Mahouka LN - Master Clan Conference Arc (Volumes 17, 18, & 19) Discussion / Poll

[Zeborg]

Originally Posted by Lazy cat

I don't think that zone interference could interfere with rupture, with any other of Masaki magics maybe, but fluids manipulation is the specialty of the ichijou so ZI is kinda ineffective, Plus didn't Masaki used an AOE version of rupture during the yokohama disturbance, here's the link for the wikia.

http://mahouka-koukou-no-rettousei.w.../Kyokan_Jigoku

Miyuki's ZI is definitely strong enough to negate Rupture. But it depends on the area she tries to cover. If it's just 2-5 blocks, Masaki most likely will have no way of touching those blocks, so it would be literally impossible for him to win. If Miyuki tried to cover the entire area and spread her ZI, Rupture would likely be enough to puncture somewhere.

In general, Ice pillars break is a game that contests all of Miyuki's strongest aspects of magic. And considering Miyuki's overall level, most likely no one in the entire Mahouka magic world is able to beat her at this game. I'm not sure who has the edge in speed, but that doesn't really come into play when you're unable to affect the opponents area. It's not really even a close match, depending on the strategy it would be a complete blowout. Well, at least if Miyuki is unsealed, but the overall picture wouldn't be all that different even with a sealed Miyuki. Masaki would simply be able to take out more blocks while his area gets overrun.

The more interesting match in concept is between Tatsuya and Masaki, even though that would probably end in Masaki's magical exhaustion. Or between Katsuto and Miyuki, which would end in the same manner with Katsuto being the one depleting his psions reserves first.

That magic of Masaki is not Rupture but it does control liquids. Without even taking into account that his IS is not enough to take on Miyuki's area with this spell, his own area would be gone in the 30-60 seconds it takes to cast this.

Ice pillars break is basically a contest of pure magical power. So, Miyuki > Katsuto > Lina/Minoru --> etc.

[MRD143]

Originally Posted by Lazy cat

I don't think that zone interference could interfere with rupture, with any other of Masaki magics maybe, but fluids manipulation is the specialty of the ichijou so ZI is kinda ineffective, Plus didn't Masaki used an AOE version of rupture during the yokohama disturbance, here's the link for the wikia.

http://mahouka-koukou-no-rettousei.w.../Kyokan_Jigoku

During the final battle against the parasites Miyuki had to be careful with her ZI because at full power it would interfere with Tatsuya and Lina casting Magic. So if those two would have trouble Masaki would definitely be up a creek against Miyuki.

[TrueAlchemist]

I will just share few more details and details on magic by Gu Jie and Tatsuya's tracking magic.

Spoiler for Vol.19 spoiler:

After the scene between Toudou Aoba and Yakumo, there is a scene between Miyuki and Tatsuya. Tatsuya asks Miyuki to come down to the basement at 4 a.m. And, he also asks her to take a shower and wear swimsuit. This is where B/W illustration is taking place. Tatsuya worries about Miyuki, and he holds her hands while using the elemental sight to track down Gu Jie. (By the way, I will skip the detailed translation because of forum rule, and I do not wish to confuse other readers with my own interpretation. Personally, I think, this scene shows Tatsuya's affection (obsession?) towards Miyuki. But, others may think otherwise.)

When Gu Jie senses Tatsuya's gaze, Gu Jie feels, someone from another world (underworld / netherworld) is looking at him. He immediately uses 步罡踏斗 (bugang tadou; Chinese pronunciation). [Information not from Mahouka: Bugang Tadou means a person is training himself/herself by moving his or her body in the pattern of The Big Dipper (踏斗). The purpose of original Bugang Tadou is to train one's mind and spirit. So, the author may simply use the name and ideas from the original Bugang Tadou, but Mahouka's Bugang Tadou and original Bugang Tadou are different.]

According to the narrator, Kunlunfang Institute managed to improve Bugang Tadou. Unlike the traditional version of Bugang Tadou, a magician does not have to move one's body in the pattern of The Big Dipper. This magic was created to repel SB (spiritual being), but its effect towards modern magic is limited. Tatsuya's Psyon Bullet simply breaks Gu Jie's defense, but Tatsuya does not use any magic on Gu Jie. Tatsuya's Psyon Bullet is hit and stuck on Gu Jie, but Gu Jie does not notice any change on himself.

Based on the conversation between Tatsuya and Miyuki, Tatsuya could kill Gu Jie, but he needs Gu Jie alive, so he only marked Gu Jie with his Psyon Bullet. The concept is similar to Nakura's blood in Zhou when Zhou was tracked by Tatsuya. And, according to the narrator Tatsuya can break ghost walker magic with the technique that he learned from Yakumo.

