Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Q&A/Discussion about Character Powers

[HypeDemolition]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I am not one of those who think Nobody can compete with Tatsuya, that's exaggerated. We know a lot of persons at this level, even if he is likely to win all his fights he is certainly not beating opponents like Miyuki, Masaki, Lina, Mayumi, and the likes easily and I have yet to see someone post a convincing way for Tatsuya to hit Katsuto. He can beat Maya but that's only because her power is a bad match up against his magic.
.

I agree to some extent. Normally, he has his limiter active and is trying to keep his real magic under wraps and is willing to take just about any damage in order to do so because he has regrowth. So, under those conditions he'll have trouble coming up with ways to defeat his opponents while not giving away too much but when he's allowed to go all out, I doubt we'll see any one opponent that will give him trouble in combat, and that's fine because this isn't a series where power will solve everything.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Under what kind of circunstances (that obviously didn't happen and likely won't)?

Normal circumstances. It's just that she has not the mentality of a soldier, like when a character refuse to kill a villain for some reason.

Originally Posted by HypeDemolition

I agree to some extent. Normally, he has his limiter active and is trying to keep his real magic under wraps and is willing to take just about any damage in order to do so because he has regrowth. So, under those conditions he'll have trouble coming up with ways to defeat his opponents while not giving away too much but when he's allowed to go all out, I doubt we'll see any one opponent that will give him trouble in combat, and that's fine because this isn't a series where power will solve everything.

Tatsuya's limiter isn't very restrictive, his high psion count rises even more and he can use MB with the use of Third Eye. If he uses his gram spells with a CAD, the psion consumption is reduced anyway. Even with his limiter he can already spam these 2 with ease.

[HypeDemolition]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Normal circumstances. It's just that she has not the mentality of a soldier, like when a character refuse to kill a villain for some reason.



Tatsuya's limiter isn't very restrictive, his high psion count rises even more and he can use MB with the use of Third Eye. If he uses his gram spells with a CAD, the psion consumption is reduced anyway. Even with his limiter he can already spam these 2 with ease.

As far as I remember, we don't know the full effects of his limiter so I still consider it to be a burden on him until it's specified exactly what it's doing to him. Even so, the fact that he tries to hide his true magic as much as he can is enough of a burden on him in combat with high level magicians like Lina or Masaki, and that's the main reason he's shown to have difficulties in most of his fights. Katsuto is the only one that seems like he'd be able to be a good match against Tatsuya, I can agree with that.

[Lazy cat]

well we actualy see he using flying type magic with easy during the yokohama arc, i don't think he could have done so with his powers sealed.

Spoiler for vol 7 ch12:

The locust swarm wasn't being burned to death, merely disappeared upon being burned, but that was only a portion of the entire swarm.
Despite the repeated Phonon Mazers striking the rapidly approaching locusts, the swarm continued to close in on the descending helicopter.
Honoka noticed this as well, but since her magic was unsuitable for meeting the enemy, she held back in fear that her magic would interfere with Shizuku's own.
Just as the locust swarm was about to engulf the helicopter.

A hurricane of annihilation swept across the swarm.

Like a dream, the black cloud of locusts lost cohesion and swiftly vanished as their colors died away.
Honoka and Shizuku both looked skyward.
Half a step late in detecting the anomaly, Mayumi and Suzune also swept their gazes skyward.
There, a black figure hovered in the air with a silver CAD in hand.
"Tatsuya...?"
There was no way to tell if Shizuku or Honoka said this.
More combat personnel wearing the same black suits appeared and formed a protective barrier around the helicopter.
The cargo helicopter began to descend once more.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by HypeDemolition

As far as I remember, we don't know the full effects of his limiter so I still consider it to be a burden on him until it's specified exactly what it's doing to him. Even so, the fact that he tries to hide his true magic as much as he can is enough of a burden on him in combat with high level magicians like Lina or Masaki, and that's the main reason he's shown to have difficulties in most of his fights. Katsuto is the only one that seems like he'd be able to be a good match against Tatsuya, I can agree with that.

Maybe we don't know everything but that's unlikely IMO, we know only that his psion count rise and that he can use MB with Third Eye.
Regrowth is near instant even with limitations, Mist Dispersion disintegrates everything, limited or not, ES is not limited. He is able to spam counter magic with his hand or with a CAD because his psion count is way above anyone.
The fight against Masaki was a game with power limitations, his life wasn't threatened, against Lina he didn't held back. Without limiters it wouldn't change a thing since he would have not used MB, he hadn't even Third Eye.

Originally Posted by Lazy cat

well we actualy see he using flying type magic with easy during the yokohama arc, i don't think he could have done so with his powers sealed.[/SPOILER]

He used it in vol 11 as well(with limitations). And flight magic isn't very important since it''s not his power, everybody with the device can use it.

