Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Q&A/Discussion about Magic & Technology

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by caminhas

i doubt it's only that, i mean if lina had half of tatsuya's psion count i don't see why she wouldn't be able to use Gram Demolition.

And Maya calls him a monster due to his other power (aka Decomposition, Regrowth and ES).

Gram Demolition is a rare talent, you can't perform it only with a high psion count otherwise magicians like Miyuki and Mayumi would be able to use it as well. So far, Tatsuya and Tomitsuka are the only characters with the talent to use it.

Originally Posted by expertsource

Someone said that Tatsuya's psion count twice bigger than lina's when it is restricted(%50). So his true psion count four times bigger than Sirius angel(lina) that's why i can understand why maya call him monster(psion count one of the reasons).
İs this a true information? Do we know Tatsuya's psion count compared to lina or others?

His psion count must be quite bigger than Lina but she was not talking about psion count at this time, she was thinking about how Taatsuya nullified Niflheim and Muspelheim and considered that it could have been because he has twice her IS, which is not true. Her theory was wrong because her magic knowledge is poor, she doesn't know Gram Dispersion.

Spoiler for Quote:

On the other hand, cancelling the effects of Muspelheim.

Neutralizing magic required interference power exceeding that of the magic being neutralized.

Even if she conceded that he had greater interference power than herself who was a Sirius, at that time, he had also affected Miyuki’s magic.

In that frozen area, her own Muspelheim and Miyuki’s Niflheim had battled for supremacy.

As the two opposing activation sequences had clashed, only the effects had cancelled each other, the magic had not been neutralized. In order for magic to be neutralized, a calculation sequence must overwrite the magic sequence.

In short, at that time, if the resources that Tatsuya commanded had neutralized the magic then he had invoked over twice Lina’s interference power.

The moment she thought of that, Lina became unable to quell the shaking in her body.

If that was really possible, then Tatsuya must secretly posses a technique that used power of that magnitude.

If there was a method other than neutralization to cancel the effects of magic, then it would also destroy more than the magic sequence.

Lina also knew that attacking with a high pressure stream of psions was also a means of destroying a magic sequence but at that time, there was no sign of that.

It had not been destroyed by an outside attack, it had been destroyed by interfering with the inner information structure — the Stars vice commander, Benjamin Canopus might have been able to figure out that Tatsuya had used ‘Gram Dispersion’ to do that. However, Lina was unaware of the magic known as Gram Dispersion.

She had been young (immature might be more appropriate) when she joined the Stars troop; unlike a normal girl, she had an abundance of combat experience but aside from that she had not been able to take enough time to acquire enough knowledge. Of course, compared to a normal (magic) high school student, she had a large variety of knowledge, but the quantity of knowledge you have is limited by the time spent acquiring it. No matter how well she was versed in the knowledge she had, information she hadn’t learned could not exist in her mind.

The unease gripping Lina was brought about by the lack of time studying caused by the deficiency of her ability to expand her experience. To put it simply, the girl was too young to be the commander of the Stars.

It might be better to say that it was the embodiment of the weaknesses of the abhorrent practice of the doctrine of complete relying on strength to determine leadership.

Until now, that weakness hadn’t really affected her, but now she had a mission outside her home country with insufficient support staff against an opponent like Tatsuya who had not only had opportunities to acquire combat experience but had formidable knowledge and technical skills, and she was paying the price for her deficiencies.

[somerand]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Gram Demolition is a rare talent, you can't perform it only with a high psion count otherwise magicians like Miyuki and Mayumi would be able to use it as well. So far, Tatsuya and Tomitsuka are the only characters with the talent to use it.



His psion count must be quite bigger than Lina but she was not talking about psion count at this time, she was thinking about how Taatsuya nullified Niflheim and Muspelheim and considered that it could have been because he has twice her IS, which is not true. Her theory was wrong because her magic knowledge is poor, she doesn't know Gram Dispersion.

Spoiler for Quote:

On the other hand, cancelling the effects of Muspelheim.

