AnimeSuki Forums

Endscape · 2016-08-03, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

This is how I see it. Emilia is the girlfriend where if you don't explain every single thing out in words, it'll always lead to arguments and misunderstandings (from my understanding this aspect of her carries on beyond this arc).

Where on Earth did you get this from?

HayashiTakara · 2016-08-03, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

I'd say it's more like Rem is the type that is impossible to have a discussion with--you'll definitely never be able to fight with her, for good or for ill--and will also make unilateral moves in the relationship based on what she thinks is best. Emilia will at least hear you out before making a decision. Rem will seem to be with you, but will refuse to be reasoned with if she thinks it's for your greater good or her mind has been made up. That's not a good thing in most romantic partnerships, btw.

Their last discussion went quite well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endscape

Where on Earth did you get this from?

From everything that has happened so far.

Endscape · 2016-08-03, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

From everything that has happened so far.

So because she doesn't accept everything Subaru says wholesale, even when he breaks his word and acts like an idiot, she's a difficult girlfriend?

Got it.

tokinokanatae · 2016-08-03, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Their last discussion went quite well.

It's charming that you consider that a discussion, considering that Rem completely denied Subaru's perspective as being important pretty much the entire step of the way. I guess if you consider a "discussion" a form of debate where both people present different sides without any interchange of ideas.

Don't get me wrong. I like Rem and I feel like she gave Subaru what he needed at this specific point in time. But from the beginning, Rem has been incapable of giving Subaru what he truly wants: a good person to devote himself to. Only Emilia fulfills his qualifications as far as that goes.

HayashiTakara · 2016-08-03, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endscape

So because she doesn't accept everything Subaru says wholesale, even when he breaks his word and acts like an idiot, she's a difficult girlfriend?

Got it.

I prefer a girl that understands me, and not leave me because I yelled at her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

It's charming that you consider that a discussion, considering that Rem completely denied Subaru's perspective as being important pretty much the entire step of the way. I guess if you consider a "discussion" a form of debate where both people present different sides without any interchange of ideas.

Don't get me wrong. I like Rem and I feel like she gave Subaru what he needed at this specific point in time. But from the beginning, Rem has been incapable of giving Subaru what he truly wants: a good person to devote himself to. Only Emilia fulfills his qualifications as far as that goes.

She wanted to have this discussion, but Subaru was adamant about not having it, he was intent that there's no other way. And when all Subaru can do is badmouth himself and refuse to see and acknowledge the good in him, Rem was able to refute it.

And not giving him a good person to devote himself to? wtf? Do you honestly believe that drivel that Rem isn't a good person to devote themselves to? Emilia will never ever be able to do what Rem has done, because Emilia can only understand what is told her.

lesterf1020 · 2016-08-03, 15:18

This is fun. I want to get into the shipping wars too!

So many people think Subaru is scum so why would they want him to be with the apparently perfect and flawless goddess known as Rem or the innocent maiden known as Emilia? You would think with all the Subaru hate and Rem worship going around that Subaru x Rem would be the most hated, least popular option. I am surprised no one is supporting a Reinhardt x Rem Combo. OP GaryStu perfection with waifu perfection.

I, personally, am in the Subaru x Betelgeuse camp. Yandere ftw! Nothing says I love you like capturing your significant other, chaining them up, licking their eyeballs and brutally murdering the competition. Plus, with their every meeting Betelgeuse constantly speaks of love while looking at Subaru and when rejected by Subaru chews his fingers in grief! Subaru yells his name with great passion swearing to do immoral things to him when they meet again and pleads with Betelgeuse to be the one to kill him and thus be close to him in death. Has Subaru yelled the name of Emilia or Rem with such passion? I certainly didn’t hear it.

Ask any homicidal yandere, it doesn't get more romantic than this! Did you see the glint in Subaru's eyes when he spoke of his passion for Betelgeuse with Crusch? His passion was so great that Wilhelm needed to step in to stop it from overwhelming his master. I never saw that for Emilia or Rem. What of his desperation to go back to Betelgeuse with the gift of an army? He was even willing to debase himself to get something suitable and Priscilla denied him, no doubt out of envy. Are Rem or Emilia willing to lick Subaru’s eyeballs? Are they willing to slaughter everyone that Subaru knows so that they can have him for themselves? I don't think so! I am sure it was the gentle hands of Betelgeuse that have been caressing Subaru's heart the whole series, stopping him from telling of their love to others. Who knew Betelgeuse was so shy? He wants to be alone with Subaru when they speak of love! When in the presence of Subaru Betelgeuse goes crazy, his excitement so great he contorts his body in glee. How can Rem and Emilia compete with that?

There is only one ship! All others are leaky canoes.
Subaru x Betelgeuse ftw. QED.

