Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Q&A/Discussion about Magic & Technology

[tigerdave]

Originally Posted by somerand

Material burst can't be used on a battlefield.... On any battlefield or in any one on one fight Miyuki/Lina are at least in the same league as him.

Are Lina or Miyuki going to be able to hit him when he's on a different continent while he's blowing up their continent? Frankly, even on the same battlefield Lina needed a mythical weapon and favorable conditions to do any damage to Tatsuya. In ten battles one on one she might win three; she just doesn't have the intellect and resourcefulness to hang with Tatsuya even if their abilities on the same battlefield are closer to equal. I'm not saying she's dumb, she's just not up to par with Tatsuya based on every time they fought each other. Miyuki might put up a better fight considering she bested Lina, but she also doesn't have the smarts of Tatsuya. To have a shot of winning even 50% of the time they'd need to be on a battlefield with no obstructions, in situations where they can see Tatsuya, or at least know where he is. Most battlefields aren't like that anymore, armies don't line up in open fields and march at each other. If you put Tatsuya in one part of a village and Lina/Miyuki in another, Tatsuya would use elemental sight and snipe them immediately.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by tigerdave

Are Lina or Miyuki going to be able to hit him when he's on a different continent while he's blowing up their continent? Frankly, even on the same battlefield Lina needed a mythical weapon and favorable conditions to do any damage to Tatsuya. In ten battles one on one she might win three; she just doesn't have the intellect and resourcefulness to hang with Tatsuya even if their abilities on the same battlefield are closer to equal. I'm not saying she's dumb, she's just not up to par with Tatsuya based on every time they fought each other. Miyuki might put up a better fight considering she bested Lina, but she also doesn't have the smarts of Tatsuya. To have a shot of winning even 50% of the time they'd need to be on a battlefield with no obstructions, in situations where they can see Tatsuya, or at least know where he is. Most battlefields aren't like that anymore, armies don't line up in open fields and march at each other. If you put Tatsuya in one part of a village and Lina/Miyuki in another, Tatsuya would use elemental sight and snipe them immediately.

If he attacks from another continent it is not a fight but assassination, SC magic is not something you can use in a fight. Lina is already top tiers without Brionac her problem was her dumbness. Miyuki proved that she is using her brain when fighting several times already.

[tigerdave]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

If he attacks from another continent it is not a fight but assassination, SC magic is not something you can use in a fight. Lina is already top tiers without Brionac her problem was her dumbness. Miyuki proved that she is using her brain when fighting several times already.

Yes, Lina was outsmarted repeatedly when facing Tatsuya. Does that not count for something? I don't mean to insinuate that Miyuki or Lina are not smart, but I don't think they're at Tatsuya's level, which can easily be the difference between life and death. On a modern day battlefield, where armies face off in terrain filled with obstructions, would Lina or Miyuki have a shot even half the time? They'd need to know Tatsuya's location to have a shot, whereas to Tatsuya they will always be sitting ducks, no matter the conditions. The conditions would have to be tilted in Lina or Miyuki's favor, such as having intel on where Tatsuya is/might be located or have other support to keep Tatsuya occupied while they attack, and even that might not be enough. In equal conditions on a modern day battlefield, Tatsuya wins easily.

[somerand]

Originally Posted by tigerdave

Are Lina or Miyuki going to be able to hit him when he's on a different continent while he's blowing up their continent? Frankly, even on the same battlefield Lina needed a mythical weapon and favorable conditions to do any damage to Tatsuya. In ten battles one on one she might win three; she just doesn't have the intellect and resourcefulness to hang with Tatsuya even if their abilities on the same battlefield are closer to equal. I'm not saying she's dumb, she's just not up to par with Tatsuya based on every time they fought each other. Miyuki might put up a better fight considering she bested Lina, but she also doesn't have the smarts of Tatsuya. To have a shot of winning even 50% of the time they'd need to be on a battlefield with no obstructions, in situations where they can see Tatsuya, or at least know where he is. Most battlefields aren't like that anymore, armies don't line up in open fields and march at each other. If you put Tatsuya in one part of a village and Lina/Miyuki in another, Tatsuya would use elemental sight and snipe them immediately.