Neutralizing magic required interference power exceeding that of the magic being neutralized.

Even if she conceded that he had greater interference power than herself who was a Sirius, at that time, he had also affected Miyuki’s magic.

In that frozen area, her own Muspelheim and Miyuki’s Niflheim had battled for supremacy.

As the two opposing activation sequences had clashed, only the effects had cancelled each other, the magic had not been neutralized. In order for magic to be neutralized, a calculation sequence must overwrite the magic sequence.

In short, at that time, if the resources that Tatsuya commanded had neutralized the magic then he had invoked over twice Lina’s interference power.

The moment she thought of that, Lina became unable to quell the shaking in her body.

If that was really possible, then Tatsuya must secretly posses a technique that used power of that magnitude.

If there was a method other than neutralization to cancel the effects of magic, then it would also destroy more than the magic sequence.

Lina also knew that attacking with a high pressure stream of psions was also a means of destroying a magic sequence but at that time, there was no sign of that.

It had not been destroyed by an outside attack, it had been destroyed by interfering with the inner information structure — the Stars vice commander, Benjamin Canopus might have been able to figure out that Tatsuya had used ‘Gram Dispersion’ to do that. However, Lina was unaware of the magic known as Gram Dispersion.

She had been young (immature might be more appropriate) when she joined the Stars troop; unlike a normal girl, she had an abundance of combat experience but aside from that she had not been able to take enough time to acquire enough knowledge. Of course, compared to a normal (magic) high school student, she had a large variety of knowledge, but the quantity of knowledge you have is limited by the time spent acquiring it. No matter how well she was versed in the knowledge she had, information she hadn’t learned could not exist in her mind.

The unease gripping Lina was brought about by the lack of time studying caused by the deficiency of her ability to expand her experience. To put it simply, the girl was too young to be the commander of the Stars.

It might be better to say that it was the embodiment of the weaknesses of the abhorrent practice of the doctrine of complete relying on strength to determine leadership.

Until now, that weakness hadn’t really affected her, but now she had a mission outside her home country with insufficient support staff against an opponent like Tatsuya who had not only had opportunities to acquire combat experience but had formidable knowledge and technical skills, and she was paying the price for her deficiencies.

"Gram Demolition... I had an inkling you were capable, Tatsuya-kun... And you didn't disappoint."

"Mayumi, you know what that was?"

Mayumi glanced at Mari, who was itching to approach, and swiftly looked back towards the viewing screen.

"Gram Demolition uses compressed psion particles to directly detonate the target by charging forward without using the Information Dimension. This Counter Magic is accomplished by forcibly blowing away all the accompanying Activation and Magic Sequences — anything that has traces of magic psions recorded on it.

This is a magic that demolishes the record of magic (Gram), hence the name Gram Demolition.

While it is called magic, this is strictly a psion cannon ball that makes no attempt to use Magic Sequences to alter reality. This way, Gram Demolition is not restricted by Data Fortification or wide area interference, and the cannon ball's own pressure would reject any effects of Cast Jamming.

Since there's no actual physical effect, physical obstructions can do nothing.

This way, the magic that your opponent is casting is forcibly blown away by the psions.

In order to halt that kind of furious charge, a multi-layered defensive wall of psions might barely hold up.

Besides its rather short effective range, there are almost no weaknesses. Along with Gram Dispersion, Gram Demolition is known as one of the strongest Counter Magics within Nonsystematic Magic... But there are very few people capable of performing this feat.

I cannot do it either.

Since this isn't an interference ability but a true dispersion, I am unable to create that kind of force with my psion count.

In summation, it's a super heavyweight!"




