Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Discussion about Other Topics

[kusabireika]

^ agree for me it will be fun to see mibu and kirihara moment in future episode especially if the animated vol 7 the lovers quarrel

[bacon123]

Back to earlier topic
tats went to First high because Miyuki enrolled there and so tats had to go aswell

[guestuser]

i just readed the late great favorite of mahouka and i just found out Kawahara Reki the creator of sword art online and accel world like mahouka hahahaha i just find this funny and so for some reason i can now see the hate behind this for some unknown reason and i can see why it has a large fanbase

[SoboSobo]

Originally Posted by guestuser

i just readed the late great favorite of mahouka and i just found out Kawahara Reki the creator of sword art online and accel world like mahouka hahahaha i just find this funny and so for some reason i can now see the hate behind this for some unknown reason and i can see why it has a large fanbase

he may be a writer and all, but his still a human like the rest of us why wouldn't he like mahouka?
Besides mahouka is pretty damn good story so far.

[bacon123]

Mahouka is a great story

[IceHism]

Someone told me that Tsutomu Satou was a conservative / right wing based on what he had been posting on Twitter. Can someone confirm? I got a different impression from reading Mahouka and wanted to know the author's original intent to correct my misinterpretation if I had any.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Someone told me that Tsutomu Satou was a conservative / right wing based on what he had been posting on Twitter. Can someone confirm? I got a different impression from reading Mahouka and wanted to know the author's original intent to correct my misinterpretation if I had any.

That's not the impression I got of him while reading his afterwords either...

But yeah, what is this tweet?

[Verisimilitude]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Someone told me that Tsutomu Satou was a conservative / right wing based on what he had been posting on Twitter. Can someone confirm? I got a different impression from reading Mahouka and wanted to know the author's original intent to correct my misinterpretation if I had any.

Eh, I follow his Twitter and don't see any posts that are particularly right-wing. Even if he is right-wing politically, so what? It's not like being labelled as a conservative is somehow a negative thing.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

That's not the impression I got of him while reading his afterwords either...

But yeah, what is this tweet?

I'm not sure, I had someone else inform me about this and Im not good enough in japanese to read his twitter nor know what tweet he was talking about
I agree with the afterwords though, it doesn't seem like he had any super right wing views from it

Originally Posted by Verisimilitude

Eh, I follow his Twitter and don't see any posts that are particularly right-wing. Even if he is right-wing politically, so what? It's not like being labelled as a conservative is somehow a negative thing.

I didn't say it was negative, but it may provide insight into how he wants people to look at his scenes. Cause well... Mahouka is about politics.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Someone told me that Tsutomu Satou was a conservative / right wing based on what he had been posting on Twitter. Can someone confirm? I got a different impression from reading Mahouka and wanted to know the author's original intent to correct my misinterpretation if I had any.

Really? Because that's exactly the impression I got from reading Mahouka. Though I haven't really got an impression one way or the other from the afterwords.

I mean, I got things like support for an authoritarian government, support for the military at the expanse of diplomacy, and complete contempt of egalitarianism.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Really? Because that's exactly the impression I got from reading Mahouka. Though I haven't really got an impression one way or the other from the afterwords.

I mean, I got things like support for an authoritarian government, support for the military at the expanse of diplomacy, and complete contempt of egalitarianism.

Support for an authoritarian/Totalitarian government where? As of the three nations that we are exposed to(not to mention, the GAA is the only totalitarian government in mahouka but everything bad that has happened so far has happened to them ), i'm not seeing words of praise being sent to any of these three nations and am getting the impression that all three are equally contemptible. Where is the favoritism?

Strong-arm diplomacy isn't just a right wing thing. It's pretty common no matter which party you support. And Mio was sent to the GAA to negotiate after Yokohama. No diplomacy? We even got events like Lina becoming doubtful of her own government after hearing that she should at least get a choice. There are plenty of events that goes against this "support for military over diplomacy". Even Tatsuya doesn't outright support the military and is only using the 101 to further his goals as a necessary evil but would immediately drop them the moment they are not useful to him.

