Gundam Reconguista in G - Anime General Discussion

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

Different circumstances may be more or less believable though. White Base didn't have any capable pilots and Amuro was the only one who could do anything with the Gundam.

Whereas Lacus just gives a billion dollar prototype machine with a technology that if fallen to enemy hands would cause thousands of nukes to be launched at PLANT to a random enemy kid that she had only previously interacted with for a few hours.

Except Amuro had to learn to pilot the Gundam and there were other people who could've learned to pilot it as well. Also, Kira is no random enemy kid as his intention and skill is readily apparent to Lacus.

At the end of the day, both Bright and Lacus entrusted Amuro and Kira respectively with a powerful weapon regardless of the obvious risks, not to mention the fact that Lacus would likely not want the Freedom to be used by Zala either.

[aeriolewinters]

Bright was authorized to assigning the Gundam to Amuro, Lacus was not. There's a big difference

[monster]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Bright was authorized to assigning the Gundam to Amuro, Lacus was not. There's a big difference

Legality is not an issue here.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by monster

Legality is not an issue here.

It's not legality. More like an issue of survival vs an issue of "what the hell are you doing". The White Base was in a desperate situation and Amuro WAS the only one who could pilot it. There was literally no time for anyone else to learn because they went from one attack to another. Whereas it's really hard to believe that there wasn't anyone else Lacus could have given the Freedom to. And even had she given the Freedom away she still had Justice to worry about. Anyway, it was just not a logical decision at all and risks really were much much worse

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

It's not legality. More like an issue of survival vs an issue of "what the hell are you doing". The White Base was in a desperate situation and Amuro WAS the only one who could pilot it. There was literally no time for anyone else to learn because they went from one attack to another.

There was certainly enough time to switch pilot the first time the White Base gained possession of the Gundam. Much of the earlier battles depended more on the Gundam's abilities anyway.

Whereas it's really hard to believe that there wasn't anyone else Lacus could have given the Freedom to. And even had she given the Freedom away she still had Justice to worry about. Anyway, it was just not a logical decision at all and risks really were much much worse

Taking the Freedom away from Zala was just a bonus. The point was to empower Kira to do what he wants to do to protect his friends. Also, she likely knew that Justice was intended for Athrun, so giving the Freedom to Kira was also a great way to have Athrun rethink his mission while being in the possession of the Justice.

And no, the risk wasn't much worse because Kira + Freedom made a very powerful combination.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by monster

There was certainly enough time to switch pilot the first time the White Base gained possession of the Gundam. Much of the earlier battles depended more on the Gundam's abilities anyway.

If you actually think about the situation, not at all. They were in a battle for survival. The whole crew is a bunch of trainees and civilians. The most senior officer was Bright, who was 20 years old. The only one with any experience piloting was Ryu, who had 6 hours on a simulator.

Who in this crew is going to volunteer and say, "Hey, I've never piloted a mobile suit before, but I feel like I am better than Amuro and I should be pilot, just because I say I am"? And who's going to listen to him/her in a life/death situation where the choice of pilot can lead to the death of everyone in the crew? We've seen from what happened to Sayla that not everybody is capable of piloting the Gundam. And by the time they got to Earth Amuro had too many hours of piloting under his belt for them to switch him out anyway.

Taking the Freedom away from Zala was just a bonus. The point was to empower Kira to do what he wants to do to protect his friends. Also, she likely knew that Justice was intended for Athrun, so giving the Freedom to Kira was also a great way to have Athrun rethink his mission while being in the possession of the Justice.

And no, the risk wasn't much worse because Kira + Freedom made a very powerful combination.

Umm... OK. Just read that to yourself and see if that makes sense. If you can't do that, then consider this situation:

Say hypothetically You're a good-hearted and responsible army general who unfortunately is disenfranchised with your command, but got captured by an enemy, some enemy sixteen year old civilian kid for some reason or other comes and rescue you. You think that guy is a great kid, you think he has true potential and that he does the right things...

So... the next time you see him, you give him the most powerful war machine in your possession and tell him to take it away and do whatever he wants with it, just because you're pissed with your leaders??? Does that make a lick of sense at all? They are so much other things you can do to help him out than to give him a weapon that can cause the death of billions of people!! And guess what, in Lacus's situation, it almost did, since the N-Jammer tech got out and almost got PLANT wiped out!

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

If you actually think about the situation, not at all. They were in a battle for survival. The whole crew is a bunch of trainees and civilians. The most senior officer was Bright, who was 20 years old. Who in this crew is going to volunteer and say, "Hey, I've never piloted a mobile suit before, but I feel like I am better than Amuro and I should be pilot, just because I say I am"? And who's going to listen to him/her in a life/death situation? We've seen from what happened to Sayla that not everybody is capable of piloting the Gundam. And by the time they got to Earth Amuro had too many hours of piloting under his belt for them to switch him out.

Ryu at the beginning, and then any other replacement afterward.

Umm... OK. Just read that to yourself. Your an army general disenfranchised with your command, but got captured by an enemy, some enemy sixteen year old civilian pilot comes and rescue you. You think that guy is a great kid, you think he has true potential.

So... the next time you see him, you give him the most powerful war machine in your possession and tell him to take it away and do whatever he wants with it??? Does that make a lick of sense at all? They are so much other things you can do to help him out than to give him a weapon that can cause the death of billions of people!!

Except Kira isn't someone to cause the deaths of billions of people, and Lacus knows that.