Mayumi's psion count isn't high enough to use it. As far as Miyuki goes she might not have a high enough psion count either. I guess another explanation could be that she is capable of using it if she wanted to learn it but chooses not to. She identified duel wielding CAD's as Tatsuya's speciality and she didn't want to do so for that reason alone even if she was capable of doing so. It's possible she simply views gram demolition as her "Oni-sama's" technique and chooses not to use/learn it just like dual wielding CAD.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by somerand

"As far as Miyuki goes she might not have a high enough psion count either. I guess another explanation could be that she is capable of using it if she wanted to learn it but chooses not to. She identified duel wielding CAD's as Tatsuya's speciality and she didn't want to do so for that reason alone even if she was capable of doing so. It's possible she simply views gram demolition as her "Oni-sama's" technique and chooses not to use/learn it just like dual wielding CAD.

She herself said she wasn't ready to dual wield not that she didn't want to use it.

(Dual-wielding CADs!? Shizuku, you managed to accomplish that?)

Seeing Shizuku's left hand also holding a pistol-shaped CAD, Miyuki inwardly wavered.

Wielding multiple CADs simultaneously was her brother's trademark ability. It was an extremely difficult technique that was almost "unique".

Miyuki believed that, for someone who could so easily lose control of magic like herself, it was far too soon for her to challenge that ability that demanded absolute control of her psions. At the same time, she was terrified of infringing upon her brother's favored technique.


However, at the current moment, Shizuku was wielding a second CAD before her very eyes.

Without arousing interference from the psion signal waves, the second CAD completed its Activation Sequence.

Instantly, Miyuki's magic stopped.

The sustained magic was curtailed in mid translation.

Now, Shizuku's new magic stormed forward. "

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by somerand

"Gram Demolition... I had an inkling you were capable, Tatsuya-kun... And you didn't disappoint."

"Mayumi, you know what that was?"

Mayumi glanced at Mari, who was itching to approach, and swiftly looked back towards the viewing screen.

"Gram Demolition uses compressed psion particles to directly detonate the target by charging forward without using the Information Dimension. This Counter Magic is accomplished by forcibly blowing away all the accompanying Activation and Magic Sequences — anything that has traces of magic psions recorded on it.

This is a magic that demolishes the record of magic (Gram), hence the name Gram Demolition.

While it is called magic, this is strictly a psion cannon ball that makes no attempt to use Magic Sequences to alter reality. This way, Gram Demolition is not restricted by Data Fortification or wide area interference, and the cannon ball's own pressure would reject any effects of Cast Jamming.

Since there's no actual physical effect, physical obstructions can do nothing.

This way, the magic that your opponent is casting is forcibly blown away by the psions.

In order to halt that kind of furious charge, a multi-layered defensive wall of psions might barely hold up.

Besides its rather short effective range, there are almost no weaknesses. Along with Gram Dispersion, Gram Demolition is known as one of the strongest Counter Magics within Nonsystematic Magic... But there are very few people capable of performing this feat.

I cannot do it either.

Since this isn't an interference ability but a true dispersion, I am unable to create that kind of force with my psion count.

In summation, it's a super heavyweight!"




Mayumi's psion count isn't high enough to use it. As far as Miyuki goes she might not have a high enough psion count either. I guess another explanation could be that she is capable of using it if she wanted to learn it but chooses not to. She identified duel wielding CAD's as Tatsuya's speciality and she didn't want to do so for that reason alone even if she was capable of doing so. It's possible she simply views gram demolition as her "Oni-sama's" technique and chooses not to use/learn it just like dual wielding CAD.

That's the contrary, Mayumi is saying that she has the psion count but isn't able to create the dispersion and thus is unable to use it, her psion count was said to be high when she stopped Honoka in Volume 1 as well. Miyuki has a high psion count too but can't create the dispersion just like Mayumi, in Volume 3 her psion count was rated as top tiers. The skill to create the dispersion is what magicians with a high psion count lack and that's why GD is such a rare ability.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

That's the contrary, Mayumi is saying that she has the psion count but isn't able to create the dispersion and thus is unable to use it, her psion count was said to be high when she stopped Honoka in Volume 1 as well. Miyuki has a high psion count too but can't create the dispersion just like Mayumi, in Volume 3 her psion count was rated as top tiers. The skill to create the dispersion is what magicians with a high psion count lack and that's why GD is such a rare ability.

