The Industry - Lifestyle and Wages

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

17% of the Japanese workforce is unionized, the same as in Germany. The US comes in at a measly 10%.

https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=TUD

you have to take into account how effective they are at their work, and how much they cover. Issues in Japan being, any of the new technology sector that develop within recent 10 years are hardly affected, the law isn't catching up to the speed of technology. There is also problem of their culture, high power distance and hiearchy based is a lot more pronounced in Asia

[AnimeFan188]

25 Anime Production Assistants Share Their Troubles in Anonymous Survey:

"Fan-run animation production information blog Sakuga Blog posted the results on
Tuesday of an anonymous survey it conducted with 25 anime production assistants.

Overtime Work

According to the survey, 96% of respondents worked overtime. 72% said they did it
"always." Only 20% said they don't work on weekends or public holidays. In addition,
76% had accumulated unpaid overtime work. 44% said they worked unpaid overtime
"occasionally," while 32% said they did it "always." The respondents spoke about how
they were expected to be on call, and one respondent said: "You can never go on a
vacation in case anything happens and you have to help out with other episodes too.”"

See:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...survey/.146299

[AnimeFan188]

How An Animator From Massachusetts Worked On Sword Art Online:

"In an interview with The Indonesian Anime Times, animator Ida Badus Yoga (aka
guzzu) spoke about how he's trying to move away from anime projects due to their
unsustainability. guzzu has worked on Boruto, To Be Heroine and Castlevania, and
states that the overwork, not having time to sleep, and the small salary prompted his
decision to stop contributing to Japanese anime, instead deciding to work on Western
projects.

Kay agrees that working in Japanese anime isn't sustainable, and mentioned that it
was the experience of working on Sword Art Online that was the motivation for taking
the job, rather than the pay. Because he works a full-time job at WayForward, he
struggled to find the time to work on the show, leading to a work-life balance that he
says is unhealthy. Kay has also recently been approached with more anime offers, to
which he admits will end up cutting further into his sleep.

In discussions of anime budgeting, it's often surprising to learn that the quality of the
animation rarely has anything to do with how much animators are being paid. In
truth, there really are few incentives to bother to create great work in anime. But Kay
was very clear that, despite the low pay, his goal is to continue to grow as an
animator. He pushes into his sleep schedule and intentionally overperforms to stretch
his limits. He compares himself to Goku from Dragon Ball Z and his never-ending
quest to find out how much stronger he can possibly get, and judging from Kay's
growth as an animator in just the last few years, it feels like an accurate description."

See:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/fea...online/.157487

[Marcus H.]

Nikkei Editorial Predicts Gloomy Times Ahead for Japanese Anime Industry as China Puts Focus on Domestic Animation:

"Japanese financial newspaper Nikkei posted an editorial on its online site on Tuesday discussing the effects of China's recent pivot to its domestic animation industry. Although China was the country with the most contracts with the Japanese animation industry in 2016, the Nikkei article argued that China has been retreating from the Japanese industry since 2018 due to tightening government restrictions on streaming anime, among other factors. (In 2018, China had 121 contracts, making it 6th after the United States, South Korea, Taiwan, France, and Canada.) This state of affairs has been exacerbating the problems in the declining Japanese industry and reinforcing the stark wealth differences between Japanese and Chinese animators."

See:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...mation/.157955

[AnimeFan188]

In-Between Animators Share Stories of Low Wages, Poor Conditions With
'Dōgaman Hell' Hashtag:

"In-between animators are the people who draw the connecting frames between each
key pose you'll see in an anime. Despite the importance of their work, they're among
the lowest paid workers in the industry. According to a 2019 survey by the Japan
Animation Creators Association (JAniCA), the mean average yearly income across for in-
between animators is only 1,250,000 yen (US$11,400), which is significantly lower than
the 4,410,000 yen (US$40,000) industry average.

Animators recently took to Twitter with the #動画マン地獄篇 (Dōgaman Hell) hashtag to
share some of their wage-related related woes. Both anonymous animators and
established animators participated in the hashtag, sharing what they earned with their
first in-between animation jobs. A selection of tweets are listed below:"

See:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...ashtag/.160697

[SeijiSensei]

Seiyuu reports a "casting couch" event at Sunrise

She told an interviewer that she was asked to perform "sexual favors" during a casting interview. She refused and was not offered the job.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...unrise/.160702

#MeToo

[TinyRedLeaf]

In the stream, [Yurina Hase] also gave advice to "watch out for the male voice actors". She said that the newcomer male actors tend to let the attention go to their heads, and immediately try to lay their hands on the female actors.

^ This revelation stood out for me, given the number of notable marriages and relationships between male and female voice actors in the industry. Clearly, not every liaison is abusive, but I'm not surprised to learn that there is also a dark side to the industry.

[0cean]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

In-Between Animators Share Stories of Low Wages, Poor Conditions With
'Dōgaman Hell' Hashtag:

I don't really get the complaint. If you don't make as much money as you want, just quit your job and go to someone that pays better. If you can't find anyone that pays better, you're not worth more. If you prefer to make more money, just switch careers. If you can't, that's your own problem.

