Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[endarion88]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

I see three possibilities in the upcoming battle:

1. Both forces come to a stalemate and withdraw.

2. Inaho figures out a way to defeat 4 counts and 2 landing castles by himself (The height of nonsense prediction, but par for the course for this series).

3. We continue with Slaine's conflicted feelings from this episode, and he turns on his Vers allies. He assists Inaho and Co. in winning the battle for Earth. That way, he can take Inaho to Asseylum. Inaho and Slaine have a makeup session for their disagreement in episode 7.

slaine will never do this

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by Pegasai

Motivation is pretty important here. With Lelouch...yes the guy committed atrocities and had an ego the size of the entire planet, but ultimately, everything he did was to make the world a better place for his sister. It was more of an "ends justify the means" situation. Lelouch really didn't care about himself - the point that he was willing to throw away his life. In fact, he didn't even want to live after he thought his sister was dead.

With Slaine, however, the motivation appears to be far less pure. It seems increasingly clear (especially with this new episode) that he's not conquering Earth/indulging in dirty politics for Asseylum or for her ideals. His statement of more or less settling for power if he can't stay close to Asseylum shows that ultimately, he's very self-centered. Furthermore, his one saving grace--his feelings for Asseylum--seems more like obsession and possessiveness rather than love.

So it's not surprising that more people hate Slaine.

Pretty much.

I'm not a really a fan of Lelouch and I dont like his personality at all, but regardless of that and his motives, he was fighting against the agresssors in that show and that is why I was supporting him.
But Slaines actions and motives are just way too extreme. Taking part on genocide, using people he is supposed to love and respect, betraying people left and right etc... I don't know how someone can support that and excuse everything with "poor Slaine is suffering"...

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Pegasai

Motivation is pretty important here. With Lelouch...yes the guy committed atrocities and had an ego the size of the entire planet, but ultimately, everything he did was to make the world a better place for his sister. It was more of an "ends justify the means" situation. Lelouch really didn't care about himself - the point that he was willing to throw away his life. In fact, he didn't even want to live after he thought his sister was dead.

With Slaine, however, the motivation appears to be far less pure. It seems increasingly clear (especially with this new episode) that he's not conquering Earth/indulging in dirty politics for Asseylum or for her ideals. His statement of more or less settling for power if he can't stay close to Asseylum shows that ultimately, he's very self-centered. Furthermore, his one saving grace--his feelings for Asseylum--seems more like obsession and possessiveness rather than love.

So it's not surprising that more people hate Slaine.

Actually, it's really the western audience that just seems to hate Slaine, I love him myself and I know there are others like me, so we're not a very small minority of the western audience. Eastern audience on the other hand is the exact opposite, Slaine is very well liked over there and is the most popular character in the show. So, it really depends on your audience when you're talking "that more people hate Slaine".

As for motivating, I think his original motivation is pure, and I think that at its center it still is. He wants to make a society that is good for all Martians and not just the elite where they are not dying because of having no resources and horrible living conditions, without having any kind of support because of the feudal system that is always putting them down. However, in order to do this, he has to be able to control all the power of Vers since the power of Aldnoah is controlled from the very top. However, to do this, he's had to take some dark paths that may or may not consume him, depending on where this goes from here.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

Pretty much.

I'm not a really a fan of Lelouch and I dont like his personality at all, but regardless of that and his motives, he was fighting against the agresssors in that show and that is why I was supporting him.
But Slaines actions and motives are just way too extreme. Taking part on genocide, using people he is supposed to love and respect, betraying people left and right etc... I don't know how someone can support that and excuse everything with "poor Slaine is suffering"...

Genocide? Now I know people hate Slaine, but lets not make things up.

[bastek66]

Hahaha, that would be Birth of a Supervillain, if he wasn't him already.

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Genocide? Now I know people hate Slaine, but lets not make things up.

What was Saaz planning and doing and who was his right hand man till he decided to drop him like a hot potato and betray him? The little snake Slaine...dun, dun, duuuuun...