She said herself that she's unable to create that kind of dispersion because of her psion count. Which means, according to herself, her psion count is low compared to Tatsuya. I think Mari gave the best description with the brute swinging part.

However, I understand that the psion count is not the only factor. There must some other factors in order to accomplish that feat.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by maypayne

She said herself that she's unable to create that kind of dispersion because of her psion count. Which means, according to herself, her psion count is low compared to Tatsuya. I think Mari gave the best description with the brute swinging part.

However, I understand that the psion count is not the only factor. There must some other factors in order to accomplish that feat.

There is no one with a psion count rivaling Tatsuya excepted Tatsurou, obviously her psion count is lower than him but it is still very high(Volume 1). She said she can't create the force with her psion count because it is a dispersion, if Miyuki with her high psion count can't do it either, it's because she can't use her psion the same way Tatsuya and Tomitsuka do, they have not this talent. The brute swingning part was referring to Tatsuya's fighting style. Tatsuya psion count is vastly superior to anyone but his father, having a quantity of psion rivaling him is not the standard to use GD, it has been mentioned several times how rare this talent is.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

There is no one with a psion count rivaling Tatsuya excepted Tatsurou, obviously her psion count is lower than him but it is still very high(Volume 1). She said she can't create the force with her psion count because it is a dispersion, if Miyuki with her high psion count can't do it either, it's because she can't use her psion the same way Tatsuya and Tomitsuka do, they have not this talent. The brute swingning part was referring to Tatsuya's fighting style. Tatsuya psion count is vastly superior to anyone but his father, having a quantity of psion rivaling him is not the standard to use GD, it has been mentioned several times how rare this talent is.

That's what I said on my last sentence. I would really like to read a detailed explanation for this magic.

[Iramohs]

That's the contrary, Mayumi is saying that she has the psion count but isn't able to create the dispersion and thus is unable to use it, her psion count was said to be high when she stopped Honoka in Volume 1 as well. Miyuki has a high psion count too but can't create the dispersion just like Mayumi, in Volume 3 her psion count was rated as top tiers. The skill to create the dispersion is what magicians with a high psion count lack and that's why GD is such a rare ability.

Mayumi's psion count isn't high. She stopped Honoka because she uses copies of magic sequences to tear other magic sequences apart. That's how her counter magic works. It has nothing to do with psion count.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Iramohs

Mayumi's psion count isn't high. She stopped Honoka because she uses copies of magic sequences to tear other magic sequences apart. That's how her counter magic works. It has nothing to do with psion count.

It would not mean that her psion count is necessarily low. She used a Psion bullet to attack so it was NS magic. I am not sure that it was her counter magic since it was not named but if she uses copies of sequences it would mean that she can read them, or maybe I am missing something. Tatsuya did the same thing with his Psion bullet Far Strike in volume 11 but he decided to attack the caster and didn't read to create copies, as long as a psion bullet is used during the activation sequence, it's possible to stop a magic, it's all about precision and speed.

Spoiler:

Naturally, that was under the assumption that Tatsuya was unable to discern his opponents’ Activation Sequences.

So long as he acted during the deployment phase of the Activation Sequence, psion bullets would be sufficient even if he didn’t use decomposition.

Tatsuya reached out with his empty left hand.

In his left hand, he created the basic form of the compressed psion bullet, Far Strike, that he had been furiously training. Not only did he target the developing Activation Sequence, but mercilessly included the caster as well.

Tatsuya saw the Activation Sequence shatter into pieces.

Though the enemy Magicians were able to deflect the psion backlash, the damage suffered from the psion bullet rendered them unable to prepare the next spell.

Here is the quote about Mayumi's Psion count:

Spoiler for Quote:

Releasing a Psion bullet, while in itself the simplest form of magic, requires extremely precise control in order to destroy just the activation sequence and avoid any extraneous damage, and shows superb skill on the part of the user.

Upon recognizing the owner of that voice, the female student who was intent on attacking Erika and company became pale, and not as a result of the magic. She fell into another female student, and they collapsed.

