Re:Zero Second Season - Anime Episode Discussion

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I knew about Satella looking exactly like Emilia (one of the visuals revealed it) but it seems there is more to it than that. As in, Emilia and Satella are in fact the same person, probably due to some time travel fuckery. It felt like Subaru sensed this and that's why he said he would save her. It would also explain why she's obsessed with Subaru. One thing that throws a bit of a wrench in that theory is that Satella called him Subaru-kun instead of just Subaru.

Maybe he sub-consciously realized Satella was possessing Emilia's body (which is what I assumed happened) but I can't think it's a coincidence that Satella and Emilia look so alike right down to having the same voice. Then again, they also introduced cloning in this episode...

I thought the "Subaru-kun" was interesting too. Was she trying to evoke Rem ?

I wasn't expecting Garfiel to have already passed the trial and be an Apostle of Echidna. What are his motives exactly?

If Echidna is his "lover" (what about Ram then?) maybe he doesn't want Subaru getting close to her? Or there shouldn't be another Apostle ?

[SeaDoor]

Originally Posted by Kanon

...more to it than that. As in, Emilia and Satella are in fact the same person, probably due to some time travel fuckery.

Yes! This is the same thought that has been bugging me for a while now. This and the question of why Emilia identified herself as Satella in the early loop.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by SeaDoor

Yes! This is the same thought that has been bugging me for a while now. This and the question of why Emilia identified herself as Satella in the early loop.

She did that in hopes it would scare Subaru off. Even Puck then noted that was in bad taste because the amount of pain and trauma association with Satella has brought her. Remember she also got upset when Subaru called her by that name in the very next loop.

EDIT: Emilia being Satella isn't very high because Satella herself still has physically body. The legend Beatrice told Subaru mentioned she had never been killed, only sealed. Its more like this was Satella possessing her than actually being her. Emilia being a half-elf herself makes her a good vessel for it as Petelgeuse noted back in S1.

[HandofFate]

For all intents, Garfield is another tsundere to add to Subaru's posse, but guess the author was tired of giving him too many girl companions in each arc, so made him a guy this time.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Applehell

She did that in hopes it would scare Subaru off. Even Puck then noted that was in bad taste because the amount of pain and trauma association with Satella has brought her. Remember she also got upset when Subaru called her by that name in the very next loop.

EDIT: Emilia being Satella isn't very high because Satella herself still has physically body. The legend Beatrice told Subaru mentioned she had never been killed, only sealed. Its more like this was Satella possessing her than actually being her. Emilia being a half-elf herself makes her a good vessel for it as Petelgeuse noted back in S1.

Definitely this. We can even assume that the ultimate goal of the Witch Cult is to free Satella...at least that was Petelguese's goal, not sure about the other Archbishops.

Originally Posted by HandofFate

For all intents, Garfield is another tsundere to add to Subaru's posse, but guess the author was tired of giving him too many girl companions in each arc, so made him a guy this time.

Haha. Well, if Garfiel were a girl, then Garfiel and Fredrica would overlap with Ram and Rem who are also sisters, albeit twins.

[moridin84]

* This feels like a "true loop".
* Emila is in a really good mental position due to having to comfort Subaru rather then getting comforted.
* I'm assuming that Satella had Emilia's face because she possessed Emilia.
* Ryuzu being a clone suggests that Emilia might be a clone herself. Adding more possbilities to the connection being Emilia and Satella
* Beatrice's reaction to Subaru is a bit strange. Since she follows the gospel, has her gospel been "updated" with Subaru's current actions?

Also
https://youtu.be/Kfq-554X65s

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Applehell

EDIT: Emilia being Satella isn't very high because Satella herself still has physically body. The legend Beatrice told Subaru mentioned she had never been killed, only sealed. Its more like this was Satella possessing her than actually being her. Emilia being a half-elf herself makes her a good vessel for it as Petelgeuse noted back in S1.

I think it was definitely a possession (no one brought up what happened to Emilia after Satella appeared and consumed everyone), but the fact that her dress and face changed so much tells me that there was some kind of physical change. So that's probably the best we have to go on as far as what Satella looks like versus Emilia.

I also assume that was actually Satella's voice since Rie Takahashi played her when she talked to Petelgeuse in season 1.

Although the big question is how Satella was able to possess her now .

Originally Posted by moridin84

* This feels like a "true loop".
* Ryuzu being a clone suggests that Emilia might be a clone herself. Adding more possbilities to the connection being Emilia and Satella

It would explain a lot about why the two look and sound so similar...and Echidna was behind the cloning technology. Is this why she's so dismissive of Emilia ?