Don't nit pick with ridiculous claims like "blowing up continents" while on the other side of the planet. This will never happen. Besides that has nothing to do with what I said originally. I said that on a battle field or in a one on one fight they would be in the same league, which is true. I didn't say anything about who is more valuable or destructive, I simply said they are in the same league "on a battlefield or in a one on one fight". Miyuki possesses large scale AOE magic while Tatsuya can only target 20 something people at most, she also possesses much better defence capabilities which make her just as useful on a battlefield. As far as Lina goes you just said yourself that you believe she would beat him 3 times out of ten, clearly that's acknowledging them as being in the same league even if you believe Tatsuya to be stronger overall..... (Not saying that I agree with 3/10)

This is the definition of a fight- " take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons. "

In a fight they are in the same league as him. Tatsuya attacking from a distance isn't a fight and he can't just snipe through Lina's parade as he wants to anyway. Another key point is that going into the information dimension to attack over long distances on a battle field leaves him completely vulnerable in the physical world. In the scenario you outlined on a battlefield going into the information dimension to snipe obviously isn't a good idea.

[Iramohs]

Really? Aside from Maya, Miyuki and maybe Juumonji, who is tats tier?

I would place Masaki, Miyuki, Lina, Juumonji, Yakumo, Maya and Minoru in Tatsuya's tier in terms of S-rank combat prowess. I'm not going to delve into 1v1 matchups because we'd get into a long ass pointless debate over who's stronger than who, which is not what I intended.

[tigerdave]

Originally Posted by somerand

Don't nit pick with ridiculous claims like "blowing up continents" while on the other side of the planet. This will never happen. Besides that has nothing to do with what I said originally. I said that on a battle field or in a one on one fight they would be in the same league, which is true. I didn't say anything about who is more valuable or destructive, I simply said they are in the same league "on a battlefield or in a one on one fight". Miyuki possesses large scale AOE magic while Tatsuya can only target 20 something people at most, she also possesses much better defence capabilities which make her just as useful on a battlefield. As far as Lina goes you just said yourself that you believe she would beat him 3 times out of ten, clearly that's acknowledging them as being in the same league even if you believe Tatsuya to be stronger overall..... (Not saying that I agree with 3/10)

This is the definition of a fight- " take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons. "

In a fight they are in the same league as him. Tatsuya attacking from a distance isn't a fight and he can't just snipe through Lina's parade as he wants to anyway. Another key point is that going into the information dimension to attack over long distances on a battle field leaves him completely vulnerable in the physical world. In the scenario you outlined on a battlefield going into the information dimension to snipe obviously isn't a good idea.

1) We're talking about a fight to the death with Miyuki, which will also never happen. Besides, with Tatsuya's abilities there is more options than a traditional battlefield or close range. If Lina can't compete with Tatsuya's long range capabilities, then we should acknowledge that.
2) The original point being discussed was talking about who was strongest, not would win a one-on-one fight. Go back further in the thread.
3) Can Miyuki's AOE magic stop Tatsuya's decomposition? To my knowledge, it can't but I might be wrong. If so, please correct me.
4) In this one-on-one faceoff between Miyuki and Tatsuya, does he need to target 20 people or just her? Are we still discussing a fight between the two or are we talking about how they'd do against others? Otherwise, I don't see how her defense capabilities matter if she can't stop Tatsuya's magic.
5) If you consider a 30% success rate to be in the same league as a 70% success rate, then I'll just have to disagree. If we're talking 40/60, I'd find that easier to swallow. Of course, I don't know what you consider their odds to be.
6) That definition is more in line with the civilian world. Obviously combat now involves long-range fights. Are snipers not soldiers?
7) So in this scenario where he is covered (otherwise why would he take the time to use elemental sight instead of finding cover), you think it'd be a bad idea to use elemental sight? Besides, it doesn't take long for him to use elemental sight. I can't think of an example where it's even taken him a couple of minutes to locate a person using elemental sight, outside of when he uses Material Burst. If I'm forgetting something, please let me know. If neither party knows where the other is, meaning the conditions started out equally, then he should be able to locate her before she can find him. Again, he has already broken her Parade using Yakumo's training.

[nani895]

Originally Posted by Iramohs

I would place Masaki, Miyuki, Lina, Juumonji, Yakumo, Maya and Minoru in Tatsuya's tier in terms of S-rank combat prowess. I'm not going to delve into 1v1 matchups because we'd get into a long ass pointless debate over who's stronger than who, which is not what I intended.

