Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Q&A/Discussion about Magic & Technology

[Echizen777]

It's a mental function, so there is on real location. When they think of using magic, this function is unable. But you can think of activating magic only with a brain so...

[Zoks]

So looking at the new translations, we got an answer on whether Tatsuya's Gram Dispersion comes from the surgery or natural. Apparently, it's both. His "Eye" lets him see it, whereas his artificial Calculation Area lets him instantly analyze it. Which explains why the Yotsuba stopped trying after him, because he was the only one that could actually fully utilize the analysis ability.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Zoks

So looking at the new translations, we got an answer on whether Tatsuya's Gram Dispersion comes from the surgery or natural. Apparently, it's both. His "Eye" lets him see it, whereas his artificial Calculation Area lets him instantly analyze it. Which explains why the Yotsuba stopped trying after him, because he was the only one that could actually fully utilize the analysis ability.

Not sure about this.

It was more about Tatsuya's copying abilities. From what I understand, he reads the AS with ES, decodes the MS thanks to his artificial MCA and can copy and use it, we know the limits of his MCA compared to normal ones, but it means that without the artificial MCA he would not be able to copy them, normal since systematic magic was impossible for him.

But is it necessary for Gram Dispersion? I don't think knowing the magic sequence is necessary. If Tatsuya was without the artificial MCA he would be able to use it, but unable to predict the magic about to be used since he would be unable to memorize the numbers from the AS.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Not sure about this.

It was more about Tatsuya's copying abilities. From what I understand, he reads the AS with ES, decodes the MS thanks to his artificial MCA and can copy and use it, we know the limits of his MCA compared to normal ones, but it means that without the artificial MCA he would not be able to copy them, normal since systematic magic was impossible for him.

But is it necessary for Gram Dispersion? I don't think knowing the magic sequence is necessary. If Tatsuya was without the artificial MCA he would be able to use it, but unable to predict the magic about to be used since he would be unable to memorize the numbers from the AS.

Hmm, maybe not Gram Dispersion per se, but rather one of the applications of it. Like what he did back in Volume 2 against the guy using the fake Evil Eye. He probably could just screw the whole thing up without being specific in his targeting.

[Maxaumus]

Lina also mentioned that there is training to help you fight or counter mental . Its funny that people think in a serious fight that Tatsuya would get close to his opponets when no one shown has the range he does

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by Zoks

Hmm, maybe not Gram Dispersion per se, but rather one of the applications of it. Like what he did back in Volume 2 against the guy using the fake Evil Eye. He probably could just screw the whole thing up without being specific in his targeting.

The way I read it was that the explanation given in v14 has nothing to do with his ability to disrupt others' magic and was only about his own ability to use regular magic outside his birth magics. To me it was describing his virtual MCA as being compatible with using any kind of magic, whether it be modern or ancient magic, rare or unique magic spells. His magical implant can decipher the spell basics and process any special spell compilations flawlessly. Its only limitation is it cannot produce the raw magic power required to make the majority of spells bend reality faster or more efficiently than other non-magical techniques, procedures, physical labour or natural phenomena can.

[Echizen777]

I was reading Vol 8 and noticed something

From my brother’s right hand, a torrent of psions poured forth.

The psion wave swept through Lance Corporal Higaki’s body, and as they did his charge slowed with a snap.

This is……! Gram Demolition!

The raging storm of psion particles forcibly overwhelmed the self-acceleration magic applied to the body, and at the same time shook the connections between the mind and the body. Against a person skilled enough to control his body not through electrical nervous impulses but rather directly through his consciousness, the barrage of external foreign psions wrecked even greater havoc.

It was almost like, Lance Corporal Higaki had forgotten how to tackle.

As the Lance Corporal threw himself defencelessly at my brother, my brother simply moved aside and dealt one blow.

It is Far Strike, right? Did Tsutomu make a mistake? I know that it is another form of Gram Demolition but he had not mastered it.

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I was reading Vol 8 and noticed something



It is Far Strike, right? Did Tsutomu make a mistake? I know that it is another form of Gram Demolition but he had not mastered it.

Tatsuya, most likely, just wanted to cancel the magic, but the torrent of psions was so great that caused an effect similar to Far Strike. Maybe the author was already foreshadowing this application of Gram Demolition.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

Invocation Speed should also be taken to account.

Remember, when Tatsuya uses his Decomposition Magic, there is no lag time due to him able to use Flash Cast...

Regardless of Phalanx ability to refresh, it would not matter if Tatsuya's spell already hits.

Also, the Baryon Lance spell is said by Tatsuya is capable of punching a whole through Phalanx...