Spoiler for Frozen Bond:

I believe in the OVA the narration telling Puck to watch over Emilia was supposed to be Echidna, so seems like Echidna might have had something to do with Emilia or making sure she was taken care of.

* Beatrice's reaction to Subaru is a bit strange. Since she follows the gospel, has her gospel been "updated" with Subaru's current actions?

Yeah, it seemed like she was expecting him, so maybe her book got updated with his current loop .

[~Yami~]

I think finally we arrived at the final loop

so far, we know that Elza will come and slaughter the mansion (in possibly 3rd-4th day)
Garfiel will kill Subaru if he knew that Subaru cleared the trial (or at least confined him)
and Satella will swallow everything to claim Subaru back after attending 2nd tea party (which confirmed that it is almost impossible for him to have the 3rd.. Satella will go crazy)
If Subaru did nothing for too long, White Rabbit will visit the sanctuary and kill everyone.

The trial and error are going so bad for Subaru but at least he already got most of the important information (going for 2nd tea party proved to be the best decision to gather data). Relying on Beatrice is something that we hope Subaru has done since the first or second time loop

Satella and Emilia looked little bit different?? or is it just because of those shaky animation that I could not see the resemblance?

[GDB]

Arc's not even half over, this definitely isn't the final loop.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by GDB

Arc's not even half over, this definitely isn't the final loop.

An arc can have more than one save point.
In the last arc, the save point is updated after the White Whale was killed.

[Kanon]

If physical time travel was involved, there's no issue with Satella having her own sealed separate body from Emilia's. The main reason I think time travel is involved is that Return by Death is pretty much time travel already, Subaru's consciousness gets sent back in time every time he dies. Granted, this is what it looks like, since we were never told the mechanism of it.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

An arc can have more than one save point.
In the last arc, the save point is updated after the White Whale was killed.

I'm expecting the next save point is going to come after whatever happens with Beatrice.

[SeaDoor]

I have to hand it to this story, it sure keeps a lot of questions active at one time. The problem I'm having is that I am becoming a little confused as to which questions are important or not and if my confusion is making-up "facts" that haven't been established. Such as...

Spoiler for Just in case I may actually not be confused but most likely am.:

- Subaru is actually the end objective, not Emilia or Satella.
and
- Satella is Emilia's "mother" and Betelgeuse is/was her "father."
and
- Subaru progresses in the route when he establishes new allies.

Looking forward to the next episode.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

An arc can have more than one save point.
In the last arc, the save point is updated after the White Whale was killed.

Yes, and I called this being a new save point loop. I was specifically saying that this isn't the FINAL LOOP, as Yami thought it was.

[~Yami~]

Originally Posted by GDB

Yes, and I called this being a new save point loop. I was specifically saying that this isn't the FINAL LOOP, as Yami thought it was.

you're right
I tried to check some spoiler, and it seems like I'm jumping to the conclusion way too fast

[FlameSparkZ]

Rather than this being a "final loop", it feels more like a semblance of how to achieve the "best ending"...but I feel it's not enough.
Subaru himself seems to act with the intention of using this loop just to gather more information.
And remember that Elsa will attack earlier if Subaru returns before the appointed time (she said it so herself).
Getting Beatrice's help is vital in order to defeat Elsa, but there's also the aditional attack of the Mabeasts...and although we haven't seen the full extent of Beatrice's power, that many opponents at once could be troublesome.

Even if the attack on the mansion is solved, there's the issue with Garfiel back in Sanctuary. He probably won't be pleased with seeing Subaru again.
On top of that, there's the impending threat of the Great Rabbit...though if everything goes well, Roswaal should be able to deal with them the same way he did with the horde of ulgarm back in Arc 2.

Finally, there's Emilia and the Trials...is Subaru going to clear them, or Emilia? Granted, she's in a better mental state than previous loops, but she still showed signs of relying on Puck.

So, yeah...breaking this loop appears to a combination of Arc 3 (assembling comrades to deal with a threat) and in what order Subaru solves them.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by SeaDoor

I have to hand it to this story, it sure keeps a lot of questions active at one time. The problem I'm having is that I am becoming a little confused as to which questions are important or not and if my confusion is making-up "facts" that haven't been established. Such as...

Spoiler for Just in case I may actually not be confused but most likely am.:

- Subaru is actually the end objective, not Emilia or Satella.
and
- Satella is Emilia's "mother" and Betelgeuse is/was her "father."
and
- Subaru progresses in the route when he establishes new allies.

Looking forward to the next episode.