Yes it is true that if you consider raw power they all are on the same level as tats(almost). Magic versatility is way higher that what Tatsuya has or will ever have.
On a one-on -one battle every one of them has advantage on their side from the beginning.
But Tatsuya make up for them with superior intellect. No one in the series can match his intellect on battle field except for Kazama, Restsu, Yakumo and few other well older people who lived in battle era and had more experience than him.However I don't see any of them standing against Tatsuya except for Maya and also in a one-on-one battle even with advantage on their side they have to work hard to take down Tatsuya and some can only go against him when he doesn't have trident. (Originally decomposition of Tatsuya is not as powerful as it is with the help of 'Trident'. Decomposition need to take out 1. Natural Anti Magic barrier of body 2. Flesh and Liquids of body 3. Bones and muscle. All the 3 are achieved in single shot due to loop-cast system of Trident).

As of right now Miyuki, Mayumi, Minrou, Masaki and Lina don't stand a chance against Tatsuya unless conditions are extremely favorable to them. Jumonji might have a chance only because his Phalanx is natural counter to decomposition(according to light novels)

Unless we don't see a character with intellect to match Tatsuya's I don't think he can ever be defeated.

[somerand]

Originally Posted by nani895

Yes it is true that if you consider raw power they all are on the same level as tats(almost). Magic versatility is way higher that what Tatsuya has or will ever have.
On a one-on -one battle every one of them has advantage on their side from the beginning.
But Tatsuya make up for them with superior intellect. No one in the series can match his intellect on battle field except for Kazama, Restsu, Yakumo and few other well older people who lived in battle era and had more experience than him.However I don't see any of them standing against Tatsuya except for Maya and also in a one-on-one battle even with advantage on their side they have to work hard to take down Tatsuya and some can only go against him when he doesn't have trident. (Originally decomposition of Tatsuya is not as powerful as it is with the help of 'Trident'. Decomposition need to take out 1. Natural Anti Magic barrier of body 2. Flesh and Liquids of body 3. Bones and muscle. All the 3 are achieved in single shot due to loop-cast system of Trident).

As of right now Miyuki, Mayumi, Minrou, Masaki and Lina don't stand a chance against Tatsuya unless conditions are extremely favorable to them. Jumonji might have a chance only because his Phalanx is natural counter to decomposition(according to light novels)

Unless we don't see a character with intellect to match Tatsuya's I don't think he can ever be defeated.

"Don't stand a chance", firstly Tatsuya has been shown to have difficulties targeting through parade and it has been out right stated Minoru's parade is superior to that of Lina's. Obviously they aren't going to be taken out by decomposition easily, it was also straight out stated that Lina might have beaten him if serious. We have no idea how a Miyuki vs Tatsuya fight would go. It would likely come down to a Cocytus vs Decomposition speed competition, I'd favour Tatsuya's speed but it's still simply fact that we don't know who has the faster innate ability and Cocytus could definitely kill him. Katsuo would put up a fight for obvious reasons stated in the novel. Out of all the people you listed Mayumi/Masaki are the only two that "wouldn't stand a chance" as you put it.

Lina without a doubt stands a good chance in a serious fight.

[vicky96]

Well I just wanna say
Fight against lina,minoru,jumanji,kazama....etc
-
If tatsuya goes totally in a serious mood with full intention of annihilation (with all his might and fully armed)......
Dou you think they stand a chance.....??.
You can guess what will be the outcome....??

[Ultragunner]

sign..... geezz guys, this isn't DBZ , imagine a person with a small pistol vs another with a rifle (or a cannon) , the one with the rifle (or cannon) will have more firepower but they all can one-shot each other.

Tatsuya has the advantage of self-generated, but the outcome of his battles vs the one mentioned really depend on chances and circumstances

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by somerand

"Don't stand a chance", firstly Tatsuya has been shown to have difficulties targeting through parade and it has been out right stated Minoru's parade is superior to that of Lina's. Obviously they aren't going to be taken out by decomposition easily, it was also straight out stated that Lina might have beaten him if serious. We have no idea how a Miyuki vs Tatsuya fight would go. It would likely come down to a Cocytus vs Decomposition speed competition, I'd favour Tatsuya's speed but it's still simply fact that we don't know who has the faster innate ability and Cocytus could definitely kill him. Katsuo would put up a fight for obvious reasons stated in the novel. Out of all the people you listed Mayumi/Masaki are the only two that "wouldn't stand a chance" as you put it.

