Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero Anime General Discussion Thread

[Tenzen12]

That's terrible logic. I mean supporting system that will inevitably self-destruct in long term one actually, don't support it's destruction nor make it faster.

You are not wrong saying part of reason why slavery was abolished was economical. That's why if such person had money enough to buy and free slaves, he/she could use it on bolstering slave free economy (in USA it was thanks to industrialization for example) instead.

Edit: On second thought I think you are wrong altogether. Slavery was abolished not because it was inherently bad for economy. It was because it became obsolete. With rise of industrialization demand was for less numerous of more qualified manpower. Thus lesser demand for slaves.

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Before I drop my 2 cents, I am against slavery.

Now here I drop it. It seems that a lot in this topic seems to project the pre-American Civil War type of slavery, where basically the slaves are at the mercy of their masters' whims who have right of life and death over them. But there is other civilizations where being a slave is not as dire as their situation is. Roman civilization or those like the Ottomans are among those, or the Pre-French Revolution French colonies of the Carribeans when Le Code Noir have been implemented. They have some rights, masters cant kill them as they please, those slaves even have the possibility to be freed, enjoy social ascension. In the case of the French colonies from before the Revolution, slaves were allowed to rest on Sundays and holidays, can marry and their masters have had the obligation to feed them and dress them.

What I mean is that , from the first episode, anime-only viewers have literally NO way to know what are the status of slaves, AND semi-humans, what they can and cannot, and what a noble or a free man of the kingdom can do to a slave or a semi-human. Especially a semi-human who is a slave or is not.

You are right, we don't know the details, but with the slaves being kept in cages and magically compelled to obey their owner I'm inclined to think this isn't a "soft" kind of slavery.

[CrowKenobi]

Perhaps it might be in everyone's best interest if we move on from this circular slavery discussion....

[Go0gleplex]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Perhaps it might be in everyone's best interest if we move on from this circular slavery discussion....

AMEN!

Using modern values to judge a feudal era setting is erroneous to begin with anyhow. You don't like the subject matter...move on to some other story.

[Tenzen12]

I don't mind moving on, but to be honest, unlike many other "discussions" I found this one quite productive. I also don't think values of Tate Yuusha is all different from our world. I am not completely sure, but I believe slavery is actually illegal in that country btw.

[RDNexus]

Now I really have to say it... Please wait a few more episodes. I mean it

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Go0gleplex

AMEN!

Using modern values to judge a feudal era setting is erroneous to begin with anyhow. You don't like the subject matter...move on to some other story.

I think most people are using modern values to judge a modern person which is fair I think.

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I also don't think values of Tate Yuusha is all different from our world. I am not completely sure, but I believe slavery is actually illegal in that country btw.

Cmon, dude setup his slave pen inside a giant circus right in the middle of the town.

[Tenzen12]

Yes, he did. Your point?

[felix]

Originally Posted by Keila

At the risk of being spoilery (and possibly upsetting a few people from using a real life example), is there any fundamentally differences between 'slavery' and 'military conscription'?

Both 'slaves' and 'conscripts' (as per a general understanding without getting into specific example cases)

○ Are forced to serve a 'person of authority' and do not have 'freedom' to do as they please (must obey commands, do as they are told, else, consequences)
○ Are (generally) unable to refuse instructions of said authority (can't exactly 'reject' a suicide mission, assuming they have the foresight to realise they're being sent to their deaths)
○ etc.

Ok you got me there. And on point to the series no less.

I obviously can say plenty of differences. For one you can rise up in rank, there's also protocol that not just you but your "owner" adheres to. There's also a shared objective between everyone involved, such as protecting your country's interests. And the relationship is of a hierarchy is not quite he owns you, but a lot of the principles still apply.

But, for this particular show's circumstances, it's really hard to argue with the analogy (at least cant think of a problem with it at the moment). It's still plenty wrong ethically because she's just a little kid, but there's not much difference other then that I think. If we assume Naufumi's gone military protocol crazy then it all clicks together (in a silly way). It's by far the best excuse I've heard, that both avoids him being a creep (although he's half-psycho with it) and also opens up character development somewhat.

Hm. I'll have to think some more on this.

Note: He does have to adhere to military discipline (or at least be close to it) for this to continue to count. The moment it goes stupid it retroactively doesn't count anymore (which likely wont happen).

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I am reading manga too (tried novel, but it was terrible) and majority critics here on this board are legit.

You’re saying they’re right about Naofumi? (I’m talking about Naofumi, not slavery in general) Then you’re either not really reading the manga or you haven’t gotten to what I’m thinking of yet.

But either way I have no intention of getting sucked into the rebirth of this long-winded, pointless debate.