I'm convinced the last one is a troll but lets go about it this way.
1) Main character's grouppie which consists of all the strongest characters in first high consists of both course 1 and course 2, 10mc + hundred families + families outside of both. Tatsuya and Miyuki's group goes beyond discrimination. Mayumi is even a proponent of egalitarianism with her proposal to remove the course 2 barrier from student council
2) tatsuya's goal to make magicians benefit society in non-military ways to allow them to be seen as more than just weapons is egalitarianism.
3) Powerful Women share prominent roles that powerful males have so people can't even say the author hates women.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Support for an authoritarian/Totalitarian government where? As of the three nations that we are exposed to(not to mention, the GAA is the only totalitarian government in mahouka but everything bad that has happened so far has happened to them ), i'm not seeing words of praise being sent to any of these three nations and am getting the impression that all three are equally contemptible. Where is the favoritism?

They're all three of them very authoritarian with regards to their magicians. And it's treated like a good thing. Like the only choice. When one magician (for the Thesis thing) tried to break free of some of it, of course it's because he was brainwashed by an enemy power. (Which makes me think - there was also support for short-term engineering research at the expense of fundamental research.)

And the explanation of Japan's strength is how quickly its magicians submitted to central authority when it came to marriage and children.

Of course, it's not outright dictature, I didn't say that. But there is the belief, not written in so many words but as an underlying assumption, that such... to use a flattering word, discipline... is not only better but the only choice.

Strong-arm diplomacy isn't just a right wing thing. It's pretty common no matter which party you support. And Mio was sent to the GAA to negotiate after Yokohama. No diplomacy? We even got events like Lina becoming doubtful of her own government after hearing that she should at least get a choice. There are plenty of events that goes against this "support for military over diplomacy". Even Tatsuya doesn't outright support the military and is only using the 101 to further his goals as a necessary evil but would immediately drop them the moment they are not useful to him.

It was written quite explicitly (though I don't remember when) that diplomacy had pissed away the military victory of three years ago. Because they're naive or possibly corrupt.

Granted, it's just one instance. But still, it adds to the tally that makes me think "right-wing, supporter of the military". (Especially added to the generally positive portrayal of the military.)

I'm convinced the last one is a troll but lets go about it this way.
1) Main character's grouppie which consists of all the strongest characters in first high consists of both course 1 and course 2, 10mc + hundred families + families outside of both. Tatsuya and Miyuki's group goes beyond discrimination.

That's really not the problem, though it probably says something that you think it does. Aristocrats and commoners (though pretty special commoners), mingling together? You think that's special?

Mayumi is even a proponent of egalitarianism with her proposal to remove the course 2 barrier from student council

Let me stop you right there. There are two issues:
- the course 2 protestors are morons. That's how they were written.
- they need an aristocrat to look after them. Also how it was written.

So, yes, Mayumi is kind. The writing still supports the idea that the aristocracy (hereditary and born out of personal power) should rule, and that people opposing that statu quo are stupid, and manipulated by foreign enemies.

2) tatsuya's goal to make magicians benefit society in non-military ways to allow them to be seen as more than just weapons is egalitarianism.

No, it's not. It's not practically unrelated.

There are two instances that smacked on contempt to me:
- the aforementioned Blanch incident.
- in vol 12, when Isori talked of people not liking that so many magicians went into the military. His portrayal of them immediately went into cartoonish supervillainy. They would mind-control all magicians! What. The. Fuck? What happened to alternate opportunities and simple incentives?

3) Powerful Women share prominent roles that powerful males have so people can't even say the author hates women.

That, at least, is true.

[renuac]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

They're all three of them very authoritarian with regards to their magicians. And it's treated like a good thing. Like the only choice. When one magician (for the Thesis thing) tried to break free of some of it, of course it's because he was brainwashed by an enemy power. (Which makes me think - there was also support for short-term engineering research at the expense of fundamental research.)

Yes, they are and no, it’s not. The characters we know and are supposed to sympathise with treat it like the reality it is, not like something inherently good. Non-magicians that view magicians as tools or cyborg-like creations that exist to protect humans (implying that magicians are not even human) are consistently portrayed negatively. The narration talks about magician-breeding programmes that it then likens to government-sanctioned rape. This is not a positive comparison. We hear about the results of genetic manipulation programmes whose products die young, go insane or are conditioned into emotional dependency. None of this is treated positively.

