Protests over George Floyd killing

[MCAL]

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/st...51520055459847

This is a pretty good (continuing) thread about all the police brutality that's been happening.

[Jaden]

The police brutality looks pretty real, but as I understand, the crackdown is a reaction to the mass looting and vandalism that took place during the protests.

I feel for the peaceful protesters getting swept up, but shouldn't they have seen that coming?

Rights to assemble and protest are contingent on public order being maintained.

[Ithekro]

Its not helping that both sides seem to think the others are fascists. Just with different leadership options.

The left is sure Trump is the fascist, and the right seems to believe these sudden protests are too suspiciously well planned and prepared, and think they are under Soro's pocketbook to "destroy the country" or again bring in fascist rule under the cover of liberal propaganda.

They are likely both wrong. (or the more disturbing thought would be if both are correct, just that the protestors are correct about Trump, but the right is correct about the vandals and looter being planted for Soro's goals).

[Jaden]

the right seems to believe these sudden protests are too suspiciously well planned and prepared, and think they are under Soro's pocketbook

Yeah, those may or may not be a thing, but a few paid actors instigating riots are only effective when there is serious underlying social unrest for them to exploit.

When politicians point to these kinds of scapegoats, it's usually so that they can avoid talking about other issues. They either don't have an answer to those issues, or their answer would be too politically incorrect to say. Easier to keep pretending that America is great and all troubles are due to some terrorist interference.

[Guardian Enzo]

False equivalency on parade.

Trump is the proverbial duck where fascism is concerned. If it walks like one, sounds like one, acts like one and admires them...

[Skulkraken]

...Soros? Really?

You seriously believe in that stupid anti-semitic QAnon conspiracy theory bullshit?

[OH&S]

An appropriate analogy:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/8Y7FDDt8EBM

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Anyways, what's going on in the states is beyond disgusting. And no I'm not talking about the looting (which I believe are being done by opportunists, anarchists and people with so much rage that they have no healthy way of dissipating it; all being exacerbated by the current economic and health crisis).

The Minneapolis PD clearly f*cked up by not nipping the situation in the bud ASAP (when the video was going viral). And their resulting response is too little too late.

The police as a general force have also f*cked up with numerous documented cases of police brutality on not only peaceful protestors but also bystanders and the press (from Australia as well). Which is a shame because there are plenty of police that aren't being complete dogshit (and being generally decent with the peaceful protestors). But because of the heavy handed actions of those caught on tape and actively taking steps to suppress said information (by blocking internet etc), no one's gonna trust the police in said cities after this (even more so than before).

And conservatives in general should get a disproportionate amount of blame here for going out of their way to incite more violence. But not surprising coming from the orange turd/coward/despot/snowflake himself.

Shits being flung everywhere.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Its not helping that both sides seem to think the others are fascists. Just with different leadership options.

The left is sure Trump is the fascist, and the right seems to believe these sudden protests are too suspiciously well planned and prepared, and think they are under Soro's pocketbook to "destroy the country" or again bring in fascist rule under the cover of liberal propaganda.

They are likely both wrong. (or the more disturbing thought would be if both are correct, just that the protestors are correct about Trump, but the right is correct about the vandals and looter being planted for Soro's goals).

I do sympathize with the protests, but not the looting. I can understand black community wanting to nott die and can get the ordinary people not wanting to lose their job after weeks of lockdown. But when you pull whataboutism on behalf of the far right, i have need to remind you how, in this context, unironically parotting /pol/ conspiracy theories is tasteless.

I used to know you as someone a bit more knowledgeable and level headed, but ever since this election, you have been... disappointing. I myself tried to be understanding of Trump voters, I really tried but every days, they showed what digusting beings they really are. I will not say I opened my eyes, I will just say I am tired.

I also expect the cops that started all of this to be acquited.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I also expect the cops that started all of this to be acquited.

I expect they'll be cops again within months...

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I expect they'll be cops again within months...

If that happens, what you have seen in the last week will be minimal if those guys get off.

[Magin]

Well, since this topic is its own thread now, I can go a little deeper on this particular subject matter. On one hand, this is forcing everyone to confront one of America's biggest problems. On the other hand, this is ultimately going to be a failure.