The one who gave the warning, and had fired the Psion bullet, was the Student Council president, Saegusa Mayumi.

Her — as far as Tatsuya had seen — ever-smiling face, even now, did not have much severity in it.

However in the eyes of someone capable in magic, her small figure was wrapped in an aura of Psion light far beyond that of ordinary mages, giving her an inviolable air of dignity.

[Iramohs]

It would not mean that her psion count is necessarily low. She used a Psion bullet to attack so it was NS magic. I am not sure that it was her counter magic since it was not named but if she uses copies of sequences it would mean that she can read them, or maybe I am missing something. Tatsuya did the same thing with his Psion bullet Far Strike in volume 11 but he decided to attack the caster and didn't read to create copies, as long as a psion bullet is used during the activation sequence, it's possible to stop a magic, it's all about precision and speed.

I wasn't trying to necessarily say it was low, but it's not high either. Psion count really means nothing unless you use non-systematic magic like Tatsuya. Except when Ichijou was fighting during the Yokohama incident and he was running low.

Releasing a Psion bullet, while in itself the simplest form of magic, requires extremely precise control in order to destroy just the activation sequence and avoid any extraneous damage, and shows superb skill on the part of the user.

Upon recognizing the owner of that voice, the female student who was intent on attacking Erika and company became pale, and not as a result of the magic. She fell into another female student, and they collapsed.

The one who gave the warning, and had fired the Psion bullet, was the Student Council president, Saegusa Mayumi.

Her — as far as Tatsuya had seen — ever-smiling face, even now, did not have much severity in it.

However in the eyes of someone capable in magic, her small figure was wrapped in an aura of Psion light far beyond that of ordinary mages, giving her an inviolable air of dignity.

She also mentioned that she's unable to use gram demolition because she her psion count isn't high enough in volume 4. I think she has more than the average person, but nowhere near Tatsuya and Miyuki's.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Iramohs

I wasn't trying to necessarily say it was low, but it's not high either. Psion count really means nothing unless you use non-systematic magic like Tatsuya. Except when Ichijou was fighting during the Yokohama incident and he was running low.



She also mentioned that she's unable to use gram demolition because she her psion count isn't high enough in volume 4. I think she has more than the average person, but nowhere near Tatsuya and Miyuki's.

Master clan magicians do have higher psion counts than average magicians. Remember Ichijou's fight with Tatsuya. The psions that went into each shot was equal to a day's worth of an average magician.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Iramohs

I wasn't trying to necessarily say it was low, but it's not high either. Psion count really means nothing unless you use non-systematic magic like Tatsuya. Except when Ichijou was fighting during the Yokohama incident and he was running low.



She also mentioned that she's unable to use gram demolition because she her psion count isn't high enough in volume 4. I think she has more than the average person, but nowhere near Tatsuya and Miyuki's.

Using a psion bullet is NS magic, there is no event modification, it's just releasing Psions and it's not difficult either, every magicians can do it. I am saying that her Psion count is high because of the part that I bolded. Of course her Psion count is below Tatsuya but there is no reason to think that it is lower than Miyuki. As for the explanation in volume 4 I said that she was referring to her inability to use her psion count to create GD because she can't use it like a dispersion, and that's why Miyuki can't do it either even though her Psion count is high too.

Originally Posted by bakato

Master clan magicians do have higher psion counts than average magicians. Remember Ichijou's fight with Tatsuya. The psions that went into each shot was equal to a day's worth of an average magician.

I am not sure that they all have a high psion count. They are guaranteed to have good stats for modern magic but it's not the same for the psion count, Tomitsuka must have a higher quantity of psion than many TMC members even though he is not from the TMC, Tatsurou is another example too.

Only heavy users of NS magic must really have a high psion count nowadays. Tatsuya might be the only GD user with enough psion to counter Masaki's magics for so long. Only Tatsuya's Psion count was rated high during his match against Masaki, Masaki was using modern magic with a CAD, which means that his psion consumption was reduced and Tatsuya found the power of his magic sequences incredibly high, GD is NS magic, the psion consumption is not reduced when it is used according to volume 3.