With Tatsuya's ES and decomposition, he can eliminate any target in long distance. Seems like, idiots at Yotsuba never had a chance against Tatsuya from the day one. However, do you guys think Yakumo's motoi or Kudou's Parade may be able to avoid Tatsuya's ES? In the Visitor Arc, Tatsuya's ES was not effective against Parade, but according to vol.19, Tatsuya can only use 50% of ES capacity because he always spends other 50% of ES capacity on Miyuki. It would be very interesting if Tatsuya can use 100% of ES capacity on Yakumo or Kudou Minoru / Lina.

[mashingan]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

I will just share few more details and details on magic by Gu Jie and Tatsuya's tracking magic.

Spoiler for Vol.19 spoiler:

Personally, I think, this scene shows Tatsuya's affection (obsession?) towards Miyuki. But, others may think otherwise.)

When Gu Jie senses Tatsuya's gaze, Gu Jie feels, someone from another world (underworld / netherworld) is looking at him. He immediately uses 步罡踏斗 (bugang tadou; Chinese pronunciation). [Information not from Mahouka: Bugang Tadou means a person is training himself/herself by moving his or her body in the pattern of The Big Dipper (踏斗). The purpose of original Bugang Tadou is to train one's mind and spirit. So, the author may simply use the name and ideas from the original Bugang Tadou, but Mahouka's Bugang Tadou and original Bugang Tadou are different.]

With Tatsuya's ES and decomposition, he can eliminate any target in long distance. Seems like, idiots at Yotsuba never had a chance against Tatsuya from the day one. However, do you guys think Yakumo's motoi or Kudou's Parade may be able to avoid Tatsuya's ES? In the Visitor Arc, Tatsuya's ES was not effective against Parade, but according to vol.19, Tatsuya can only use 50% of ES capacity because he always spends other 50% of ES capacity on Miyuki. It would be very interesting if Tatsuya can use 100% of ES capacity on Yakumo or Kudou Minoru / Lina.

Yes, I interpreted so too about Tatsuya's feeling to Miyuki, but there's limit on how I read the raw so I "just" understood it like that

Thank you for the additional info. It's always nice to know the references author took.

I think Tatsuya still has very tough fight against Ancient magicians. CMIIW, Yakumo's technique is capable to mask the info in Ideo Dimension. ES (or magicians generally) still need to retrieve data/info from Ideo Dimension to translate it on how to rewrite physical phenomena using magic sequence which filled with psion.
If we make an analogy, magic sequences just like a formulas while psion is media to execute that formula. Since it's formula, magician still needs the magic calculation area to define how much the value of variables needed to overwrite the phenomena.

So against the techniques which capable to mask info in Ideo Dimension, it's still hard to defeat, not impossible but still hard.
Btw, all above is just my speculation so it's prone be error.

[TrueAlchemist]

Originally Posted by mashingan

Yes, I interpreted so too about Tatsuya's feeling to Miyuki, but there's limit on how I read the raw so I "just" understood it like that

Thank you for the additional info. It's always nice to know the references author took.

I think Tatsuya still has very tough fight against Ancient magicians. CMIIW, Yakumo's technique is capable to mask the info in Ideo Dimension. ES (or magicians generally) still need to retrieve data/info from Ideo Dimension to translate it on how to rewrite physical phenomena using magic sequence which filled with psion.
If we make an analogy, magic sequences just like a formulas while psion is media to execute that formula. Since it's formula, magician still needs the magic calculation area to define how much the value of variables needed to overwrite the phenomena.

So against the techniques which capable to mask info in Ideo Dimension, it's still hard to defeat, not impossible but still hard.
Btw, all above is just my speculation so it's prone be error.

I think in order for Tatsuya to break Parade and Motoi, Tatsuya must extract information that is hidden inside the masked information. Just like tracking original IP address that uses a proxy server, I think, the location of a magician that uses motoi or parade can also be found. The concept wise, I think it is possible, but everything will be up to the author.

In Mahouka, big names such as Kamo, Tsutsimikado, and Hieizan showed up but no one were introduced from these organizations. So far, only traditional magician who is strong enough to push Tatsuya to the corner ,would be Yakumo. Personally, there are two things that I really want to see from Mahouka: a young traditional magician version of Miyuki / Minoru and a super strong traditional magician (some kind of sage) as Tatsuya's teacher.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

I will add few more details, which were not mentioned.
Also please share it with FB page if any one has an access.