An explanation: Police brutality against blacks and other PoC is really only the surface problem; a symptom, if you will. I think (hope) many of us would agree there's a larger system at work, especially in the Southern US, to keep it going. Sure, the current protesting is going to get a result... but ti's going to be a bandage for amputation. Once some sort of make-people-happy legislation passes, everyone will go back to only worrying about the coronavirus... which while still an issue, it means that everyone would be squandering the current situation. Although people have lost their jobs, it means now is the PERFECT time to go from protesting police brutality, to protesting the legislation that makes it possible. After this, people should be protesting on Capital Hill, over at the very least, their local government offices, to get even MORE of the terrible laws that are(n't) in place changed. But of course, everyone will forget about this once something happens to placate the current situation. Yes, protesting can be hard, but it also gets shit done.

Granted, I know I'm one to talk, considering I'm outside the US and have no intention of returning anythime soon...

[frivolity]

Just to make the discussion much clearer for everyone, how about we all explicitly set out our positions on the following:

1. What fault does each side play in terms of the looting and rioting?

2. What should be done going forward?

3. What will likely happen?

By "each side", I'm referring specifically to the following three groups:

• The left
• The right
• Others (e.g: the police, the media, etc)

If you believe that a particular group is totally not at fault, then write that out explicitly.

Here's my position:

1. What fault does each side play in terms of the looting and rioting, and why?

The left:

• Incorrectly painting most police officers as being racist when most of them aren't.
• Not adequately speaking out against looting and rioting.
• State governors failing to instruct police to enforce law and order or to call in the national guard when it became clear that the situation was getting out of hand.

The right:

• Failing to speak out against incompetency in the police force.
• Trump unnecessarily instigating additional violence.

Others:

• Police: Using excessive force against peaceful protesters/reporters and too little force against looters and rioters.
• Media: Hyper-partisan coverage on both sides.
• Celebrities: Starting a movement to pay bail fees for looters and rioters.

2. What should be done going forward?

The horse has bolted. The police are being overwhelmed and the only remaining option seems to be to call in the national guard unless things improve drastically over the next few days, which I find quite unlikely.

3. What will likely happen?

• Trump/the state governors will eventually call in the national guard.
• NRA membership and gun sales will skyrocket as people begin to realise that the police won't be there to defend them and their property from looters and rioters. Gun control will not be a point of discussion in November campaigns.
• Derek Chauvin will receive jail time (not sure how long), while the other three police officers will receive lighter punishments.
• George Floyd's name will be repeatedly brought up in November but he'll largely be forgotten in a couple of years.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by frivolity

Just to make the discussion much clearer for everyone, how about we all explicitly set out our positions on the following:

1. What fault does each side play in terms of the looting and rioting?

2. What should be done going forward?

3. What will likely happen?

By "each side", I'm referring specifically to the following three groups:

• The left
• The right
• Others (e.g: the police, the media, etc)

If you believe that a particular group is totally not at fault, then write that out explicitly.

Here's my position:

1. What fault does each side play in terms of the looting and rioting, and why?

The left:

• Incorrectly painting most police officers as being racist when most of them aren't.
• Not adequately speaking out against looting and rioting.
• State governors failing to instruct police to enforce law and order or to call in the national guard when it became clear that the situation was getting out of hand.

The right:

• Failing to speak out against incompetency in the police force.
• Trump unnecessarily instigating additional violence.

Others:

• Police: Using excessive force against peaceful protesters/reporters and too little force against looters and rioters.
• Media: Hyper-partisan coverage on both sides.
• Celebrities: Starting a movement to pay bail fees for looters and rioters.

2. What should be done going forward?

The horse has bolted. The police are being overwhelmed and the only remaining option seems to be to call in the national guard unless things improve drastically over the next few days, which I find quite unlikely.

3. What will likely happen?

• Trump/the state governors will eventually call in the national guard.
• NRA membership and gun sales will skyrocket as people begin to realise that the police won't be there to defend them and their property from looters and rioters. Gun control will not be a point of discussion in November campaigns.
• Derek Chauvin will receive jail time (not sure how long), while the other three police officers will receive lighter punishments.
• George Floyd's name will be repeatedly brought up in November but he'll largely be forgotten in a couple of years.

frivolity,

So what should we do? Just let thing play out as so. Let unarmed black men and women getting killed for no reason and they get off with nothing at all. We should just "kicked the can down the road" for the next generation to deal with. I am a black man that know first hand the horrors of this and its not only dealing with police but from jobs to even how to take care of our kids. We are sick and tired of being sick and tired. There is no real change or anything like that we are going back to the status quo if we go by your ideas.

[Key Board]

It's the same as Covid19
Forget, go back to work, continue to consume, get those stock market numbers up.
so that someone can brag about it and claim he helped poor and middle class Americans.