Endscape · 2016-08-03, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I prefer a girl that understands me, and not leave me because I yelled at her.

... So you want a robot, then?

Quote:

because Emilia can only understand what is told her.

Perhaps because she's not a mind-reader?

Sayaka Rei · 2016-08-03, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I prefer a girl that understands me, and not leave me because I yelled at her.

Who understands, or who never asks anything ? who could forgive whatever one person do ? Because to me, this seems as if Rem is the servant of Subaru, more than anything else ...

tokinokanatae · 2016-08-03, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

And not giving him a good person to devote himself to? wtf? Do you honestly believe that drivel that Rem isn't a good person to devote themselves to? Emilia will never ever be able to do what Rem has done, because Emilia can only understand what is told her.

Rem will never, ever be able to be Subaru's definition of a good person and the type of person he wants to give his life to. She already failed that back in the second arc.

The reason Subaru loves Emilia is that Emilia is "objectively" good. She will tell the truth even when it hurts her. She will help people even when it could lead to her downfall. It's like a compulsion. Subaru and Rem don't have that impulse. Rem is incapable of the type of trust Emilia has unless she loves the person in question. Subaru appreciates Rem's devotion, but wants to be special to someone like Emilia. That's why Rem can't win. She took herself out of the running when she was suspicious of him to the point of murder, and Emilia won from the moment she helped a child even when it meant her kingship was on the line.

SMT · 2016-08-03, 15:29

I haven't been in the animesuki forums for a long time now but this anime basically brought me back. Haven't been this excited about an anime since I think Steins;Gate.

This episode was super powerful and I rewatched it just to see if I missed stuff.
The fact they spent an entire episode on both characters talking about Subaru's flaws is extremly refreshing to me. I already noticed it in the past episodes but I think it's really interesting how self aware he is, sometimes questioning things I never expected a typical anime character to question or think about. I love his flaws.

I'm not really taking sides, I like both Emilia and Rem and I think his rejection is actually kinda realistic since love is usually irrational. If you fall into love with someone you only see that person, no one else. Since he was probably a shut in in his life before, Emilia actually saving him and paying attention to him probably made him fall in love with her.

I seriously like it this way and feel when he wouldn't have rejected her it would have felt very forced by the author.

moridin84 · 2016-08-03, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesterf1020

This is fun. I want to get into the shipping wars too!

So many people think Subaru is scum so why would they want him to be with the apparently perfect and flawless goddess known as Rem or the innocent maiden known as Emilia? You would think with all the Subaru hate and Rem worship going around that Subaru x Rem would be the most hated, least popular option. I am surprised no one is supporting a Reinhardt x Rem Combo. OP GaryStu perfection with waifu perfection.

I, personally, am in the Subaru x Betelgeuse camp. Yandere ftw! Nothing says I love you like capturing your significant other, chaining them up, licking their eyeballs and brutally murdering the competition. Plus, with their every meeting Betelgeuse constantly speaks of love while looking at Subaru and when rejected by Subaru chews his fingers in grief! Subaru yells his name with great passion swearing to do immoral things to him when they meet again and pleads with Betelgeuse to be the one to kill him and thus be close to him in death. Has Subaru yelled the name of Emilia or Rem with such passion? I certainly didn’t hear it.

Ask any homicidal yandere, it doesn't get more romantic than this! Did you see the glint in Subaru's eyes when he spoke of his passion for Betelgeuse with Crusch? His passion was so great that Wilhelm needed to step in to stop it from overwhelming his master. I never saw that for Emilia or Rem. What of his desperation to go back to Betelgeuse with the gift of an army? He was even willing to debase himself to get something suitable and Priscilla denied him, no doubt out of envy. Are Rem or Emilia willing to lick Subaru’s eyeballs? Are they willing to slaughter everyone that Subaru knows so that they can have him for themselves? I don't think so! I am sure it was the gentle hands of Betelgeuse that have been caressing Subaru's heart the whole series, stopping him from telling of their love to others. Who knew Betelgeuse was so shy? He wants to be alone with Subaru when they speak of love! When in the presence of Subaru Betelgeuse goes crazy, his excitement so great he contorts his body in glee. How can Rem and Emilia compete with that?

There is only one ship! All others are leaky canoes.
Subaru x Betelgeuse ftw. QED.

I imagine that you're also a fan of the Mirai Nikki OTP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endscape

... So you want a robot, then?

It's a common preference.

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Domonkazu · 2016-08-03, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by moridin84

I imagine that you're also a fan of the Mirai Nikki OTP.

It's a common preference.