I have no idea where you got the second one from.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

Rather than this being a "final loop", it feels more like a semblance of how to achieve the "best ending"...but I feel it's not enough.
Subaru himself seems to act with the intention of using this loop just to gather more information.
And remember that Elsa will attack earlier if Subaru returns before the appointed time (she said it so herself).
Getting Beatrice's help is vital in order to defeat Elsa, but there's also the aditional attack of the Mabeasts...and although we haven't seen the full extent of Beatrice's power, that many opponents at once could be troublesome.

Even if the attack on the mansion is solved, there's the issue with Garfiel back in Sanctuary. He probably won't be pleased with seeing Subaru again.
On top of that, there's the impending threat of the Great Rabbit...though if everything goes well, Roswaal should be able to deal with them the same way he did with the horde of ulgarm back in Arc 2.

Finally, there's Emilia and the Trials...is Subaru going to clear them, or Emilia? Granted, she's in a better mental state than previous loops, but she still showed signs of relying on Puck.

So, yeah...breaking this loop appears to a combination of Arc 3 (assembling comrades to deal with a threat) and in what order Subaru solves them.

Maybe they tie up the trouble at the mansion by the end of this cour so the second half can focus on the Trials and the Great Rabbit.

[FlameSparkZ]

Next ep preview, named "Taste of Death"

YouTube

https://youtu.be/4wRLIpw5pmY

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Petra talks to Subaru about where they should go on their date.
Beatrice suggests a guidebook on famous dating spots in Lugnica, with Old man Rom's loot house being one of them

[Frontier]

Well...this loop did not go how I was expecting it too .

Beatrice never was being driven purely by her book, it stopped telling her the future a long time ago, she was just using it as an excuse. Even before Subaru realized that, though, he was still planning to save her in-spite of what she said to him in the last loop .

Beatrice's "mother" turns out to be Echidna, and she's a Spirit like Puck (is that why they have such affinity for each other?) driven to curate the library in the Roswaal Mansion (which I guess lends itself more to the connection between Echidna and Roswaal) for so long. But Beatrice is tired of living, thinking the lack of writing in her book is indicative that she has no future and she has nothing left to look forward to then the end of her long, drawn-out, contract. It's so sad seeing Beatrice so despondent and anxious to die, no matter how it has to happen. Is there no way for Subaru to save her (well, at least not in this loop) ?

Jeez, they couldn't leave Frederica and Petra alone, including the rest of the village? Why do they need to take everybody out ?

So it turns out Maylie was that blue-haired little girl from arc 2, and given she can control Mabeasts, I guess that makes her the true villain of that arc, and now she's back to finish the job. Subaru should've let Beatrice finish her .

I was about to take some solace that at least they killled Elsa, but even that didn't stick. Jeez, what's it going to take to beat her ?

Even in the end, Beatrice saves Subaru...

You could tell almost immediately that something was wrong with Emilia. I was half-thinking she was already Satella by this point and just doing a better job of hiding it, but it seems like she was maybe halfway through the possession or transformation into Satella? The obsession with Subaru and her feelings for him and some the way she worded things would've only made sense coming from Satella. It seems like the stress of failing to free Sanctuary and dealing with the villager' resentment isolate and degrade her mentally enough to where, without Puck, she can only channel her thoughts towards Subaru. Is that how the possession happened ?

Subaru can't take pleasure in Emilia saying she loves him because he knows it's not genuine given she's saying it under severe emotional distress. Even if she did say it, she wouldn't say she loves him and cares about him more than anything else, least of all Puck. This isn't the way Subaru wanted things at all .

So...Roswaal is behind the snow as part of his plan to drive Emilia to become like that? And everything he's ever done, every person and event he has manipulated, has all been for one dream. And he's using his knowledge of Subaru's Return by Death to achieve that end as well. Roswaal seems even more enigmatic, but certainly more sinister, to the point where I can't say he didn't deserve to get chomped on by those rabbits .

Jeez, Ram and Garfiel...I mean, I guess they died together, and Garfiel even tried to save her, which was kind of romantic, but that was still pretty brutal. What was it Roswaal promised Ram that gave her some solace? I kind of don't see him dedicating his soul to her like he said .

So Roswaal wants Subaru to forget everything and just focus purely on Emilia, to become like him. Frankly, considering what Roswaal has shown to be capable of and how he treats others, that's the last thing I would want to see Subaru become. That would definitely denigrate and tarnish the memory of Rem and what she did for Subaru .

Emilia seemingly cradles and kisses a torn to bits Subaru...but it wasn't really Emilia, was it? So probably not something Subaru can take pleasure in .