Lina without a doubt stands a good chance in a serious fight.

My opinion is the same as Iramohs on that matter but let's not fool ourselves, even if a Tatsuya VS Miyuki would be extremely difficult for him, he is stronger than her. The story would not work if he was not. And he is definitely faster, there is not much of a difference when using MI magic without a CAD but it still has its use. Not only his Tatsuya using his specialized magic but he has a special CAD for this as well, Miyuki uses Cocytus without a CAD and she is slower than Lina. Miyuki's style doesn't revolve on high speed to begin with, she uses her AOE ice magics and tries to take control while defending herself with Zone Interference. We know it's powerful enough to contain even Tatsuya. Among the young magicians I consider only Katsuto and Masaki as stronger than Miyuki, Minoru seems to be stronger as well based on spoilers. Yakumo is most likely the only adult besides Maya who is stronger than her so far.

[Clutchdog]

I think that's overrating Katsuto, Masaki and Minoru. Cocytus is a matchup nightmare, and it's AoE. And it's faster than anything they can use.

[Kokus]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

Hi guys. Due to busy schedule, I was away from the forum.
Vol.15 was fully translated in Korean seven hours ago.
I need to finish some PPT and send it to my boss. And, I need some rest, but once I am awake, I will make a summary in English and post them as much as possible over the weekend.

For now, I will provide a bullet point summary and provide more detailed summary, later.

Spoiler for Short Key summary:

Tatsuya
- Elemental Sight can allow Tatsuya to see "root" of one person. He found out everything about Minoru, but it is harder than simply looking at the surface of a person.
- With elemental sight, Tatsuya found out, Kyouko and Minoru are siblings. Not only that, he found out they have the same father but have different mother.
- Tatsuya was not sure whether incest was the main reason behind Minoru's condition. According to Tatsuya, they have no idea how incest can affect one's emotion or physical conditions because it was taboo to produce children between family members even for magicians. And, Miyuki was shocked like it was her own situation.

Erika
- It was discovered during the conversation that, Erika is learning Chado, Japanese Tea Ceremony.

Minami
- Yes, it is final. Minami is attracted to Minoru.

Mayumi

- Mayumi tried to put card key between her cleavage, but Tatsuya stopped her.

- Mayumi requested Tatsuya to take off her cloth after Tatsuya suggested her to sleep on the bad after undressing herself because if she slept with the dress, the dress may get wrinkles. Then, Mayumi asked Tatsuya to take off her cloth.

- I will tell other interesting stuff in detailed summary.

Minoru
- Based on the battle with Zhou, Zhou was no match against him even though Zhou managed to run from Minoru.
- Zhou's magic (Magical beast) cannot harm Minoru because of his parade. Zhou realized, he cannot break Minoru's Parade, and he decide to avoid fighting Minoru and run.
- During the battle, Minoru is shown as heartless, and when he cast magic, he does not consider his surroundings and bystanders (fortunately, nobody was nearby). And, Minoru was scary enough to make Zhou to feel chills.

Zhou
- Zhou's age is unknown. Vol. 15 only says, he lived in Chinatown for last 10 years. Before arriving in Chinatown, he was on the run for 30 years. On the official fake document, he is recorded as 24 years old because when he bought the store in Chinatown 4 years ago, he needed the document, so he purchased the fake document that says 20 years old.

Yotsuba
- I will add this in detail later, but I will conclude in short version for now.
- Testing loyalty was only partial for branch leaders. The most important thing was his ability.
- Overall, they accept his capabilities. Shizuka's comment was interesting. Shizuka requested postponing the decision because impartially, Tatsuya' talents are not diversified, so Shizuka assumes, it is may too fast to make the decision.

First, Tatsuya's ES rules!!!!! And, Tatsuya and Miyuki have to be siblings at this point unless Miyuki is a clone of Tatsuya's real sister, but I even feel like, Tatsuya can distinguish between original and clones at this point. Anyway, I think, Maya is only telling Tatsuya, "Miyuki is not your sister" because she is not his sister under the rule of Yotsuba. Simply, she is telling Tatsuya to accept the invitation once he get one.