[DevilHighDxD]

L-elf and Lelouch are well like because their counterpart suck, this isn't the case with Aldnoah Zero with such polarizing fanbases for both of the main characters. Also I kinda curious on what bad things did L-elf had done that made you think he worst than Slaine, Lulu maybe but L-elf?

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Genocide? Now I know people hate Slaine, but lets not make things up.

Somehow people think that continuing to fight a war that someone else and many, many other factors started = genocide. Slaine has never been seen to hate Terrans or specifically want all of them to die. If he did, he could easily just meteor bombard all cities and Terran refuges from space and kill all of them indiscriminately, however no one seems to note that the only people he's attacked or ordered to attack are soldiers and military targets who are perfectly legal targets during war.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

What was Saaz planning and doing and who was his right hand man till he decided to drop him like a hot potato and betray him? Slaine...dun, dun, duuuuun...

Again what genocide?

[Raviel]

You know this episode made me hope for one thing in this show; no matter what happens to Slaine or what other actions he might take, I sincerely hope he tells Lemrina the truth about her sister (and anything else for that matter).

I neither like nor hate Slaine, but seeing him lie to Lemrina's face followed by all her dialogue after that scene was mildy, painful to watch. This episode makes it abundantly clear that any haughtiness or brattiness we saw from her is skin deep at best, Lemrina is broken (literally and figuratively).

I'd go as far as saying she's so deprived of self-worth that she probably thinks this "relationship" she has with Slaine is the single best thing that has ever happened to her.

Man, Lemrina is probably the most tragic character in this series, I mean no one even comes close at this point. Even Asseylum is probably better off than her and she's had at least 3 attempts on her life.

[Dauerlutscher]

Taking part in a war that is intended to exterminate millions of people is genocide, but we had this debate a couple of episodes ago...

Originally Posted by bastek66

Hahaha, that would be Birth of a Supervillain, if he wasn't him already.

Maybe he will get to the Supervillain level of Bizon from Buddy Complex...

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

L-elf and Lelouch are well like because their counterpart suck, this isn't the case with Aldnoah Zero with such polarizing fanbases for both of the main characters. Also I kinda curious on what bad things did L-elf had done that made you think he worst than Slaine, Lulu maybe but L-elf?

I made the example because people were mad at Slaine for destroying Trident base and killing Terran soldiers, when to me those are all perfectly legal targets. Yet, L-elf killed people indiscriminately civilian or soldier and destroyed whole areas both during war and during peacetime, both before and after he met Haruto. His morals were much more dark gray than Slaine's. Now, don't get me wrong I LOVE L-elf and Lelouch, they are my favorite characters in either series. I just don't think that Slaine should be getting the hate that he is getting, but that's just my opinion.

[Nicaea]

At this point Lemrina is a wildcard. Her actions could go all minds of ways. After all, if all fails she can stil pretend it's not her who's in trouble.

Barouhcruz way too calm. At first I was somewhat suspicious of Slaine's aide, but Barouhcruz is way too calm about this. Seeing him chastise Mazuurek really feels weird. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the orbital knights turn on Slaine once they've achieved a big part of their goal. They already didn't bat an eye at the thought of killing Seylum before, so why would they hesitate now? Barouhcruz could very well be the new big bad that will unite Slaine and Inaho (then again Inaho has hurt Slaine's pride in some ways ) Mazuurek should follow Barouhcruz' advice and keep an eye on him.

Those guys over at UE have become complacent. In the time that Earth wasn't attacked as much, they should have sought for ways to bolster their defenses and try to see how they can have military might that's at least on an equal footing with the military might of Vers' orbital knights.

I liked how Inaho and Marito figured out the weakness of that Kataphrakt, but it's a bummer that they missed their chance. It's as if they were fighting a boss and had a strategy that was beginning to formulate, only to see it be for naught as a second and a third boss joins in. Inaho is forced to retreat, but that won't be easy considering the knights now work together.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Raviel

You know this episode made me hope for one thing in this show; no matter what happens to Slaine or what other actions he might take, I sincerely hope he tells Lemrina the truth about her sister (and anything else for that matter).