[Tenzen12]

But any critique for Naofumi character are mild at best. People here mostly take his situation in consideration. Yes, his paranoia makes him more dick and it also resulted in buying living person to take advantage of magic that make them obey. These are facts.

No matter how far I backtrack this thread it practically doesn't go beyond that. So yes they are right about Naofumi, if they say that.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Keila

At the risk of being spoilery (and possibly upsetting a few people from using a real life example), is there any fundamentally differences between 'slavery' and 'military conscription'?

Both 'slaves' and 'conscripts' (as per a general understanding without getting into specific example cases)

○ Are forced to serve a 'person of authority' and do not have 'freedom' to do as they please (must obey commands, do as they are told, else, consequences)
○ Are (generally) unable to refuse instructions of said authority (can't exactly 'reject' a suicide mission, assuming they have the foresight to realise they're being sent to their deaths)
○ etc.

Urgs, Ok...
A state's constitution doesn't only contain a citizens rights but also their responsibilities, such as participating in state defense. I.e. there is still a choice as the only thing said people would need to do is removing whatever is the base for requiring them to participate (usually it's citizenship).
In Austria you can choose between civil and military service, whereas I got to say that military service could be, under certain circumstances, actually be more beneficial.
A general benefit is that it only takes 6 moths while civil service still takes 8 or 9 months .

Long story short to a certain degree it's voluntary, moreover military superiors usually have responsibilities towards their soldiers too which I'm pretty sure is like that in every civilized country.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

But any critique for Naofumi character are mild at best. People here mostly take his situation in consideration. Yes, his paranoia makes him more dick and it also resulted in buying living person to take advantage of magic that make them obey. These are facts.

No matter how far I backtrack this thread it practically doesn't go beyond that. So yes they are right about Naofumi, if they say that.

Like I said, that means you either aren’t really reading the manga or you haven’t gotten to what I’m thinking of.

[Tenzen12]

I read so far all translated chapters which should be up to date with raws (I am also somehow aware of development beyond manga, even if I didn't read novel from spoilers). I of course don't have clue "what you were thinking of" as I am not mindreader, but I do know manga didn't disprove any critique presented here.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I read so far all translated chapters which should be up to date with raws. I of course don't have clue "what you were thinking of" as I am not mindreader, but I do know manga didn't disprove any critique presented here.

And what chapter is that? Because I can think of many things that disprove the criticism just in the first few volumes. (intentionally speaking broadly and inaccurately to not be spoiler-y)
Now this is straying too far towards the manga, and like I said I’m not getting sucked into a long-winded debate.

[Tenzen12]

Are you asking me which chapter didn't disprove these critiques? You wan't me prove a negative, which is school book fallacy. But ok I will list all chapters that didn't contained answer to it: 1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;10;11;12;13;14;15;16;17;18;19;20 ;21;22;23;24;25;26;27;28;29;30;31;32;33;34;35;36;3 7;38;39;40;41;42;43;44;45;46;47;48;49 and 50.

[Rasty]

Btw. leaving aside slavery in our world (that doesn't need much discussion), has anyone thought about what would happen with the demi-humans that are currently slaves if the demand dropped or the slavery got even abolished? Let's see, they have a bunch of hostile (and from their point of view inferior and evil) creatures they have to feed and make other expenses to "keep". Do you think they would build a nice home for them and find them a job, or do away with the expenses?

Speaking of metaphors, while the military one is nice, as for Raphtalia you can use an even better one and that is a marriage. It was not so unusual in middle age for a man to marry a girl as a child (and waiting for her to become adult before consuming the marriage, though what is adult depends on culture). In that case, he would have the right to do virtually anything to her (the same as to a slave), except for straight up killing her or leaving permanent disabilities (but there is no reason to do those to slaves too, as your property loses value this way and isn't necessarily allowed to do to slaves).

Though Naofumi is treating the people more like employees than anything else.

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Yes, he did. Your point?

My point is that if it were illegal then he surely wouldnt make it stand out like a sore thumb.

Now, maybe enslaving actual humans or citizens isnt alloweed, however that was clearly a demi-human slave trade.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Perhaps it might be in everyone's best interest if we move on from this circular slavery discussion....

I'd say that's a good idea, for the time being. The discussion's gone round in circles and not really moved much (and as is often the case I let myself go and helped keep it going, sorry). It's a subject where many people are firmly set in their opinions. At the least, it's ridiculous to make moral judgments on the guy about an act he's shown about to do and what he may or may not do afterward. I've said it before and I'll say it again, discussing things that haven't played out as if they have is not really fair to the story or author, and for those of us who've read and know more about it, it's not very fair to those that don't.