Second, unlike the spoiler, Zhou's age is not confirmed. We only knows he is at least 40 years old.
He lived in Chinatown for 10 years, and he was on the run for 30 years.

Third, Yotsuba's meeting was made in order to judge Tatsuya's ability as a magician.
Unlike some fake spoilers from 4chan, the meeting has nothing to do with Miyuki becoming a heir. 7 branch heads of Yotsuba were summoned to discuss because of Tatsuya.

one question about the ES part : are you sure about the minoru and kyouko have the same father part ? because shound't kyouko be the daughter of the fujibajashi head(?) and koudo retsus daughter ?

[nani895]

Originally Posted by somerand

"Don't stand a chance", firstly Tatsuya has been shown to have difficulties targeting through parade and it has been out right stated Minoru's parade is superior to that of Lina's. Obviously they aren't going to be taken out by decomposition easily, it was also straight out stated that Lina might have beaten him if serious. We have no idea how a Miyuki vs Tatsuya fight would go. It would likely come down to a Cocytus vs Decomposition speed competition, I'd favour Tatsuya's speed but it's still simply fact that we don't know who has the faster innate ability and Cocytus could definitely kill him. Katsuo would put up a fight for obvious reasons stated in the novel. Out of all the people you listed Mayumi/Masaki are the only two that "wouldn't stand a chance" as you put it.

Lina without a doubt stands a good chance in a serious fight.

Yes Minrou's Parade is stronger than Lina's however he has a body condition where he cannot fight for long periods and he can't kill tatsuya(atleast not so easily). As the fight goes on Tide go in favor for Tatsuya. And if he wants to fight for long periods he has to dial down his magic(if he can do it in future) making it easier for Tatsuya. I will also tell you that Parade is not an offensive magic. He can only defend himself with it and has to use other attack(there is not perfect defense anything will have its own flaws you just need to find them - Tatsuya can do that if he has enough time).

Lina could defeat him if only she has brionac without it she cant stand against it. Tatsuya is already preparing Barron Lance which is supposed to be a counter to Lina(Some are saying its a copy-cat for brinac to use his own strategic class magic)
He gave an ultimatum that he can Defeat Lina with it already.(At the same time he can counter Phalanx with it according to Novel)

Miyuki is a wild card I agree. Her Cocytus is a big threat and only magic show to have a possibility to kill Tatsuya. Let me ask you He has know that Magic for a long time now, do you really assume he wouldn't have analysed it already and found some weakness he could exploit if ever it is used against him? Though his brotherly love may stop him from doing that. But he is a strategist with genius level intellect I want to believe that he did do that(hey com on, he is supposed to be genius Counter-Magic expert). moreover in reminiscence arc Tatsuya is show to use decomposition faster than Sakurai's magic without any cad. I won't argue Sakurai is on par in speed with Miyuki but if he is that fast without cad at that age, do you really think he won't have greater speed with all this experience using it and Silver series cad?

Also let me say I they are in 1vs1 battle definitely its going to be a long one as they are all at almost same level on raw power and excel in their own offense and defense. In such kind of one who can think many steps ahead always has advantage and none of the characters has such ability when Tatsuya is considered a monster when it comes to Intellect ans Strategy.

I agree a battle can't be predicted as it can change depending on certain element how trivial they maybe. But they cannot be won with Power alone not when you are facing a foe like Tatsuya. That's why I said they don't stand a chance(unless they can reach his level of Intellect)

I am a hard shipper of Tatsuya, so sorry if i offended you dude.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Clutchdog

I think that's overrating Katsuto, Masaki and Minoru. Cocytus is a matchup nightmare, and it's AoE. And it's faster than anything they can use.

Cocytus is not AoE, it's clearly single target but she can magically target 16 at once. And you can't prove that it's faster that what they can use, I doubt it's faster than Masaki's Rupture since it's his innate magic and he uses a Specialized CAD for this. Phalanx can be used as easily as Cocytus by Katsuto, by waving his hands. I prefer not to discuss about Minoru much but it's confirmed that his Parade is even better than Lina's and his speed was said to be similar to Mayumi IIRC, who was rivaling Miyuki in speed in Volume 7.

