Shin High School DxD Volume 3 Discussion

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

The only people on Issei's team that would be on Kuisha's level outside of Issei is Roseweisse and maybe Roygun because of her ability and experience. What's more, Grayfia isn't competing anymore so now they lost a Maou class devil which is a huge blow to the team's fighting power. Ingvild will likely replace Grayfia and she has no combat experience so now Issei's team is now weaker.

Ravel is a fragile tactician when you consider how strong the competition is. Ravel is not even Ultimate devil class. Riser lost to CxC in DX1 and this was after Riser started training and before Issei reached Maou class so Ravel would be consider fragile.

Vali's team uses proper formation and teamwork. This was explained in volume 24. They don't just do whatever they want like Typhon's team.

I never said the other teams doesn't have weaknesses. I'm aware that no team is perfect but just making a point that Issei's team more weaknesses than most teams in the top 16.

Your not doing a very good job of making it, the majority of what your saying doesn't make much sense. Too many support types what the hell are you talking about? Without Issei, his team in general aren't that strong? I can't even begin to explain how much is wrong with this statement. Everyone on Isseis' team is ultimate class level outside of Ravel and Elemhilde. Rossweisse and Xenovia have weapons that enable them to fight Gods. You also didn't explain what makes Vali a competent leader, Vali didn't put them in those positions they did that themselves so what are you talking about? In volume 24 it said specifically he allows his team to do they want to? Issei's team having the most weakness is just wrong you couldn't be more wrong I could name 2 teams with more

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

Your not doing a very good job of making it, the majority of what your saying doesn't make much sense. Too many support types what the hell are you talking about? Without Issei, his team in general aren't that strong? I can't even begin to explain how much is wrong with this statement.

How many support types does Issei's team have? Asia(because of healing), Elmenhilde (mainly useful for surveillance), Ravel (Issei's tactician). That's 3 support types. Also considering Ingvild has no combat experience but can boost Issei's power, that makes her the 4th support type. So Issei has 4 support types members which is too much.

Issei's team really isn't that strong without Issei. Take away Issei and you also take away Ddraig. What's left? A bunch of high devil class fighters with few ultimate class fighters. None of which are even Maou class and no god class fighter. Sure you have Asia but her role is mainly for support. Coupled with the list of weaknesses they have, the team isn't that much.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

How many support types does Issei's team have? Asia(because of healing), Elmenhilde (mainly useful for surveillance), Ravel (Issei's tactician). That's 3 support types. Also considering Ingvild has no combat experience but can boost Issei's power, that makes her the 4th support type. So Issei has 4 support types members which is too much.

Issei's team really isn't that strong without Issei. Take away Issei and you also take away Ddraig. What's left? A bunch of high devil fighters with few ultimate class fighters. None of which are even Maou class and no god class fighter. Sure you have Asia but her role is mainly for support. Coupled with the list of weaknesses they have, the team isn't that much.

You didn't see whats wrong with anything you said? If the team is without Issei then that means they lost anyway he's the King. So how can they be without Issei Outside Ravel and Elemhilde everyone else is ultimate level and they have broken abilities so that doesn't really hurt that much, also I just said Xenovia and Rose have weapons that allow them to fight Gods so you may want to go back and do some reading. Secondly who are you to say 3 or 4 support types are too much? He has 11 team members, 12 if you count Ddraig that 9 fighters. Issei team is one of the more balanced teams, everyone is versatile and can take on many roles. All of the support types have other roles as well, Asia can summon Fafnir that can fight and put up barriers that can defend against gods, Elemhilde can drink blood and gain the ability from that person's blood, Ingvild can fight just because she doesn't have combat experience doesn't mean all she can do is support? Bal and his team didn't have much experience and they did just fine by just being crazy strong. You think to basic can't so the forest for the trees, your list of weakness is super trash lets not use that. I knew you were off from a couple of days ago, I see you went completely off the rails now. It may have sound good in your head, but then you put it out and you sound crazy.

[XFire]

"Issei's team isn't that strong"

Lol wut?

Asia's barrier is basically invincible and she's the ultimate healbot, and she comes with Fafnir. Who fought and injured Crom, literally the strongest person in the tournament (except maybe that one super devil dude)

Xeonvia is literally invincible and her destructive power is at least on the level of CxC Issei

Rose is at least Maou-class at this point with her new staff.

Roygun was able to stop attacks from a freaking top ten level fighter

Where are you looking that you think Issei's team is weak?

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

You didn't see whats wrong with anything you said? If the team is without Issei then that means they lost anyway he's the King. So how can they be without Issei Outside Ravel and Elemhilde everyone else is ultimate level and they have broken abilities so that doesn't really hurt that much, also I just said Xenovia and Rose have weapons that allow them to fight Gods so you may want to go back and do some reading. Secondly who are you to say 3 or 4 support types are too much? He has 11 team members, 12 if you count Ddraig that 9 fighters. Issei team is one of the more balanced teams, everyone is versatile and can take on many roles. All of the support types have other roles as well, Asia can summon Fafnir that can fight and put up barriers that can defend against gods, Elemhilde can drink blood and gain the ability from that person's blood, Ingvild can fight just because she doesn't have combat experience doesn't mean all she can do is support? Bal and his team didn't have much experience and they did just fine by just being crazy strong. You think to basic can't so the forest for the trees, your list of weakness is super trash lets not use that. I knew you were off from a couple of days ago, I see you went completely off the rails now. It may have sound good in your head, but then you put it out and you sound crazy.

