode 0 or her pursuing Shirou in episode 5 were a lot more impressive animation-wise.

Every scenes in a quick battle sequence looks shit, because they are suppose to view in "sequence". I can link some really bad shots from the fights you praised if you want. I think you are just nit-picking.

And the standing shots are easy to fix. So wait for BD.

[HandofFate]

i don't think I ever get tired of reading/watching Saber get schooled by Assassin.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

I don't see any problem in saving the animation budget for the action scenes and making the talking scenes simple. (Or you are waiting for walking-in-circle style?) And I don't think they lacks dynamic, thanks to the polished art.

You don't need a lot of budget to make talking scenes visually engaging, just skillful storyboarding. Plenty of shows like Neon Genesis Evangelion had relatively limited budgets but still managed to make talking scenes look interesting with unique angles and memorable shots. I think ufotable is generally good at it too, but this episode was not their best work IMO.

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Static-shot-from-afar is Ufotable style for some times already. You just have to get used to it. Yes, they even used this style in movies like KnK. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

Well I find it to be a lazy and visually dull style, and therefore bad, especially when overused as it was in this episode. You're free to disagree, but you're not going to invalidate my view with something like that. I could just as well say "you may like it, but that doesn't mean it's good."

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Every scenes in a quick battle sequence looks shit, because they are suppose to view in "sequence". I can link some really bad shots from the fights you praised if you want. I think you are just nit-picking.

Again, I could just as well say I think you're being overly apologetic, it's all in the eye of the beholder. And obviously I did view it as a sequence initially, it's not like I was watching the episode while stopping it frame by frame, and even then I already noticed the art looked choppy and not up to par (during Archer vs Caster). Nothing of the sort happened while I was watching the Lancer fights, where the character models were generally much more polished and consistent. But I guess I shouldn't expect the standard episodes 0 and 1 set to be the norm, since ufotable probably had those two episodes cooking in the oven for quite a while.

As for them saving their budget for S2, I'd like to believe so, but the exact opposite happened with Fate/Zero (not only that, the BD versions were virtually identical to the TV ones), so I can't be too sure.

[GDB]

The only standing scene I felt was overused/not done well was when Archer and Shirou were standing there and the camera was looking at them from the molten crater. Otherwise it was fine.