Originally Posted by Kokus

one question about the ES part : are you sure about the minoru and kyouko have the same father part ? because shound't kyouko be the daughter of the fujibajashi head(?) and koudo retsus daughter ?

Spoiler for Quote:

Minoru’s father was genetically Kudou Makoto.

Genetically, his mother was Makoto’s youngest sister who had married into the Fujibayashi clan.

In short, Minoru was Kyouko’s half-brother — a child born from two actual siblings.

Kyouko is Retsu's grandaughter, not her daughter. She must be the child of the legal wife, and Minoru is the child of her aunt.

[Clutchdog]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Cocytus is not AoE, it's clearly single target but she can magically target 16 at once. And you can't prove that it's faster that what they can use, I doubt it's faster than Masaki's Rupture since it's his innate magic and he uses a Specialized CAD for this. Phalanx can be used as easily as Cocytus by Katsuto, by waving his hands. I prefer not to discuss about Minoru much but it's confirmed that his Parade is even better than Lina's and his speed was said to be similar to Mayumi IIRC, who was rivaling Miyuki in speed in Volume 7.

Well, no. It's implied that Cocytus is an AoE magic with Miyuki simply having the ability pinpoint the effect to a high degree. See here:

Judging from this instability, the Antinite user is a non-magician without a magic field. Just because you‘re pushing a bunch of Psions, and are using a general form of Cast Jamming you can’t even control properly, thinking you can keep me, the candidate for the next Yotsuba head, down forever is a big mistake!
I cannot use a CAD. The time taken to initiate an activation sequence would be too much.
The only magic I can use then, is that.
The mental interference magic I inherited from Okaa-sama.
It’s different from Okaa-sama’s magic, which interferes with mental structure, but like Okaa-sama’s magic, it acts upon the target’s mind.
It’s a magic which freezes their soul.
So as to not involve unrelated people in the effect, I took aim only at the one wearing the Antinite ring—

And activated my mental freeze magic, ‘Cocytus’.

And the second time it's used is of course as an AoE attack in the Yokohama arc.

And here within the same quote is also the other point of refute, this time to your claim of Cocytus not being faster.
Innate magics are faster than any magic wielded by cads (excluding Bironac) due to the user being able to sidestep the activation sequence. And since both Masaki and Katsuto use cads for their magics we can infer that Miyuki would be faster.
I assume this is only for "Innate" magics, not family inherited ones. So, for example most of the Yotsuba, as well as any BS magician.

This is also where the problem with Tatsuya vs Miyuki lies. Tatsuya using decomposition as is would most likely be at least comparable with Miyuki's speed but since he would naturally have to use Trident against her to actually harm her, Miyuki would have the edge in speed. So it simply comes down to how lethal Cocytus is for him.

[somerand]

Originally Posted by nani895

Yes Minrou's Parade is stronger than Lina's however he has a body condition where he cannot fight for long periods and he can't kill tatsuya(atleast not so easily). As the fight goes on Tide go in favor for Tatsuya. And if he wants to fight for long periods he has to dial down his magic(if he can do it in future) making it easier for Tatsuya. I will also tell you that Parade is not an offensive magic. He can only defend himself with it and has to use other attack(there is not perfect defense anything will have its own flaws you just need to find them - Tatsuya can do that if he has enough time).

Lina could defeat him if only she has brionac without it she cant stand against it. Tatsuya is already preparing Barron Lance which is supposed to be a counter to Lina(Some are saying its a copy-cat for brinac to use his own strategic class magic)
He gave an ultimatum that he can Defeat Lina with it already.(At the same time he can counter Phalanx with it according to Novel)

Miyuki is a wild card I agree. Her Cocytus is a big threat and only magic show to have a possibility to kill Tatsuya. Let me ask you He has know that Magic for a long time now, do you really assume he wouldn't have analysed it already and found some weakness he could exploit if ever it is used against him? Though his brotherly love may stop him from doing that. But he is a strategist with genius level intellect I want to believe that he did do that(hey com on, he is supposed to be genius Counter-Magic expert). moreover in reminiscence arc Tatsuya is show to use decomposition faster than Sakurai's magic without any cad. I won't argue Sakurai is on par in speed with Miyuki but if he is that fast without cad at that age, do you really think he won't have greater speed with all this experience using it and Silver series cad?