Nobody is owed "fair" wages.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by 0cean

I don't really get the complaint. If you don't make as much money as you want, just quit your job and go to someone that pays better. If you can't find anyone that pays better, you're not worth more. If you prefer to make more money, just switch careers. If you can't, that's your own problem.

Nobody is owed "fair" wages.

As someone who values and appreciates anime, we should push the industry to do more to support the actual artists that create it. There's a reason why governments have minimum wage laws, but the anime industry gets around this by paying by the "cut" instead of for time, using the excuse that "good artists" can go that fast (which encourages corner-cutting and poor quality). Since a lot of anime work is in the Tokyo area, they can't pay people the same rates as they'd pay in other countries with a much lower cost of living and still expect to retain/nurture quality talent. All in all, the industry has some really detrimental practices, and your attitude of "if they don't like it, they can just quit" isn't solving any of them.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I am not a supporter of minimum-wage policy. It's a politically expedient measure to appease workers and unions, but it doesn't address the structural labour-market issues that cause the problem of poor pay in the first place and, as such, a minimum-wage policy is rarely a sustainable long-term solution.

It should be remembered that in-between animation work doesn't actually has to be done in Japan, much less in Tokyo, where the cost of production is so much higher, due to the higher overall cost of living. Imposing a minimum wage on animation studios will have two eventual outcomes: Either the studios close shop because they can no longer sustain the labour cost (most studios are already operating at razor-thin margins, from what I understand), or they outsource the job to cheaper labour elsewhere in the region. In fact, many studios already farm out work to artists in South Korea, China and the Philippines.

The longer-term solutions, I feel, would be for studios in Japan to consolidate and negotiate better terms in production committees (a very long shot). Failing that, studios increasingly have further options of producing for streaming platforms such as Netflix, an option that comes with its own risks, but provides potentially better revenue security (which hopefully translates to better pay).

But these are just the opinions of an outsider who knows only very little of how the industry works. But given that progressive studios like Kyoto Animation have managed to not just survive but also thrive, despite its relatively low output per year, it'll be worthwhile to use it as a case study of how animation studios in Japan can create a sustainable business that does not exploit its workers.

I'd be more inclined to read such case studies, if they exist, rather than talk in generalities about what needs to be done to help animators in Japan.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Seiyuu reports a "casting couch" event at Sunrise

She told an interviewer that she was asked to perform "sexual favors" during a casting interview. She refused and was not offered the job.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...unrise/.160702

#MeToo

This reminds me of a controversy I read about involving Yukana back when she was cast as Four Murasame for those Zeta Gundam movies. There was speculation that she got the role instead of Four's original seiyuu because she was sleeping with the producer.

Not that any of that has any actual basis in fact, and I in no way meant this as a slight on Yukana's character, it's just what this story reminded me of and that this kind of skeevy hiring practice for Sunrise might not be very recent.

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I am not a supporter of minimum-wage policy. It's a politically expedient measure to appease workers and unions, but it doesn't address the structural labour-market issues that cause the problem of poor pay in the first place and, as such, a minimum-wage policy is rarely a sustainable long-term solution.

It should be remembered that in-between animation work doesn't actually has to be done in Japan, much less in Tokyo, where the cost of production is so much higher, due to the higher overall cost of living. Imposing a minimum wage on animation studios will have two eventual outcomes: Either the studios close shop because they can no longer sustain the labour cost (most studios are already operating at razor-thin margins, from what I understand), or they outsource the job to cheaper labour elsewhere in the region. In fact, many studios already farm out work to artists in South Korea, China and the Philippines.

The longer-term solutions, I feel, would be for studios in Japan to consolidate and negotiate better terms in production committees (a very long shot). Failing that, studios increasingly have further options of producing for streaming platforms such as Netflix, an option that comes with its own risks, but provides potentially better revenue security (which hopefully translates to better pay).

But these are just the opinions of an outsider who knows only very little of how the industry works. But given that progressive studios like Kyoto Animation have managed to not just survive but also thrive, despite its relatively low output per year, it'll be worthwhile to use it as a case study of how animation studios in Japan can create a sustainable business that does not exploit its workers.

I'd be more inclined to read such case studies, if they exist, rather than talk in generalities about what needs to be done to help animators in Japan.

Not sure about Phillipines, but, despite the common believe, outsourcing work to China/South Korea costs even more than hiring local animators. It is done mainly not to spare money but because studios do not have enough staff to make the work done.

Moving outside of the Tokyo may be a decent solution, but I only see one good exmple of this working (KyoAni). Even Touyama-based P.A.Works have their production department in Tokyo. I presume, it makes the negotiations with producers, sponsors, etc. more complicated+despite higher living standards, it is hard to find enough decent staff outside of Tokyo.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by 0cean

If you prefer to make more money, just switch careers. .