Spoiler for Vol.19 Spoiler:

4. When Yakumo asked Aoba whether Aoba is a supporter of Tatsuya, Aoba answered by saying, "He may be a product (a (peace of) work, (作品)), which was acquired coincidentally(unexpectedly), but he is still one research subject. He has to be useful in the future as well." When Aoba says "useful", it means being useful as a guinea pig to provide more data. After hearing Aoba's words, Yakumo feels sympathetic towards Tatsuya because Aoba's influence is wide, and Yakumo assumes it will be very hard even for Tatsuya to get away from Aoba's influence (hand).

Spoiler for Personal interpretation and information:

4. For now, Aoba may be sponsoring Tatsuya indirectly because of his own interest. Seems like, Aoba and Tatsuya will make the first meeting in the near future.

TLDR: I predict an International Magic Association arc, where the Yotsuba sponsor entangles Tatsuya in political battles and crises that the IMA are involved in; so as to test Tatsuya's powers on a broader stage.

Thanks for the spoilers. I wonder what plans Yotsuba sponsor has for Tatsuya in the future. I have a suspicion that Tatsuya might end up being involved the magical world outside Japan, being entangled in the affairs, politics and conflict in the International Magic Association for the sake of acquiring even more data for the Yotsuba sponsor. And the sponsor might even be able to convince Tatsuya that doing so would be in Miyuki's interest. There are only so many experiments that can be run and Tatsuya can be lured into, within the confines of Japanese soil after all....

Of course, this hinges on a speculation that the Yotsuba sponsor is to the International Magical Association, what Kudou Retsu is to the Japanese magical community.

But I do think that the prospects of Tatsuya being entangled in conflicts beyond Japan may well be a reality in later volumes, and would be the catalyst for Tatsuya and Lina's path to intersect; and for Lina to play the role Miyuki intuitively predicted that she would play in the lives of both of the siblings, when seeing Lina off Japan at the end of the visitor arc. Lina cannot come to Japan. But it may well be that the Yotsuba sponsor is the means by which Tatsuya ends up in the USNA for... a visit.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

I will just share few more details and details on magic by Gu Jie and Tatsuya's tracking magic.

Spoiler for Vol.19 spoiler:

After the scene between Toudou Aoba and Yakumo, there is a scene between Miyuki and Tatsuya. Tatsuya asks Miyuki to come down to the basement at 4 a.m. And, he also asks her to take a shower and wear swimsuit. This is where B/W illustration is taking place. Tatsuya worries about Miyuki, and he holds her hands while using the elemental sight to track down Gu Jie. (By the way, I will skip the detailed translation because of forum rule, and I do not wish to confuse other readers with my own interpretation. Personally, I think, this scene shows Tatsuya's affection (obsession?) towards Miyuki. But, others may think otherwise.)

When Gu Jie senses Tatsuya's gaze, Gu Jie feels, someone from another world (underworld / netherworld) is looking at him. He immediately uses 步罡踏斗 (bugang tadou; Chinese pronunciation). [Information not from Mahouka: Bugang Tadou means a person is training himself/herself by moving his or her body in the pattern of The Big Dipper (踏斗). The purpose of original Bugang Tadou is to train one's mind and spirit. So, the author may simply use the name and ideas from the original Bugang Tadou, but Mahouka's Bugang Tadou and original Bugang Tadou are different.]

According to the narrator, Kunlunfang Institute managed to improve Bugang Tadou. Unlike the traditional version of Bugang Tadou, a magician does not have to move one's body in the pattern of The Big Dipper. This magic was created to repel SB (spiritual being), but its effect towards modern magic is limited. Tatsuya's Psyon Bullet simply breaks Gu Jie's defense, but Tatsuya does not use any magic on Gu Jie. Tatsuya's Psyon Bullet is hit and stuck on Gu Jie, but Gu Jie does not notice any change on himself.

Based on the conversation between Tatsuya and Miyuki, Tatsuya could kill Gu Jie, but he needs Gu Jie alive, so he only marked Gu Jie with his Psyon Bullet. The concept is similar to Nakura's blood in Zhou when Zhou was tracked by Tatsuya. And, according to the narrator Tatsuya can break ghost walker magic with the technique that he learned from Yakumo.