Also let me say I they are in 1vs1 battle definitely its going to be a long one as they are all at almost same level on raw power and excel in their own offense and defense. In such kind of one who can think many steps ahead always has advantage and none of the characters has such ability when Tatsuya is considered a monster when it comes to Intellect ans Strategy.

I agree a battle can't be predicted as it can change depending on certain element how trivial they maybe. But they cannot be won with Power alone not when you are facing a foe like Tatsuya. That's why I said they don't stand a chance(unless they can reach his level of Intellect)

I am a hard shipper of Tatsuya, so sorry if i offended you dude.

Let me be clear. I never said I thought Minoru/Miyuki was stronger than Tatsuya. I responded to the original post that said Minoru/Lina/Miyuki/Masaki wouldn't stand a chance against Tatsuya. My argument wasn't that they would beat him more often than not, simply that they are in the same league and would put up a fight.

Minoru would likely lose, but I'm sure he would give a good fight. His parade allows him to avoid being targeted by decomposition and without decomposition Tatsuya would take heavy damage from Minoru's lightning attacks forcing him to heavily rely on his regrowth to stay in the fight until he manages to find a way to hit mInoru and as seen in his first fight against Lina that would take him time and significant effort. Would Tatsuya win? Yes I believe so, but my point was that Minoru would put up a good fight, unlike the guy that originally said "wouldn't stand a chance".

If you were to ask me who would actually have a chance of killing Tatsuya instead of just "Putting up a good fight" then the only two I can think of would be Miyuki/Lina. Those are the only two with the right move set to actually kill him.

Katsuo is obviously guaranteed to give him a long and difficult fight, but he focuses on defence and I think we all know in the end Tatsuya superhuman psion count would out last Katsuo's stamina and Katsuo has no way of killing him, so I would give it to Tatsuya 10/10 times even though Katsuo would put up a long fight 10/10.

Miyuki on the other hand I believe would lose a lot quicker than Katsuo most times, her situation is either get in a quick Cocytus to kill him or lose. Unlike Katsuo who would definitely put up a fight every single time out of 10 I believe Miyuki would lose fairly quickly most times if they had 10 matches, but Unlike most people she would probably win a couple simply because she is one of the only people with an ability actually capable of killing him.

Anyway in regards to Echizen and others saying that Tatsuya is definitely faster than Miyuki using Cocytus, we really don't know that. It would appear that their innate/born specialised abilities are much quicker than their regular magic. This is obvious with Tatsuya who is over 800 ms with normal magic and even slow by course two standards yet can achieve super speeds with his innate abilities. We know that Miyuki achieved 220ms roughly using an old poorly maintained CAD in their first year, we have no idea beyond that what speed her innate ability can be activated at. Yet again, as I said in my original post, I believe it's more likely that Tatsuya is faster. But it's a simple fact that it isn't confirmed and Miyuki could be faster with Cocytus.

Also in regards to Echizen post, Rupture isn't a innate/born specialized ability. Cocytus is and it should be faster than Miyuki's regular magic, meaning it's more likely than not superior in speed to Masaki's rupture.

[expertsource]

Someone said that Tatsuya's psion count twice bigger than lina's when it is restricted(%50). So his true psion count four times bigger than Sirius angel(lina) that's why i can understand why maya call him monster(psion count one of the reasons).
İs this a true information? Do we know Tatsuya's psion count compared to lina or others?

[hellraiser85]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

you can't prove that it's faster that what they can use, I doubt it's faster than Masaki's Rupture since it's his innate magic and he uses a Specialized CAD for this.

it's not his innate magic. masaki doesn't have any innate magic, only the yotsuba have one

[caminhas]

Originally Posted by expertsource

Someone said that Tatsuya's psion count twice bigger than lina's when it is restricted(%50). So his true psion count four times bigger than Sirius angel(lina) that's why i can understand why maya call him monster(psion count one of the reasons).
İs this a true information? Do we know Tatsuya's psion count compared to lina or others?

i doubt it's only that, i mean if lina had half of tatsuya's psion count i don't see why she wouldn't be able to use Gram Demolition.

And Maya calls him a monster due to his other power (aka Decomposition, Regrowth and ES).