That's how many things die out and no one cares until they realize they are missing, now want that thing/service and no one's around to do it. Makes sense for the individual but as a whole, it's actually a loss

[MeoTwister5]

Outsourcing animation isn't always going to help cut corners in order for a series to succeed.

In fact, the most infamous case of a western animated show imploding on itself due to outsourcing was that season of the original X-men animated series being done by some Philippine animation studio. This debacle led to the death of that series.

I didn't even know we HAD an animation studio in the 90s here.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I feel the fundamental thing to grasp is that in any media industry, intellectual property is key.

Animation studios in Japan suffer what they must, because at the end of the day, they don't own the IP of the source material. That mostly belongs to the publishers of manga and young-adult novels. Neither do the studios own the broadcast platforms, be it TV, cable, satellite or online streaming.

That ultimately means they have no leverage at the negotiating table. The studios depend on the publishers to decide who to "commission". And the studios don't have very much say either over how the show gets released. I'd imagine that's more of a discussion between the publisher and the broadcaster. If the studios don't like the terms, they could walk away from the table, but that means no work for them, and no revenue. And that's the end of business, full-stop.

This is the reason why studios like Production I.G invest in their own IPs (eg, Blood the Last Vampire, anime versions of Ghost in the Shell, etc, in the case of I.G). Ownership of the IP also means that the studio can try to capitalise on merchandising and other products, bringing in alternative streams of income.

Similarly, KyoAni has its own system of fostering young promising writers and mangaka and, in exchange, it gets first dibs on adapting original material.

So, it remains to be seen if future partnerships between studios and streaming platforms like Netflix would open doors to the creation of IPs that studios can capitalise for future productions.

There's an issue, though, of the contractual terms between studios and Netflix, and I'm still not clear about whether Netflix gets to own everything. There was a recent article about the risks of working with the streaming platform, creating a paradoxical situation where it's actually more worthwhile for the studio to hand over a dud to Netflix than to produce a lucrative hit.

It basically boils down to the fact that the terms don't allow the studios to earn royalties from the viewership streams. The contract often involves Netflix paying a substantial lump sum at the outset, and that's it. In effect, Netflix is taking on all the risk of production. It's behaving like a venture capitalist, investing in a slew of programmes. Many of them may turn out to be duds that no one would watch more than once. But all it needs is one big hit to draw in repeat, subscription-paying viewers, and Netflix will eventually recoup its total investment, with profit to spare.

The studios, for their part, have very little idea of what is a fair price to charge for their services, because Netflix does not reveal viewership numbers. This effectively means the studios don't know if they are selling themselves short. As a studio, I would want to high-ball my fee as much as possible, without pricing myself out of competition. But without transparent information on viewership numbers, I can only rely on guesstimates. Not an ideal situation, and I would like to know more about why Netflix is allegedly pursuing such an exploitative relationship.

Unfortunately, I see very few journalists following up on this story. Make that practically none -- there aren't any real journalists working in this field after all.

[0cean]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

As someone who values and appreciates anime, we should push the industry to do more to support the actual artists that create it.

I don't understand why we should do such a thing. Studios generally aren't the ones calling the shots, they just get paid to deliver. There's no point in improving their conditions, since they already deliver decent products under the current conditions.

And watching anime that had basically unlimited budget just confirms for me, that anime with budget constraints are much better. So there is no incentive to improve conditions for any party involved.

In my line of work, there's a saying for this: never touch a running system.


There's nothing to win and everything to lose and the people involved themselves don't do anything, so why should we bother?

[Sheba]

Its reassuring to know that corporate executives will enjoy fat dosh on the back of the small hands till the system implodes, because of apathetic people drunk on Randian kool-aid.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Its reassuring to know that corporate executives will enjoy fat dosh on the back of the small hands till the system implodes, because of apathetic people drunk on Randian kool-aid.

It's a bizarrely utilitarian way of thinking I'll never understand. Animators just cogs in the dakimakura selling wheel.

Kinda like how medical personal have been treated a lot in the last 5 months, applause none-withstanding, but I digress.

[Dextro]

Just chiming in to plug the animator dormitory project btw. It's a non-profit that's trying to do what they can to help out with the low wage issue and they have some pretty decent youtube videos talking about the problem, the steps that have been attempted in the past and what they are trying now. It's rather interesting.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/3TLLZfeF8WU

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

It's also a small way we can help out from overseas since they do depend on donations to keep the dormitory working.

I can't say I'm particularly bullish on their plan of trying to use high quality AMVs as a way to get a more fair production system going sounds unambitious... but maybe it just might work, who knows?

[0cean]

People on the production committees are mostly the ones deciding if money is used to make new anime. As long as it's profitable for them to do this, the anime industry will continue to exist.

Keeping the wages of replaceable workers low is just common sense. It's like this everywhere. When any one of you goes out shopping, you probably keep the price of things in mind and if you can get a comparable product for the fraction of the price, most people will go for the cheaper product. This is normal. Everyone has to look out for themselves.

If you don't like it, you can always give away your own money. But if you want other people to spend their money on the things you think are important than that's just wishful thinking. Spending money other people have earned is unfair.