I neither like nor hate Slaine, but seeing him lie to Lemrina's face followed by all her dialogue after that was mildy painful to watch. This episode makes it abundantly clear that any haughtiness or brattiness we saw from her is skin deep at best, Lemrina is broken (literally and figuratively).

I'd go as far as saying she's so deprived of self-worth that she probably thinks this "relationship" she has with Slaine is the single best thing that has ever happened to her.

Man, Lemrina is probably the most tragic character in this series, I mean no one even comes close at this point. Even Asseylum is probably better off than her and she's had at least 3 attempts on her life.

I honestly do hope he tells her, but I think that he's more afraid of what she'll do if she finds out Asseylum is alive.

He knows that she hates her, at least by her own admission, and that she says she won't let the grudge go. He knows that she's jealous of her as well, and that if she finds out that her sister is alive she might go off the deep end and try to kill her.

I'm actually not sure what Lemrina will do. She's apologetic now, thinking that her attempt to murder her sister might actually lead to her death. But what will actually happen if Lemrina finds that her sister is alive and well on Slaine's new castle? With her unstable emotions, I'm actually not sure.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

Taking part in a war that is intended to exterminate millions of people is genocide, but we had this debate a couple of episodes ago...

Eh, I don't read every topic. But I really don't see Slaine's action as genocide. But if you can interpret it that way, fine I guess.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Eh, I don't read every topic. But I really don't see Slaine's action as genocide. But if you can interpret it that way, fine I guess.

The question is what will Vers Rebells do if the Terrans lose the war? Will they be exterminated, put into slavery, or become the new "elevens"?

[Raviel]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I honestly do hope he tells her, but I think that he's more afraid of what she'll do if she finds out Asseylum is alive.

He knows that she hates her, at least by her own admission, and that she says she won't let the grudge go. He knows that she's jealous of her as well, and that if she finds out that her sister is alive she might go off the deep end and try to kill her.

I'm actually not sure what Lemrina will do. She's apologetic now, thinking that her attempt to murder her sister might actually lead to her death. But what will actually happen if Lemrina finds that her sister is alive and well on Slaine's new castle? With her unstable emotions, I'm actually not sure.

I do admit my soft spot for tragically-broken-but-still-kinda-dangerous girls in anime got in the way of my thinking back there

But I do agree with this, like someone else already said, Lemrina is the wildcard in all of this.

On another note, who do you guys think is the Earth counterpart to the Slaine-Harklight tagteam we'll be seeing later on? I'd say Inaho-Marito or Inaho-Rayet would be likely candidates

[monster]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Somehow people think that continuing to fight a war that someone else and many, many other factors started = genocide. Slaine has never been seen to hate Terrans or specifically want all of them to die. If he did, he could easily just meteor bombard all cities and Terran refuges from space and kill all of them indiscriminately, however no one seems to note that the only people he's attacked or ordered to attack are soldiers and military targets who are perfectly legal targets during war.

Slaine doesn't dictate how Mars should conquer Earth, but he is still the one who pushes the counts to focus on conquering Earth and leave the details to them. Some counts are careful in what destructions they cause and others may not be as careful. Also, one reason why they don't indiscriminately attack is because they want to preserve the Earth for themselves.

And regardless if Slaine himself only attacks military targets, Mars is still the aggressor in this conflict. So those military targets are people who are only defending themselves against the invading Martians. He does not need to personally commit or command actual genocide in order to be considered at fault for what he and/or the people under him does and/or has done in this conflict.

[Raziel1991]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Again what genocide?

episode 10

Yuki: If this place is destroyed... Terrans might go extinct (18:17)

Sounds like genocide to me. In other words, Slaine is leading the genocidial invasion Saazbaum started.

[vic-vic]

I hope to see UEF mounting an MASSIVE counter-offense against Martians, as they know about Deucalion's reputation among Vers and used him as a bait