Well actually Xenovia is the only one that has a weapon that allows her to fight gods. Rossweisse's Mistelteinn wand is used by gods and greatly boosts her magic but it hasn't been proven that Rossweisse can fight gods with the increase in magic the wand gives her. And Brynhildr wasn't god-class as she was worth only one knight in the tournament as a god/god-class being is worth two.

But otherwise, you're spot on.

Yes, I have a problem.

@Xfire When was it ever stated or proven that Xenovia's destructive power is on the level of Issei's CCQ? That would make her power Maou-class as Issei in CCQ is Maou-class.

When was Rossweisse ever proven to be Maou-class with her Mistelteinn wand?

[Parry999]

Ravel is most likely ultimate-class after Shin 2 remember Koneko is stronger then Kuroka now.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

I'm curious how Issei's team would deal with Diehuaser team. People don't realize that Issei's team (while strong) has many weaknesses. In fact, I would say out of all the teams in the top 16, his team has if not the most weaknesses.

Its the unknowns that are going to give him the advantage. Ingvild can power up Issei. I suspect he will get another peerage member in vol 3. Both would be unknowns to Diehauser. When Diehauser has no info on Issei's peerage, he will have a harder time planning on what will come.

[XFire]

@Lucidrago the part where her Cross x Crisis does more damage to Strada then his cannon blast?

And the part where her magic is stronger than the strongest Valkyrie. Who is in fact literally called a God when Issei says "everyone.on the other team is made up of Gods".

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Well actually Xenovia is the only one that has a weapon that allows her to fight gods. Rossweisse's Mistelteinn wand is used by gods and greatly boosts her magic but it hasn't been proven that Rossweisse can fight gods with the increase in magic the wand gives her. And Brynhildr wasn't god-class as she was worth only one knight in the tournament as a god/god-class being is worth two.

But otherwise, you're spot on.

Yes, I have a problem.

@Xfire When was it ever stated or proven that Xenovia's destructive power is on the level of Issei's CCQ? That would make her power Maou-class as Issei in CCQ is Maou-class.

When was Rossweisse ever proven to be Maou-class with her Mistelteinn wand?

Rossweisse can create seals and barrier to stop a being stronger than gods before she got the wand. So yeah she can fight Gods with the wand. I didn't say it put her at a god level, that's why reading is important

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

You didn't see whats wrong with anything you said? If the team is without Issei then that means they lost anyway he's the King. So how can they be without Issei Outside Ravel and Elemhilde everyone else is ultimate level and they have broken abilities so that doesn't really hurt that much, also I just said Xenovia and Rose have weapons that allow them to fight Gods so you may want to go back and do some reading. Secondly who are you to say 3 or 4 support types are too much? He has 11 team members, 12 if you count Ddraig that 9 fighters. Issei team is one of the more balanced teams, everyone is versatile and can take on many roles. All of the support types have other roles as well, Asia can summon Fafnir that can fight and put up barriers that can defend against gods, Elemhilde can drink blood and gain the ability from that person's blood, Ingvild can fight just because she doesn't have combat experience doesn't mean all she can do is support? Bal and his team didn't have much experience and they did just fine by just being crazy strong. You think to basic can't so the forest for the trees, your list of weakness is super trash lets not use that. I knew you were off from a couple of days ago, I see you went completely off the rails now. It may have sound good in your head, but then you put it out and you sound crazy.

You're not getting it. Issei himself is majority of his team's power because he's the only God class and he can summon Ddraig. No one else on his team is even Maou class now that Grayfia is gone. Bova is not Ultimate devil class and his performance in the games has been pitiful despite being Tannin's strongest kid. Ingvild (who will likely replace Grayfia) also isn't Ultimate devil class because she lacks combat experience. The reason Black Satan Team did so well is exactly like you said. They are crazy strong. 2 Super Devils (one having the potential to reach Dragon god level) while 2 more being Maou class. This team completely stomped Mahabali's team.

@Xfire Yes Asia is strong with her healing and defense but her main role is support. Her being on the frontline as a fighter to hold off Com only happened because the circumstances demand it. Also I wouldn't say Crom is the strongest. We don't know how strong that 2nd Super Devil is and Indra could he stronger than him.

Xenovia is considered an annoyance because of that sheath but in terms of overall battle power she's below Maou class. Yeah, her Cross× Crisis is strong but she can only use that attack once since it drains a lot of her stamina.