And guess what, in Lacus's situation, it almost did, since the N-Jammer tech got out and almost got PLANT wiped out!

Which has nothing to do with her actions one way or another.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by monster

Ryu at the beginning, and then any other replacement afterward.

Except Ryu refused to pilot the Gundam, and deferred to Amuro. That was covered. And even Ryu never piloted a mobile suit before, unlike Amuro.

Except Kira isn't someone to cause the deaths of billions of people, and Lacus knows that. Which has nothing to do with her actions one way or another.

You're missing the super obvious point, which is that if Kira took the MS back to the EA, or gets captured by them, and the EA gets the N-Jammer Canceller tech, then they would launch nukes at PLANT. That leads to death of billions.

Anyway, we're way off topic. Never my intention to drag out this argument and it's obvious that you're kind of putting your bias ahead of logic here. I am sure others here will agree.

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

You're missing the super obvious point, which is that if Kira took the MS back to the EA, and the EA gets the N-Jammer Canceller tech, then they would launch nukes at PLANT. That leads to death of billions.

You missed the super obvious point that Lacus knows Kira wouldn't allow that to happen.

Originally Posted by brightman

it's obvious that you're kind of putting your bias ahead of logic here.

Not bias, just what the show tells us.

The problem is Skye629 made a generic judgment call without acknowledging the circumstances presented in the shows.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by monster

You missed the super obvious point that Lacus knows Kira wouldn't allow that to happen.

And how does she know? Just by talking with the guy for a couple of hours or days? You actually think that's smart, or normal?

[Rising Dragon]

Kira's just one person. The EA just needs to wait to detain him and then rip apart the Freedom for its technologies, while he's powerless.

Lacus knows that Kira wouldn't willingly hand over the data, but there are so many ways that what she did could blow up in her face, ways that Kira could possibly do nothing about. After all, she had no way of knowing he'd defect from the EA afterwards--all she knew is that she was handing over an incredibly powerful and dangerous ZAFT weapon to an EA pilot, who was going to use it to save other EA members from ZAFT.

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

And how does she know? Just by talking with the guy for a couple of hours or days? You actually think that's smart, or normal?

And talking to Athrun who knew Kira. And yes, talking to him for days and seeing him at the Archangel is enough for her.

Is it enough for anyone else? Maybe not, but we're not talking about anyone else.

[Rising Dragon]

Of course we're not talking about anyone else. We're talking about a woman who, in this specific instance, showed herself to basically be highly intelligent and incredibly stupid.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Kira's just one person. The EA just needs to wait to detain him and then rip apart the Freedom for its technologies, while he's powerless.

Lacus knows that Kira wouldn't willingly hand over the data, but there are so many ways that what she did could blow up in her face, ways that Kira could possibly do nothing about. After all, she had no way of knowing he'd defect from the EA afterwards--all she knew is that she was handing over an incredibly powerful and dangerous ZAFT weapon to an EA pilot, who was going to use it to save other EA members from ZAFT.

No, Lacus also knows that Kira wasn't returning to the EA.

[Rising Dragon]

No, she doesn't. There was nothing in any of those scenes indicating he was defecting--only that he wasn't going to blindly follow orders anymore.

EDIT: This should be taken to the SEED thread, or start tying it back into the original comparison to G-Reco.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

No, she doesn't. There was nothing in any of those scenes indicating he was defecting--only that he wasn't going to blindly follow orders anymore.

Which effectively means he's deserting. It's one thing to not blindly follow orders when the Archangel was on its own. After the Archangel has rejoined the EA, it would be foolish to rejoin them with a NJC-equipped mobile suit.

EDIT: Hi, sorry, if you want, we can continue in the SEED thread.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

EDIT: This should be taken to the SEED thread, or start tying it back into the original comparison to G-Reco.

Well, G-Reco-wise, the main character actually is a pilot training cadet, and is one of the only guys in the world who can pilot the G-Self... So its not going to be that big of an issue, I guess.

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

Well, G-Reco-wise, the main character actually is a pilot training cadet, and is one of the only guys in the world who can pilot the G-Self... So its not going to be that big of an issue, I guess.

Ooh, there's a requirement for piloting it?

Also, I believe, according to the translation in ANN, the main character felt connected somehow to the mobile suit. I'm not sure I'm liking that element.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by monster

Ooh, there's a requirement for piloting it?

Also, I believe, according to the translation in ANN, the main character felt connected somehow to the mobile suit. I'm not sure I'm liking that element.

Yeah, it's supposed to only be operable under certain conditions but the main character was able to start it up.

Not the first time its happened in a Gundam show though... It was the same with Kira and the Strike in the beginning of SEED.

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

Yeah, it's supposed to only be operable under certain conditions but the main character was able to start it up.

Not the first time its happened in a Gundam show though... It was the same with Kira and the Strike in the beginning of SEED.

Oh yeah, I must've overlooked that sentence. I guess I was more concerned about the following parts in bold:

Originally Posted by ANN

Beruri, who joins the battle in the maintenance mobile suit Rekuten, successfully captures the G-Serufu. However, Beruri feels something for the space pirate girl named Aiida Reihanton who piloted the G-Serufu. It is the same feeling he has for G-Serufu, even though he supposedly never seen it before. The G-Serufu, which should only be operable under specific conditions, is somehow started up by Beruri.

The objective of Aiida and the space pirates who attacked the Capital Tower, and the fate followed by Beruri who was chosen by G-Serufu, will lead to truths that will shake the entire Regild Century era.