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yep, but it's a bit old fashioned

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moridin84 · 2016-08-03, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domonkazu

yep, but it's a bit old fashioned

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Wanting the perfect girlfriend who always loves you and understands you and thinks you are wonderful is never out of fashion.

Dengar · 2016-08-03, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Set him free? Did he want to be set free? Did he give the slightest indication that he wanted to be set free?

What he wanted isn't the issue here. Every time he tries to repay his debt to her, he ends up getting hurt. She doesn't want to see him get hurt, therefore he releases him from his debt. What the fuck is so selfish about that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I prefer a girl that understands me, and not leave me because I yelled at her.

It wasn't because he yelled at her. V_V

People sure have a hard-on for attributing some kind of jerkass behavior to people where there isn't any.

AB079 · 2016-08-03, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domonkazu

yep, but it's a bit old fashioned

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But that is a girl who literally brainwashed and castrated her husbando.

HayashiTakara · 2016-08-03, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

Rem will never, ever be able to be Subaru's definition of a good person and the type of person he wants to give his life to. She already failed that back in the second arc.

The reason Subaru loves Emilia is that Emilia is "objectively" good. She will tell the truth even when it hurts her. She will help people even when it could lead to her downfall. It's like a compulsion. Subaru and Rem don't have that impulse. Rem is incapable of the type of trust Emilia has unless she loves the person in question. Subaru appreciates Rem's devotion, but wants to be special to someone like Emilia. That's why Rem can't win. She took herself out of the running when she was suspicious of him to the point of murder, and Emilia won from the moment she helped a child even when it meant her kingship was on the line.

What truth? all Emilia ever did was reprimand him for not listening to her. While Rem has told Subaru that he was pathetic and is okay with that. Rem accepts the good and the bad. Emilia doesn't want to deal with the bad parts of Subaru. To love someone you have to love everything about that person.

Yeah Rem took herself out so badly, that Subaru stopped caring about her, and didn't die for her multiple times. Oh wait. And because Subaru knew the importance of the crest in that moment, oh wait. Because Subaru actually knows Emilia really well, oh wait. He never admitted to not knowing her at all, oh wait.

I would ground yourself on the "Emilia winning", just a little warning so you won't fall too hard.

Endscape · 2016-08-03, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

What truth? all Emilia ever did was reprimand him for not listening to her..

Are you even watching this show? That isn't what Emilia reprimanded him for. Her problem was with him breaking his word, not to mention publicly embarrassing her.

tokinokanatae · 2016-08-03, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

What truth? all Emilia ever did was reprimand him for not listening to her. While Rem has told Subaru that he was pathetic and is okay with that. Rem accepts the good and the bad. Emilia doesn't want to deal with the bad parts of Subaru. To love someone you have to love everything about that person.

Yeah Rem took herself out so badly, that Subaru stopped caring about her, and didn't die for her multiple times. Oh wait. And because Subaru knew the importance of the crest in that moment, oh wait. Because Subaru actually knows Emilia really well, oh wait. He never admitted to not knowing her at all, oh wait.

I would ground yourself on the "Emilia winning", just a little warning so you won't fall too hard.

You're focusing too much on the fight Subaru had with Emilia and ignoring all the time he's spent watching her actions. Emilia tells the truth to her detriment. For example, she did it in episode three, when she could have lied about her heritage and avoided the judgment from Felt and Rom. Whereas Rem lied and left Subaru behind at the inn, because she assumed it was the best action to take for him.

Of course Subaru cares about Rem. He cared about her even when she murdered him. But she's not the type of person he'll love like he does Emilia, when he can see that Emilia will go so far as to sabotage herself to protect others--like the scene where she says she would never use her trump card if Subaru was in the radius back when Subaru was pretty much a total stranger.

I'm sorry you can't handle that the heroine of the series is Emilia. It's fine if you like Rem better, of course, but my tastes run closer to Subaru's and in the end, I agree with his choice.

***relentlessflame*** · 2016-08-03, 18:01

I think we're going to give the shipping wars a bit of a break now. It's been going on for days, and at this point people are a bit too emotionally-invested to consider the big picture and merits of both sides of the argument.

This thread may end up being unlocked again closer to the point where the next episode is going to air. Attempts to carry the shipping war into other threads will result in moderator action.

Ryuuoh DeltaPlus · 2016-08-09, 20:47

This.
THIS EPISODE.

Only brilliance can properly describe it.
Subaru finally breaking down and admitting the horrible person he is, pointing to all the pointlessness of all his actions and giving in to despair is nothing I've ever seen a main protagonist do in all the anime series I've watched. And Rem rescuing him from the depths of despair with that beautiful dialogue really made this episode shine a lot.