On the flip side, you’re quite right and Japan does owe its position and its continued independence to having been able to efficiently breed super-magicians. So yes, the consequences of those programmes (becoming sufficiently strong to remain independent) are treated as something positive. The means on the other hand are treated as something that was seen as a necessary evil. The very fact that so many characters want to change that perception, that they are trying to get magicians to be viewed as more than just tools contradicts the idea that magicians are all a-okay with being channelled into joining the military.

More than defending any particular political agenda, the author strikes me as depicting the situation quite factually.

[Lucarion]

Oh yeah, just throwing something out here again. But has anyone else noticed that Tatsuya shares a few similarities with Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFqPpaUj8-o

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

What about USNA and GAA? And why aren't the other Strategic Magicians doing anything to neutralize this possible threat to the peace situation? Somebody from GAA would have dealt with Tatsuya after nuking part of China, but GAA did nothing. I refuse to believe that the power among magicians is heavily tipped in favor of Japan. That would be totally unfair.

USNA is the strongest magic country because of their weaponry The researches labs and the number system made of Japan the country with the most gifted magicians. Even the strongest USNA magician has 10MC blood. GAA isn't a powerful magic country.The 10MC have huge influence and relations but the Yotsuba and the Saegusa even more. Maya informed Tatsuya that someone would spy them even though she is always in Japan. There are more than 50 SC magicians but only 13 are publicly acknowledged. Of course the country won't display their cards like that. And even if they are acknowledged it doesn't mean their identities are all known.

GAA could do nothing after Tatsuya's MB because they were the ones to blame, even at Okinawa. Besides, his clan would cover him, they have no proof, they don't even know his face. It's not as if they are in a complete war. USNA tried to know who was the user of MB for their researches, they sent spy and were willing to kill the user if necessary. The Yotsuba clan cornered and blackmailed. All of this is mostly behind the scenes.

The world is not fair even IRL .

[renuac]

I apologise for the overly-long winded answer to this. I just really love Mahouka’s politics

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

What about USNA and GAA? And why aren't the other Strategic Magicians doing anything to neutralize this possible threat to the peace situation? Somebody from GAA would have dealt with Tatsuya after nuking part of China, but GAA did nothing. I refuse to believe that the power among magicians is heavily tipped in favor of Japan. That would be totally unfair.

Because power balances are always so very fair

Under spoiler because of length:

Spoiler:

More seriously though: what threat to the peace situation? Japan responded to an attempted invasion and did not pursue the matter any further once the enemy troops had been dealt with. They have not shown any signs of wanting to attack anyone themselves. Yes, ‘Mahesvara’ has changed the power balance and other countries are probably very wary of Japan right now, but rushing in to do anything against them at this point would be unbelievably stupid. And while Tatsuya has changed the power balance, we don’t know enough about the weapons that the other countries have to be able to say for sure that he has broken it. Or that other countries think that it has been broken, which is far more important.

This is a global Cold War situation. No one is going to recklessly rush into anything, everyone is keeping part of their cards hidden, and if it is playing out like the original Cold War, shows of force of advanced technological prowess probably aren’t all that unheard of. What Tatsuya did was huge, but in the short-term, it won’t change the world. Better by far to develop counter-weapons and strategies than to risk Japan’s ire right now.

Strategic class magicians are used as deterrents and maybe as last resorts. They aren’t something you break out and launch at a powerful country without knowing what you are doing. Their role is not, as far as we know, to take down other strategic class magicians. What could they even do? Launch strategic magic at Japan? How would they even know which part to attack in order to be sure of taking down ‘Mahesvara’?

As for the two countries you mention, the USNA is described as very powerful in terms of its magical abilities with a large magical fighting force, advanced military magitech and not one but three acknowledged strategic class magicians. The USNA is a huge country with its own internal problems, an unstable South America as its nearest neighbour, and, in all likelihood, a large number of concerns in a large number of countries. Japan is not their only, or probably even their main, focus.