With Tatsuya's ES and decomposition, he can eliminate any target in long distance. Seems like, idiots at Yotsuba never had a chance against Tatsuya from the day one. However, do you guys think Yakumo's motoi or Kudou's Parade may be able to avoid Tatsuya's ES? In the Visitor Arc, Tatsuya's ES was not effective against Parade, but according to vol.19, Tatsuya can only use 50% of ES capacity because he always spends other 50% of ES capacity on Miyuki. It would be very interesting if Tatsuya can use 100% of ES capacity on Yakumo or Kudou Minoru / Lina.

I don't see it as enough to deal with Modern Magicians, even Gu Jie noticed it and according to your post he was unable to stop a Psion Bullet, which is very basic with his Ancient Magic technique. To me it means he is just incompetent. I don't get one thing too, even if he didn't want to kill him, couldn't he have incapacitated him? By piercing his limbs as usual or something.

It does mean that he would be able to deal with Parade much more easily at full capacity however since it was very hard for him to keep Lina in sight at 50%.

[Medivh]

He needed to prove and show that Gu Jie is the terrorist. Disabling him would result in him killing himself. He got hit by something similar to gram demolition. I don't think he was able to block that.

I think even with 100%, the bigger problem in parade is that you have to find the real target while fighting. This might take too much concentration.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Medivh

He needed to prove and show that Gu Jie is the terrorist. Disabling him would result in him killing himself. He got hit by something similar to gram demolition. I don't think he was able to block that.

I think even with 100%, the bigger problem in parade is that you have to find the real target while fighting. This might take too much concentration.

I see, injuring him would be bad. He used a Psion Bullet through the Idea so theoretically it was an application of Far Strike to track him, he is the only character known with a technique allowing him to make NS magic travel in this dimension so far. If his magic is not fit to stop that and he was not able to notice he had been marked it means his skills are not good, but he has never been considered as a strong magician anyway.

How does Tatsuya counter Ghostwalker?

[Medivh]

It was mentioned that he was using the marker and what he learned from yakumo to handle ghostwalker.

[Zeborg]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

I will just share few more details and details on magic by Gu Jie and Tatsuya's tracking magic.

After the scene between Toudou Aoba and Yakumo, there is a scene between Miyuki and Tatsuya. Tatsuya asks Miyuki to come down to the basement at 4 a.m. And, he also asks her to take a shower and wear swimsuit.

What does Miyuki think about all this?

With Tatsuya's ES and decomposition, he can eliminate any target in long distance. Seems like, idiots at Yotsuba never had a chance against Tatsuya from the day one. However, do you guys think Yakumo's motoi or Kudou's Parade may be able to avoid Tatsuya's ES? In the Visitor Arc, Tatsuya's ES was not effective against Parade, but according to vol.19, Tatsuya can only use 50% of ES capacity because he always spends other 50% of ES capacity on Miyuki. It would be very interesting if Tatsuya can use 100% of ES capacity on Yakumo or Kudou Minoru / Lina.

At least in terms of Parade I think it was mentioned that he would be able to track Lina if he immersed himself into ES, but the problem with that was that it took too long to do in a real combat situation. So I think the issue is more if Tatsuya is able to do it faster with a 100% ES.

[MRD143]

Originally Posted by novalysis

TLDR: I predict an International Magic Association arc, where the Yotsuba sponsor entangles Tatsuya in political battles and crises that the IMA are involved in; so as to test Tatsuya's powers on a broader stage.

Thanks for the spoilers. I wonder what plans Yotsuba sponsor has for Tatsuya in the future. I have a suspicion that Tatsuya might end up being involved the magical world outside Japan, being entangled in the affairs, politics and conflict in the International Magic Association for the sake of acquiring even more data for the Yotsuba sponsor. And the sponsor might even be able to convince Tatsuya that doing so would be in Miyuki's interest. There are only so many experiments that can be run and Tatsuya can be lured into, within the confines of Japanese soil after all....

Of course, this hinges on a speculation that the Yotsuba sponsor is to the International Magical Association, what Kudou Retsu is to the Japanese magical community.

But I do think that the prospects of Tatsuya being entangled in conflicts beyond Japan may well be a reality in later volumes, and would be the catalyst for Tatsuya and Lina's path to intersect; and for Lina to play the role Miyuki intuitively predicted that she would play in the lives of both of the siblings, when seeing Lina off Japan at the end of the visitor arc. Lina cannot come to Japan. But it may well be that the Yotsuba sponsor is the means by which Tatsuya ends up in the USNA for... a visit.