Spoiler for Quote:

Thanks to the improvements in Activation Sequences, Magic Sequences and CADs, a limited psion count wouldn't cause the same problems with magic invocation. Excluding "Non-Systematic Magic" techniques that directly released psions, a high psion count is only seen as a beautiful decoration now.

[Iramohs]

Master clan magicians do have higher psion counts than average magicians. Remember Ichijou's fight with Tatsuya. The psions that went into each shot was equal to a day's worth of an average magician.

The narrator wasn't talking about Masaki's psion count, but was referring to the fact that Masaki's magic sequences are more difficult to destroy, since he's so powerful. That's why Tatsuya had to use an excessive amount of psions per gram demolition in order to destroy them. Btw more pages in volume 14 chapter 1 have been translated. I think it's at 56/70 now.

[Rava]

Originally Posted by Iramohs

I wasn't trying to necessarily say it was low, but it's not high either. Psion count really means nothing unless you use non-systematic magic like Tatsuya. Except when Ichijou was fighting during the Yokohama incident and he was running low.



She also mentioned that she's unable to use gram demolition because she her psion count isn't high enough in volume 4. I think she has more than the average person, but nowhere near Tatsuya and Miyuki's.

Thinking about it, Mayumi saying that her psion count isn't high enough to create that kind of force can also mean that she's not efficient enough at using that kind of magic as well. (Agreeing that she doesn't have enough for it, just that it could have multiple meanings.) You're shown this after she comes out of a marathon of Multiple Bounce where people literally tired themselves out trying to do anything against her without her breaking much of a sweat. So there's no doubt that her Psion count is definitely much higher than the standard magician. But the vast majority of the magics she uses are definitely more finesse related. It wouldn't surprise me if she's just not used to dumping a large amount of her Psions in one spell rapidly, or just flat out can't because of how sensitive she is to even minute changes in efficiency (but that's of course speculation).

[Ravagerblade]

^Maybe she's just being modest? She does have quiet the sensitive sense to notice very minute changes in efficiency. Downplaying ability is common with some characters, Hell even Tatsuya does it.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

^Maybe she's just being modest? She does have quiet the sensitive sense to notice very minute changes in efficiency. Downplaying ability is common with some characters, Hell even Tatsuya does it.

I believe you are spot on with this. This is one of the things they have in common. Only display/use your power if you have to.

What would happen to her if she is equipped with the same CAD that Miyuki has which are Tatsuya designed and built?

[caminhas]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

^Maybe she's just being modest? She does have quiet the sensitive sense to notice very minute changes in efficiency. Downplaying ability is common with some characters, Hell even Tatsuya does it.

well but downplaying own abilities is one of the main thing tatsuya does in the series since he has some kind of inferiority complex, we don't see other characters doing this only tats.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by caminhas

well but downplaying own abilities is one of the main thing tatsuya does in the series since he has some kind of inferiority complex, we don't see other characters doing this only tats.

Mizuki could also be downplaying her skills and abilities specially if she is in fact one of the Yotsuba side families.

[caminhas]

Originally Posted by Armando99

Mizuki could also be downplaying her skills and abilities specially if she is in fact one of the Yotsuba side families.

mizuki barely have any screen time, i don't think she should be compared if she didn't even fight anyone in the series

[Rava]

Originally Posted by Armando99

I believe you are spot on with this. This is one of the things they have in common. Only display/use your power if you have to.

What would happen to her if she is equipped with the same CAD that Miyuki has which are Tatsuya designed and built?

It's probably not much. Tatsuya's adjustment on a regular CAD were negligible enough for him to consider it not worth mentioning. Sure, it seems unavoidable that she'll show improvement with a Tatsuya-designed CAD, but it sounds like it would be more due to her sensitivity than anything else -- she's already decent at adjusting her own CAD settings anyway.