They are also allies of Japan and as such have no reason to outright attack it, if that’s what you want from them. They have however been known to work behind the scenes to weaken Japan, most notably when they tacitly agreed to stand by and do nothing as the GAA readied its troops to attack, and when they sent spies to uncover the identity of Japan’s unknown strategic class magician. Is a more powerful country trying to weaken an ally country ‘fair’? (Especially when that ally country has a very belligerent and pissed off neighbour.) Now I personally think the whole situation with sending Lina to Japan was contrived and really not Tsutomu’s strongest piece of writing, but the logic of sending spies to uncover information about Japan’s new weapon was absolutely sound.

And really, what else could they do? Nuke a country that has someone capable of annihilating entire armies when they know nothing of that person’s identity, whereabouts or abilities? Demand that Japan hand over their strongest weapon? That’s really not how power balances work.

The GAA is in a weaker position for a number of clearly-explained and perfectly coherent reasons.

1) During WW3, the area that is now covered by the GAA was apparently one of the hot-beds of actual fighting: they were involved in the first conflict of that war, the shape of the new map tells us that there must have been plenty of border disputes after that, and the last major conflict of the war was fought between Dahan and the GAA, on what is now GAA territory. As far as we now, no fighting took place on mainland Japan. Even if it did, it wouldn’t have been on the scale of what happened in the GAA. Twenty years of intermittent conflict can leave a mark on a country.

2) The GAA still relies on Ancient Magic, which is less efficient for warfare than the Modern Magic used by Japan or the USNA. The reason for that is that the research institutes dedicated to developing modern magic techniques were destroyed by the Yotsuba, along with the researchers within them. Not only was that a serious setback in itself, it is also having far-reaching repercussions since the GAA found itself short on people who could train new researchers and modern magicians. You can of course argue that the Yotsuba are ridiculously and terrifyingly powerful for just a single clan, but then that was the entire point of that short story. Besides which, they didn’t orchestrate the long-term weakening of the GAA for the sake of their country, that was just an indirect consequence that Japan benefited from.

3) The GAA was the clear aggressor, both in 2095 and during the Yokohama incident. They declared war (I forget if there was an actual formal declaration or not, but it doesn’t really matter here) and they got beaten. They wouldn’t have a leg to stand on if they wanted to demand, say, reparations from Japan - especially given that only their military personnel was targeted and killed. At this point, even if they still have the naval and air force to attack Japan, I doubt they have the will to do so.

4) it’s implied that the black Sage is pulling quite a few strings and as a survivor of Dahan, he is not likely to wish the GAA well (see Zhou Gongjin’s lack of attachment to the GAA).

So how do you suggest that the GAA ‘deal’ with Japan and Tatsuya? There are no legal or formal channels that they can use against Japan; given that they were technically hostile for three years before the Yokohama incident, I doubt there’s much in the way of economic relations between the two, so that’s out as a means of reprisal; and attempting something by force really hasn’t worked out for them these last two attempts.

As for Tatsuya, they don’t even know who ‘Mahesvara’ is. They might try and find out who he is. For all we know, GAA intelligence is hard at work doing just that. But for now, they are both limited in what they can do and probably still reeling from the scale of their defeat.

[Marcus H.]

The author really hates China for that to happen to GAA. I also find it weird that GAA would become the hotbed of WW3. Was it GAA's fault as the aggressor, the same way they did several years later in Yokohama and Okinawa?

And really, what else could they do? Nuke a country that has someone capable of annihilating entire armies when they know nothing of that person’s identity, whereabouts or abilities?

America already did that with Japan. It's not that hard. Just kidding. Anyway, if everyone is just waiting for someone else to make a move, then it's gonna be Tatsuya that's gonna make waves with his actions. But honestly, waiting for one person to do shit isn't really interesting to watch. It's like watching paint dry. I hope some spy, preferably from GAA, would lock on Tatsuya so that the real action can begin.

2) The GAA still relies on Ancient Magic, which is less efficient for warfare than the Modern Magic used by Japan or the USNA.

Why isn't Ancient Magic just as efficient as Modern Magic? Don't tell me that someone who can materialize energy as an attack through thousand-year-old martial arts techniques is inferior to someone who relies on a fancy gun to use magic. No, I don't think it works or should work that way.