And if worst comes to worst, there is always material bursts.

And if it is possible, Tatsuya can reversed engineer Phalanx. He can create a continuous decomposition spell

Flash Cast is not used for Decomposition. Obviously Katsuto can activate his signature magic fast too. Trident would destroy at best 3 barriers simultaneously, he has ES and saw Katsuto fight in the 9SC, if he was way behind in terms of speed we would know it. it's like there are 10 walls, and he destroys 3, the whole magic won't restart. Baryon Lance can bypass Phalanx but it is not completed yet, he is developing this magic because he knows his current magics can't do it. MB is not for combat, by transporting such a big CAD he would not be able to use it anyway and even if he did, he would die in the explosion. The only one able to use SC magic for combat so far is Lina, and soon Tatsuya will be able to do the same.

Originally Posted by Iramohs

Trident would not target Phalanx. You're thinking of gram/mist dispersal. Trident is Tatsuya's triple decomposition magic that destroys a magician and turns them into dust. He decomposes the wide area interference around the magician, then the unconscious data fortification on their eidos, then decomposes their flesh down to molecules and ions. He's only used it when he was wiping out No Head Dragon in volume 4. But we're getting off-topic again and this conversation is pointless since they will never fight especially since Juumonji's been excluded from the story for the most part.

And he would not be able to destroy the area interference because of the Phalanx barriers... That's why I said, 3 at best. Three barriers are destroyed and it's over.

[Diocar]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I was reading Vol 8 and noticed something



It is Far Strike, right? Did Tsutomu make a mistake? I know that it is another form of Gram Demolition but he had not mastered it.

I would say it was a mix between gram demolition and fanthom blow or if you want a gram demolition with the effects of a phantom blow added. If i remember correctly they say it was not a normal gram demolition a little after that. (Phantom blow is another non sistematic magic simillar to gram demolition but causes a concussion, however it doesn t cancel a magic sequence)

[Diocar]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Flash Cast is not used for Decomposition. Obviously Katsuto can activate his signature magic fast too. Trident would destroy at best 3 barriers simultaneously, he has ES and saw Katsuto fight in the 9SC, if he was way behind in terms of speed we would know it. it's like there are 10 walls, and he destroys 3, the whole magic won't restart. Baryon Lance can bypass Phalanx but it is not completed yet, he is developing this magic because he knows his current magics can't do it. MB is not for combat, by transporting such a big CAD he would not be able to use it anyway and even if he did, he would die in the explosion. The only one able to use SC magic for combat so far is Lina, and soon Tatsuya will be able to do the same.



And he would not be able to destroy the area interference because of the Phalanx barriers... That's why I said, 3 at best. Three barriers are destroyed and it's over.

First you are confusing things. Trident is a a sequence of 3 spells. What you should be focusing is THE number of targets he can aim with each spell. Which If i Am not mistaken is 36 or something like that and yakumo in one of THE first vols even speak of a method to target more things... however this isn t important agaisnt phalanx because there are infinite barriers. In order to beat phalanx with decomposition tats would need to decompose the area where phalanx is casted instead of each barrier of phalanx. However so far his gram dispersion doesn t work that way...
I will put here also what i said about phalanx in THE other topic

You guys don t understand what phalanx really is.
What jummonji does is create infinite barriers around him, like for example for 1 meter around him there are infinifinite barriers anti movement composed by psions (kind of like an onion with infinite skins). So phalanx doesn t refresh or anything like it, simply everytime a barrier is destroied another appears and as there are infinite barriers the number of barriers doesn t diminish. Next part is about the IS, casting phalanx has a simillar effect to tomitsuka wall of psions. Basically like tomitsuka jummunji's eidos is protected because it is basically surrounded by several layers of psions just like tomitsuka (it doesn t have any other of tomi wall of psions abilities). So basically the IS is about If someone can cast a spell in the same place as phalanx because only one spell can be cast at THE same coordinates, (THE one casted by THE magician with more IS). If someone has more IS than jummonji his phalanx is innefective.
Lastly, tats has/had a lot of probs agaisnt phalanx because he couldn t target jummonji directly and his gram dispersal targets each barrier of phalanx individually creating a fight of atrition in which tats decomposes bariers and jummonji tries to use his barriers to do stuff.

[Echizen777]

It's 24.

Phalanx is a set of barriers, it's only one magic. Besides if it was possible to bypass barriers with multi targeting like that they would be useless, since a lot can already do something like that, the information would need to pass and destroy the barriers. For multi targeting Katsuto should be even better since he beneficed from the researches of the 3rd lab too. Tatsuya knows what he is able to do anyway, why would he not think about this if it was possible?