If I may put a little opinion, Subaru admitting that he loved Emilia right after Rem confessed to him do make sense. After all, who was the first person who made a huge impression to his life right after he was transported to that world? Who was his motivation that made him endure all the resets that he has experienced? It was Emilia. Hell, if Subaru didn't meet Emilia in the first place, there's almost zero possibilities of him meeting Rem.

View Poll Results: Re:Zero - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10	61	70.11%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	14	16.09%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	8	9.20%
7 out of 10 : Good	2	2.30%
6 out of 10 : Average	0	0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	1	1.15%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	1	1.15%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

2016-08-03, 15:18	Link #286
lesterf1020 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago	This is fun. I want to get into the shipping wars too! So many people think Subaru is scum so why would they want him to be with the apparently perfect and flawless goddess known as Rem or the innocent maiden known as Emilia? You would think with all the Subaru hate and Rem worship going around that Subaru x Rem would be the most hated, least popular option. I am surprised no one is supporting a Reinhardt x Rem Combo. OP GaryStu perfection with waifu perfection. I, personally, am in the Subaru x Betelgeuse camp. Yandere ftw! Nothing says I love you like capturing your significant other, chaining them up, licking their eyeballs and brutally murdering the competition. Plus, with their every meeting Betelgeuse constantly speaks of love while looking at Subaru and when rejected by Subaru chews his fingers in grief! Subaru yells his name with great passion swearing to do immoral things to him when they meet again and pleads with Betelgeuse to be the one to kill him and thus be close to him in death. Has Subaru yelled the name of Emilia or Rem with such passion? I certainly didn’t hear it. Ask any homicidal yandere, it doesn't get more romantic than this! Did you see the glint in Subaru's eyes when he spoke of his passion for Betelgeuse with Crusch? His passion was so great that Wilhelm needed to step in to stop it from overwhelming his master. I never saw that for Emilia or Rem. What of his desperation to go back to Betelgeuse with the gift of an army? He was even willing to debase himself to get something suitable and Priscilla denied him, no doubt out of envy. Are Rem or Emilia willing to lick Subaru’s eyeballs? Are they willing to slaughter everyone that Subaru knows so that they can have him for themselves? I don't think so! I am sure it was the gentle hands of Betelgeuse that have been caressing Subaru's heart the whole series, stopping him from telling of their love to others. Who knew Betelgeuse was so shy? He wants to be alone with Subaru when they speak of love! When in the presence of Subaru Betelgeuse goes crazy, his excitement so great he contorts his body in glee. How can Rem and Emilia compete with that? There is only one ship! All others are leaky canoes. Subaru x Betelgeuse ftw. QED. __________________ Experience is not what happens to a man. It is what a man does with what happens to him.

2016-08-03, 18:01	Link #299
*relentlessflame* 　 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 41	I think we're going to give the shipping wars a bit of a break now. It's been going on for days, and at this point people are a bit too emotionally-invested to consider the big picture and merits of both sides of the argument. This thread may end up being unlocked again closer to the point where the next episode is going to air. Attempts to carry the shipping war into other threads will result in moderator action. __________________ [...]

2016-08-09, 20:47	Link #300
Ryuuoh DeltaPlus A Random Lurker Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Philippines	This. THIS EPISODE. Only brilliance can properly describe it. Subaru finally breaking down and admitting the horrible person he is, pointing to all the pointlessness of all his actions and giving in to despair is nothing I've ever seen a main protagonist do in all the anime series I've watched. And Rem rescuing him from the depths of despair with that beautiful dialogue really made this episode shine a lot. If I may put a little opinion, Subaru admitting that he loved Emilia right after Rem confessed to him do make sense. After all, who was the first person who made a huge impression to his life right after he was transported to that world? Who was his motivation that made him endure all the resets that he has experienced? It was Emilia. Hell, if Subaru didn't meet Emilia in the first place, there's almost zero possibilities of him meeting Rem. __________________

2016-08-03, 15:29	Link #290
SMT Senior Member Artist Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: UK Age: 30	I haven't been in the animesuki forums for a long time now but this anime basically brought me back. Haven't been this excited about an anime since I think Steins;Gate. This episode was super powerful and I rewatched it just to see if I missed stuff. The fact they spent an entire episode on both characters talking about Subaru's flaws is extremly refreshing to me. I already noticed it in the past episodes but I think it's really interesting how self aware he is, sometimes questioning things I never expected a typical anime character to question or think about. I love his flaws. I'm not really taking sides, I like both Emilia and Rem and I think his rejection is actually kinda realistic since love is usually irrational. If you fall into love with someone you only see that person, no one else. Since he was probably a shut in in his life before, Emilia actually saving him and paying attention to him probably made him fall in love with her. I seriously like it this way and feel when he wouldn't have rejected her it would have felt very forced by the author.