[CatRules]

Originally Posted by HypeDemolition

As far as I remember, we don't know the full effects of his limiter so I still consider it to be a burden on him until it's specified exactly what it's doing to him. Even so, the fact that he tries to hide his true magic as much as he can is enough of a burden on him in combat with high level magicians like Lina or Masaki, and that's the main reason he's shown to have difficulties in most of his fights. Katsuto is the only one that seems like he'd be able to be a good match against Tatsuya, I can agree with that.

It doesn't matter. Lina was too fast. Since he couldn't decompose her first HMB, it means her casting speed was higher than his(same problem with parade). Mist Dispersal is also ineffective against subatomic attack like HMB which mean he has not defense against it and if it kill him, he dies for good. The reason why he won was already half mentioned: Lina didn't want to kill him and Tatsuya confused her to slow down her casting speed.

[HypeDemolition]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Maybe we don't know everything but that's unlikely IMO, we know only that his psion count rise and that he can use MB with Third Eye.
Regrowth is near instant even with limitations, Mist Dispersion disintegrates everything, limited or not, ES is not limited. He is able to spam counter magic with his hand or with a CAD because his psion count is way above anyone.
The fight against Masaki was a game with power limitations, his life wasn't threatened, against Lina he didn't held back. Without limiters it wouldn't change a thing since he would have not used MB, he hadn't even Third Eye..

Spoiler for Masaki Fight:

Masaki broke the power limitation rule on accident, Tatsuya could have took care of the magic anyways but only used gram demolition to erase 14 of the 16 and was willing to take the other two bullets to stick to his orders, this is an example of how a "difficult" battle was only that way because of him holding back.

As for his fights with Lina, I don't know if you can completely say he wasn't holding back considering he wasn't trying to kill her at any point, he didn't even really want to fight her. That's different from her being hesitant about it, that's just her not being hardened enough.

Originally Posted by CatRules

It doesn't matter. Lina was too fast. Since he couldn't decompose her first HMB, it means her casting speed was higher than his(same problem with parade). Mist Dispersal is also ineffective against subatomic attack like HMB which mean he has not defense against it and if it kill him, he dies for good. The reason why he won was already half mentioned: Lina didn't want to kill him and Tatsuya confused her to slow down her casting speed.

You're right about her speed, but

Spoiler for Lina Fight:

when Lina used HMB against him, he was also in a little "mad scientist" mode, thinking about Brionac, yet he was still ready to use its force to get some distance.

Lina could have killed him, yes, but at the end of the day she didn't. He knew how to distract her and when he was ready, he took her out. Just because she has a magic that can kill him, doesn't mean it was a hard for him to beat her. My point wasn't that there aren't people who can kill him, just that everyone he fights ends up pretty simple in the end, but I'll admit she was more tricky than the rest so far due to Parade.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by HypeDemolition

Spoiler for Masaki Fight:

Masaki broke the power limitation rule on accident, Tatsuya could have took care of the magic anyways but only used gram demolition to erase 14 of the 16 and was willing to take the other two bullets to stick to his orders, this is an example of how a "difficult" battle was only that way because of him holding back.

As for his fights with Lina, I don't know if you can completely say he wasn't holding back considering he wasn't trying to kill her at any point, he didn't even really want to fight her. That's different from her being hesitant about it, that's just her not being hardened enough.

Yes, Masaki screwed up and Tatsuya could have negated the shots but Masaki regretted his actions because his attacks were too powerful, that's the point. Tatsuya was unscathed only because of Regrowth. Before that they were competing normally with weak attacks, in a deadly fight Masaki would obviously use Rupture and stronger spells, Tatsuya would use MD as well.

For the fight against Lina he said he didn't held back himself at the airport and since nobody wanted to kill, they had the same handicap. Tatsuya used her mental weakness to beat her.

That's why I said that to really see how another of those OP magicians can compete against Tatsuya, it has to be a deadly fight.

[IceHism]

Well, if it's going to be a deadly fight, it has to be someone that isn't introduced to us for us to like like Lina. The head of the Saegusa might possibly be the first deadly fight he has against a competent magician that is near or even above his skill level.

(this is honestly one of the reasons why i was so annoyed that the Heavenly general just died from 1 spell without even fighting, i wanted to see him face against Tatsuya since they would both fight to the death and both are strategic class magicians)

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by IceHism

(this is honestly one of the reasons why i was so annoyed that the Heavenly general just died from 1 spell without even fighting, i wanted to see him face against Tatsuya since they would both fight to the death and both are strategic class magicians)

To tell the truth I feel such an idea is quite a waste for magicians labelled as 'strategic class'. They wouldn't be able to use their most destructive magics unless they have special super cads like Sirius'.

Let Tatsuya fight to the death with close combat magicians and lets leave the strategic magicians for use against large body and and group targeting.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Well, if it's going to be a deadly fight, it has to be someone that isn't introduced to us for us to like like Lina. The head of the Saegusa might possibly be the first deadly fight he has against a competent magician that is near or even above his skill level.