[Diocar]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

It's 24.

Phalanx is a set of barriers, it's only one magic. Besides if it was possible to bypass barriers with multi targeting like that they would be useless, since a lot can already do something like that, the information would need to pass and destroy the barriers. For multi targeting Katsuto should be even better since he beneficed from the researches of the 3rd lab too. Tatsuya knows what he is able to do anyway, why would he not think about this if it was possible?

Hey when did i say that tats could use his gram dispersion to defeat phalanx? I simply said that you were confusing THE number of spells with the number of barriers he could destroy... And then that using his gram dispersion it wouldn t be possible to beat phalanx...
And THE 3rd lab isn t about herd control? I don t think it is THE same as the target of a spell because we have seen characters like shippou control hundreds of things (like little papers) with a spell. So it wouldn t make sense that ppl consider that tats 24 or 36 are really good and then some characters can do it in THE hundreds.....

[Iramohs]

Hey when did i say that tats could use his gram dispersion to defeat phalanx? I simply said that you were confusing THE number of spells with the number of barriers he could destroy... And then that using his gram dispersion it wouldn t be possible to beat phalanx...
And THE 3rd lab isn t about herd control? I don t think it is THE same as the target of a spell because we have seen characters like shippou control hundreds of things (like little papers) with a spell. So it wouldn t make sense that ppl consider that tats 24 or 36 are really good and then some characters can do it in THE hundreds.....

The 3rd lab was researching using multiple high levels spells at once. The 7th lab was controlling multiple objects as one using magic( like herd control). Shippou controls hundreds of thousands of paper blades at once, but we've only seen him target two people at once with that magic. Tatsuya uses on magic and can target 36 objects at once(outside of combat).

[Diocar]

Originally Posted by Iramohs

The 3rd lab was researching using multiple high levels spells at once. The 7th lab was controlling multiple objects as one using magic( like herd control). Shippou controls hundreds of thousands of paper blades at once, but we've only seen him target two people at once with that magic. Tatsuya uses on magic and can target 36 objects at once(outside of combat).

Reading your post i could only imagine tats casting his new barion lance at 36 targets... Cool lol
Isn t tats using magic to control millions of objects (barions)? Should he be able to do that?

[Iramohs]

Reading your post i could only imagine tats casting his new barion lance at 36 targets... Cool lol
Isn t tats using magic to control millions of objects (barions)? Should he be able to do that?

We don't know how the magic works. I think he just separates the baryons from atoms and fires them in a direction of his choosing like Lina's Brionac.

[caminhas]

Originally Posted by Iramohs

There are actually a lot of magicians in Tatsuya's tier of strength. It's just that they're all allies to him. We need an extremely strong antagonist to show up soon. Jeido Heigu is like 87(probably) but he probably has some magicians that are that strong as well.

Really? Aside from Maya, Miyuki and maybe Juumonji, who is tats tier?

[nani895]

Originally Posted by caminhas

Really? Aside from Maya, Miyuki and maybe Juumonji, who is tats tier?

Kudou Retsu at his Prime is definitely a in the tier. I don't know if magical abilities diminish or effected by the strength of Physical Body so can't say if he is in the same league now

Kazama Harunobu - He is described to be an unscrupulous man and is capable of even winning against Tatsuya (albeit without Trident), and is Yakumo's second best student.

[tigerdave]

Originally Posted by caminhas

Really? Aside from Maya, Miyuki and maybe Juumonji, who is tats tier?

In terms of strength, Juumonji and Miyuki are not in Tatsuya's tier. Tatsuya can blow up an entire nation if he so chooses, maybe even more. We don't know enough about other strategic magicians to know if someone else has that level of destructive power, but nobody else thus far can do that. Now, if we're talking about things like versatility and magic diversity, then Miyuki, Juumonji, Lina, and Mayumi all are more skilled. But none of them have a magic powerful enough to match the destructive potential of Material Burst.

[somerand]

Originally Posted by tigerdave

In terms of strength, Juumonji and Miyuki are not in Tatsuya's tier. Tatsuya can blow up an entire nation if he so chooses, maybe even more. We don't know enough about other strategic magicians to know if someone else has that level of destructive power, but nobody else thus far can do that. Now, if we're talking about things like versatility and magic diversity, then Miyuki, Juumonji, Lina, and Mayumi all are more skilled. But none of them have a magic powerful enough to match the destructive potential of Material Burst.

Material burst can't be used on a battlefield.... On any battlefield or in any one on one fight Miyuki/Lina are at least in the same league as him.