This kind of speculation is why I really think that Tudou Aoba is going to over estimate his power/influence and Tatsuya is going to kill him. Plus you have to wonder how Momma Maya would react towards somebody even if it is the sponsor trying to co-opt her son. The more we learn about Todou Aoba the more it seems like he really has no true understanding of how the Yotsuba think. Maya will kill him if she thinks he is interfering with her plans for vengeance. Tatsuya will kill him if he decides that he is a threat to Miyuki's happiness/safety. Miyuki will give the order or do it herself if she thinks he is a threat to her and Tatsuya's happiness/safety.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by MRD143

This kind of speculation is why I really think that Tudou Aoba is going to over estimate his power/influence and Tatsuya is going to kill him. Plus you have to wonder how Momma Maya would react towards somebody even if it is the sponsor trying to co-opt her son. The more we learn about Todou Aoba the more it seems like he really has no true understanding of how the Yotsuba think. Maya will kill him if she thinks he is interfering with her plans for vengeance. Tatsuya will kill him if he decides that he is a threat to Miyuki's happiness/safety. Miyuki will give the order or do it herself if she thinks he is a threat to her and Tatsuya's happiness/safety.

Maya and Hayama didn't want to make the sponsor angry in the visitor arc. Mitsugu also showed fear of doing something the sponsor wouldn't approve at some point in the series if I remember properly.

TrueAlchemist's spoiler mention that Yakumo doesn't think Toudou is "just a sponsor of the Yotsuba" like he claims as well.

Outside of Tatsuya I don't see any of the Yotsuba going against Toudou (not even Miyuki unless he is taken away form her, she's reporting to Maya behind Tatsuya's back already, where did you think he was getting his precious data from?).

[MRD143]

Totally different situations. If somebody intends to take the only person that you love away from you how would you react? Keep in mind you are a mad woman obsessed with vengeance on one hand and a completely obsessed bro-con on the other.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by MRD143

Totally different situations. If somebody intends to take the only person that you love away from you how would you react? Keep in mind you are a mad woman obsessed with vengeance on one hand and a completely obsessed bro-con on the other.

Like I said, unless he is taken away from her, and that means that as long as she can follow she has no problem with it.

Also, Toudou haven't mentioned anything about separating them. He's just interested in his research data on Tatsuya's abilities and Miyuki/Maya are the best placed to provide that information right now.

I'm starting to suspect that Kazama's little mission in Steeplechase might have been "sponsored" by Toudou now though. Which is mighty interesting because Yakumo didn't look like a fan.

There is also Erika's thinking twice that Tatsuya was being used has bait (once in the Yokohama's arc, that was Kazama's doing) and the other time in the Visitor arc (Tatsuya was thinking Koichi was behind it, Erika just said "that man", but what if it was Toudou that had someone watch over Tatsuya for the USNA, just like he had Yakumo watch over him in vol 19?).

[babbo3d]

Who is aoba.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by MRD143

This kind of speculation is why I really think that Tudou Aoba is going to over estimate his power/influence and Tatsuya is going to kill him. Plus you have to wonder how Momma Maya would react towards somebody even if it is the sponsor trying to co-opt her son. The more we learn about Todou Aoba the more it seems like he really has no true understanding of how the Yotsuba think. Maya will kill him if she thinks he is interfering with her plans for vengeance. Tatsuya will kill him if he decides that he is a threat to Miyuki's happiness/safety. Miyuki will give the order or do it herself if she thinks he is a threat to her and Tatsuya's happiness/safety.

It is implying Tatsuya knows what he is planning. Tatsuya knows there is a sponsor but he doesn't know the details or his plans, he said it when he was with Retsu(volume 14). Even the spoilers posted by TA and mashingan indicate this. Miyuki isn't even aware that there is one.

Originally Posted by babbo3d

Who is aoba.

The Yotsuba sponsor.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

It is implying Tatsuya knows what he is planning. Tatsuya knows there is a sponsor but he doesn't know the details or his plans

Tatsuya can't both know and don't know what the sponsor is planning/his plan. Did you mean to say, that it is implied Tatsuya know who it is in the first sentence?

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Tatsuya can't both know and don't know what the sponsor is planning/his plan. Did you mean to say, that it is implied Tatsuya know who it is in the first sentence?

He knows there is a sponsor but he doesn't know what are his plans.

[mashingan]

^ Now you mentioned it, Tatsuya indeed knows there are people behind Yotsuba. Iirc, it was indicated when Tatsuya talked with Miyuki during 9SC in hotel room. Defeating Yotsuba won't end of their suffering, there will be someone who nastier than Yotsuba appears.
That's why Tatsuya was obedient with Yotsuba.

However Tatsuya has no way to know who the sponsor is.