(this is honestly one of the reasons why i was so annoyed that the Heavenly general just died from 1 spell without even fighting, i wanted to see him face against Tatsuya since they would both fight to the death and both are strategic class magicians)

You remind me that we have yet to see Mayumi's big bros. Maybe we'll see the heir in vol 13.

[Syokool]

Originally Posted by hakazee

Yeah, I think so too.
Elemental Sight, Mist dispersal and Material Burst is ok.


But Tatsuya's Regrowth is Over Kill. Too powerfull.

Even Tatsuya can kill Chuck Norris.

I'm sure people will start arguing about Tatsuya being too OP, but I don't think he is the first character like that.

Also, the whole setting is about magic in society. How magicians are used as weapons, and wonder what will Tatsuya do.

He is OP, can destroy anything, and almost (if not) invincible, but those things are just some kind of "power". He has not the power to overrule the Yotsuba, nor to set himself free without any collateral damage to other people.

Trying to make Tatsuya some kind of character that grows up in power it's not the purpose of this series.

[nosaer]

Tatsuya being too OP is an interesting arguement that you guys like to bring up. Yes Tatsuya has some incredibly powerful abilities, but their scope is limited, and Tatsuya is terrible at regular magic because of it. Just because he seems to have an insanely powerful ability, doesn't mean he is without weaknesses that can be (and have been) exploited.

From what I see the arguement always hinges on 2 of his magics. Material burst, and Regrowth.

Material burst is insanely powerful, but there are other Magics that can be just as powerful. they just haven't been exposed to us yet since most strategic class magics and magicians are top secret. We do know that Miguel Diaz has one that can create a similar effect to the scorched halloween explosion.

His regrowth Magic has the ability to instantly restore any injury he receives is really what makes him OP in a fight. But I'm sure that even this ability has a limot or weakness of some sort that hasn't been explained yet.

Tats is a unique character because his strengths and weaknesses are pretty clearly defined. you could consider Miyuki OP, Juumonji definitely has the potential to be OP. I haven't even seen him break a sweat yet in his fights. Maya is probably OP as well as her magic strikes fear in the hearts of other magicians besides Tats who matches well against it.

I think he is a powerful character, but not necessarily an over powered one. his Magic also has some that it is weak against, such as the juumonji barrier and if he is a bad match for someone, he doesn't have a powerful alternative magic to rely on because his is pretty one dimensional

[Meltyred]

Tatsuya may be strong, but his material burst is useless in a fight since even something as small as a droplet of water can create massive explosions.... well until we find out his regrowth makes him unkillable even if he uses material burst in his face.
Then he becomes a walking nuke zombie... haha

He is stuck using only a select few types of magic, and aside from his counter-magic, we can consider them about as strong as if a average magician had used it, so nothing too frightening there.
However, other high leveled magicians we have seen can use magics that Tatsuya can never use, and still be able to wield their own specialties freely, giving them a edge over Tatsuya.

So far nobody who has that kind of prowess has fought Tatsuya seriously, which is why he probably didn't break a sweat.

[Miraluka]

^
Basically, this.

So you say there are characters than can beat him up but just so happens they won't fight him. Therefore the ones who face him off ends curbstomped.

[Galacticichi]

Not that they won't but it just hasn't happened yet, is what I think Meltyred was saying.

[pampz21]

Most of the scene in the OP tells us how powerful the other characters and the weight they carry on their shoulder but doesnt show OPness of Tatsuya. Thing that took my attention is really Erika. There wasnt a trace of magic but was able to apply flash step~

[Echizen777]

Nosaer: Totally agree with you

Originally Posted by Meltyred

He is stuck using only a select few types of magic, and aside from his counter-magic, we can consider them about as strong as if a average magician had used it, so nothing too frightening there.
However, other high leveled magicians we have seen can use magics that Tatsuya can never use, and still be able to wield their own specialties freely, giving them a edge over Tatsuya.

What made me realize how limited he was vol.9, Miyuki was so awesome and versatile with her magic. When you compare this to his powers, he isn't that OP.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Most of the scene in the OP tells us how powerful the other characters and the weight they carry on their shoulder but doesnt show OPness of Tatsuya. Thing that took my attention is really Erika. There wasnt a trace of magic but was able to apply flash step~

Man, you are, you are... just fabulous.

[IceHism]

Is it really easy to stop Mist Dispersal? It seems like if Tatsuya sees you within a 1000m, he can disintegrate you into dust like what he did versus the sniper and the soldiers. It only doesn't work against Juumonji but that is only 1 person

[BW95]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Is it really easy to stop Mist Dispersal? It seems like if Tatsuya sees you within a 1000m, he can disintegrate you into dust like what he did versus the sniper and the soldiers. It only doesn't work against Juumonji but that is only 1 person

Mist Dispersal is like any other spell. So it can be stopped like any other spell.