So how do you suggest that the GAA ‘deal’ with Japan and Tatsuya? There are no legal or formal channels that they can use against Japan; given that they were technically hostile for three years before the Yokohama incident, I doubt there’s much in the way of economic relations between the two, so that’s out as a means of reprisal; and attempting something by force really hasn’t worked out for them these last two attempts.

GAA is driven in a corner in all of this. It's like you're asking me to tell a wounded chicken to cross the road in hopes that it could get across. I'd rather keep GAA on their toes, but I'd also prevent the other countries to find out that they are actually underpowered at the moment. It's also recommended for GAA to join the search for Mahesvara and any possible intel that they can use as bargaining chips for Japan or any country for that matter.

[renuac]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

The author really hates China for that to happen to GAA. I also find it weird that GAA would become the hotbed of WW3. Was it GAA's fault as the aggressor, the same way they did several years later in Yokohama and Okinawa?

I'm not getting into a debate about the author's opinion of other countries. Sorry, but I'm not. I will say however that it is perfectly believable for a large country with a large population and a lack of resources (in this case magical) to look to expand their territory at the expense of their neighbours, especially in a world of uneasy truce like Mahouka's appears to be. Rather than thinking of it in terms of "hating" a country or not, I see that as something that fits within the context of the story.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

America already did that with Japan. It's not that hard. Just kidding. Anyway, if everyone is just waiting for someone else to make a move, then it's gonna be Tatsuya that's gonna make waves with his actions. But honestly, waiting for one person to do shit isn't really interesting to watch. It's like watching paint dry. I hope some spy, preferably from GAA, would lock on Tatsuya so that the real action can begin.

Again, different strokes: I find it hugely interesting to watch. And you are missing the point that they aren't just sitting around doing nothing: we have seen spies being sent out - Lina was basically on a search and destroy mission. Zhou is looking for information. Other countries are probably also taking action, although that's pure speculation at the moment.

So you want a someone, anyone, to take the main character out of the picture so the series can have complete shift in tone and change into something it has never tried to be? If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Why isn't Ancient Magic just as efficient as Modern Magic? Don't tell me that someone who can materialize energy as an attack through thousand-year-old martial arts techniques is inferior to someone who relies on a fancy gun to use magic. No, I don't think it works or should work that way.

Really? Try pitting a martial artist against a gunman and see who wins. Or watch Indianna Jones' take on it.

Although I admit I'm hoping that in future volumes we get to see Ancient Magic used more.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

GAA is driven in a corner in all of this. It's like you're asking me to tell a wounded chicken to cross the road in hopes that it could get across. I'd rather keep GAA on their toes, but I'd also prevent the other countries to find out that they are actually underpowered at the moment. It's also recommended for GAA to join the search for Mahesvara and any possible intel that they can use as bargaining chips for Japan or any country for that matter.

I'm not denying it. The GAA's position is really not great. The decision to attack Japan made it worse but their current situation is the result of a large number of factors spanning decades of time, starting with the Earth's sudden cooling. The geopolitics in Mahouka are the way they are through no fault of any one country. And I'm sure the GAA agree with you about needing more intel on Mahesvara. I'm sure every country in the world agrees with you on that. The problem for them will be to succeed in gettting that information. It might still happen: remember that Mahouka is only about halfway through and that it hasn't been so long since the Yokohama incident alerted the world to the fact that Japan was hiding something very powerful and very unusual.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

The author really hates China for that to happen to GAA. I also find it weird that GAA would become the hotbed of WW3. Was it GAA's fault as the aggressor, the same way they did several years later in Yokohama and Okinawa?
Why isn't Ancient Magic just as efficient as Modern Magic? Don't tell me that someone who can materialize energy as an attack through thousand-year-old martial arts techniques is inferior to someone who relies on a fancy gun to use magic. No, I don't think it works or should work that way.

Who doesn't hate China right now from the asian region?

for ancient magic vs modern magic,Tatsuya explained it to Mikihiko,ancient magic is slower to activate compared to modern magic.

[My Zodiac Aries]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

The author really hates China for that to happen to GAA. I also find it weird that GAA would become the hotbed of WW3. Was it GAA's fault as the aggressor, the same way they did several years later in Yokohama and Okinawa?

It can't be help China is weaker than Japan. That's the fact.