But that just proves that economic damage is the only thing that will get politicians to listen

I've been looking into the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Many conditions of that time mirror that of today.
They even had riots for several days.
That's see if it has the same ending.

//

[ramlaen]

https://twitter.com/ArgoJournal/stat...32185689702401

Spoiler for image size:

And keep in mind this poll was taken before what happened last night in NYC.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I've been looking into the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Many conditions of that time mirror that of today.

Yeah, but I want to point out one important difference. Back then, civilians did not possessed automatic weaponry like they do today. Add to that a potus that is egging his followers to use them and it is just a matter of time for shit to hit the fan. We have already had a trucker trying to ram civilians, that was stopped, but something like what happened in vegas in 2017 cannot.

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

Yeah, but I want to point out one important difference. Back then, civilians did not possessed automatic weaponry like they do today. Add to that a potus that is egging his followers to use them and it is just a matter of time for shit to hit the fan. We have already had a trucker trying to ram civilians, that was stopped, but something like what happened in vegas in 2017 cannot.

That's true. If he declares martial law. They don't even need the military involved.
There's enough cultist with guns out there willing to remove blacks, journalists, and asian americans.

Perhaps this was Stephen Miller's plan all along.

//

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by ramlaen

https://twitter.com/ArgoJournal/stat...32185689702401

Spoiler for image size:

And keep in mind this poll was taken before what happened last night in NYC.

Nevermind, I was going to say that "So they are okay sending the military to hurt rioters and peaceful protests?" This country is so doomed. When you have people thinking like this? There will be no change or advancements, just more pain and suffering with the same ole, same ole. Yep this country is so doomed!

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I do sympathize with the protests, but not the looting. I can understand black community wanting to nott die and can get the ordinary people not wanting to lose their job after weeks of lockdown. But when you pull whataboutism on behalf of the far right, i have need to remind you how, in this context, unironically parotting /pol/ conspiracy theories is tasteless.

I used to know you as someone a bit more knowledgeable and level headed, but ever since this election, you have been... disappointing. I myself tried to be understanding of Trump voters, I really tried but every days, they showed what digusting beings they really are. I will not say I opened my eyes, I will just say I am tired.

I also expect the cops that started all of this to be acquited.

I am simply reporting what I see from people I know in real life on both sides of the aisle have posted to believe on Facebook. These are all people I know who are all Vietnam veterans. Some walked with the hipppies in San Francisco, and others were spit on by hippies when they came home. All have had careers and retired. All are in their late 60s or 70s. But the wide, wide range of difference of opinion, seemingly looking at the same facts, is what I find odd.

One of these is my father, who I know tries to avoid the media as much as possible, having lost faith in them thirty years ago. He I consider reactionary against the Democrats, partly because of Vietnam (Johnson was a Democrat, while the president that got my father out of Vietnam, via ending our involvement was Nixon, a Republican). He didn't care for Reagan, but likes Trump, because of the America First business.

The other two, one is a friend of the family who use to work for the Federal government and researches each thing it seems, sees the Democrat party as a false protector that is only making the people conform and easier to control by stripping away freedoms a little at a time..."for your safety". He sees the violent protesting as Brown shirts.

The last is a gamer friend. He walked with the hippies. Stood with the Native Americans. He's heavily into hard Science Fiction. He's very anti-Trump, and anti-fascist. He also looks into a lot of things, and pokes into the social media. His views seems to match those of the second person mentioned above, but in the opposite way. He sees the Republican party as the Brown shirt coming again.

My point is that people who seem quite sound and knowledgeable that I know see things very differently and post a lot on Facebook. (This happens as well during the Obama administration, but it never got this bad.) Thus I am presenting them both because this double narrative seems to be running parallel with both sides seeing similar things, but putting the blame on the opposing parties. It has gotten to the point where I am getting suspicious that both sides are being played. To what end, I am not sure. Chaos for sure. But generating chaos usually has a rational goal behind it. Usually one tried to sweeping in to look like the hero by restoring order, or freedom, but actually being the very thing that was being fought again, but no one sees it until it is too late and the junta or whatever starts, and freedom dies.

[Key Board]

if they really wanted to prevent riots they should have arrested those officers eartly, and at least charge 2 of them with murder.

But they're not interested in that.

They're more interested in arresting 4000+ and counting, to protect police brutality.

Most importantly, they should stop murdering black people just because they can.
Did it stop at George Floyld? They were even more murders after that.

//