Nothing really proves Rossweisse is at Maou class even with the wand. The strongest Valkyrie wasn't god by the way because she was only worth 1 knight piece. Issei was just being dramatic because there were multiple gods on that team. It doesn't mean every since member were gods because you would say the Valkyrie Squad (those 4 weak Valkyrie who was only worth 2 pawn pieces) and the dragon King would be gods.

Roygun's performance against Typhon was impressive but Typhon was merely toying with her and her group. Remember that she can taken out in seconds by 3 fighters weaker than Typhon in the match afterward match.

I didn't say Issei's team is weak but not that big of a deal compared to other teams in the top 16 because Issei himself is majority of the team power. He has no only God class or Maou class fighter besides himself since Grayfia was gone. Let's look at some other teams. Vali's team, even without Vali you have a top 10 monster like Fenrir and then you Arthur, who's regarded as the strongest swordsman in the current generation. Bikou rivals that of a dragon king. Rias team has Crom and Strada and they are self-explanatory, Kiba's is also self-explanatory. Everyone else except for Valarie is Ultimate devil class. Cao Cao has a god on his team and 2 Longinus users. And I don't even need to go on when it comes to the god teams.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

You're not getting it. Issei himself is majority of his team's power because he's the only God class and he can summon Ddraig. No one else on his team is even Maou class now that Grayfia is gone. Bova is not Ultimate devil class and his performance in the games has been pitiful despite being Tannin's strongest kid. Ingvild (who will likely replace Grayfia) also isn't Ultimate devil class because she lacks combat experience. The reason Black Satan Team did so well is exactly like you said. They are crazy strong. 2 Super Devils (one having the potential to reach Dragon god level) while 2 more being Maou class. This team completely stomped Mahabali's team.

@Xfire Yes Asia is strong with her healing and defense but her main role is support. Her being on the frontline as a fighter to hold off Com only happened because the circumstances demand it. Also I wouldn't say Crom is the strongest. We don't know how strong that 2nd Super Devil is and Indra could he stronger than him.

Xenovia is considered an annoyance because of that sheath but in terms of overall battle power she's below Maou class. Yeah, her Cross× Crisis is strong but she can only use that attack once since it drains a lot of her stamina.

Nothing really proves Rossweisse is at Maou class even with the wand. The strongest Valkyrie wasn't god by the way because she was only worth 1 knight piece. Issei was just being dramatic because there were multiple gods on that team. It doesn't mean every since member were gods because you would say the Valkyrie Squad (those 4 weak Valkyrie who was only worth 2 pawn pieces) and the dragon King would be gods.

Roygun's performance against Typhon was impressive but Typhon was merely toying with her and her group. Remember that she can taken out in seconds by 3 fighters weaker than Typhon in the match afterward match.

I didn't say Issei's team is weak but not that big of a deal compared to other teams in the top 16 because Issei himself is majority of the team power. He has no only God class or Maou class fighter besides himself since Grayfia was gone. Let's look at some other teams. Vali's team, even without Vali you have a top 10 monster like Fenrir and then you Arthur, who's regarded as the strongest swordsman in the current generation. Bikou rivals that of a dragon king. Rias team has Crom and Strada and they are self-explanatory, Kiba's is also self-explanatory. Everyone else except for Valarie is Ultimate devil class. Cao Cao has a god on his team and 2 Longinus users. And I don't even need to go on when it comes to the god teams.

No you don't get it your wrong flat out and there no help for you it seems, your starting point is stupid Issei is the KING do you understand if he isn't there that means he was eliminated. And that means they lose because if the KING is eliminated your team loses very basic and simple concept so what the hell are you talking about with out him the team is weak you can't gauge that because they can't compete without him. So how is that a weakness they can't compete in the tournament without Issei.

Bova is Ultimate class level he would be low tier, Nakiri is high tier plus it's been stated Bova was ultimate class look it up. Your right Ingvild isn't ultimate devil class, because she Maou class who are you to say because she lacks combat experience what class she in, when in the story it was stated her power is stronger than Maou class? You just said the Satan Black Team have 2 Maou class people on their team, you consider them maou class even though they would be the same as Ingvild little to no combat experience, what in the hell are you talking about???

Your wrong on every level of your arguement its not even funny how wrong, misinformed, or uninformed you are. I really can't even with you it's too much, do you even read the story how can you be this basic? You can't even properly guage Issei's team powers and abilities to even make any logical arguement which is why you sound crazy. I already told you quit while your behind you keep falling. It's obvious you don't know what your talking about, its so many holes with everything your saying. You realize Nakiri power would also rival a Dragon King as well right? You know Fafnir has the power level of a god when he protecting Asia right, read the current chapters its there. I can't believe your this basic to just go off power levels, especially in this tournament not accounting for matchups, abilities, weapons, etc. You couldn't be more wrong. You usually make decent points I'm disappointed ��

Look I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you, I've pretty much written a book report on how wrong you are and how basic you been. My suggestion go back and read the story, start from the beginning take your time make a chart to gauge everyones powers, abilities, and weapons and account for all that before you agrue. That stuff your talking about makes no sense.

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

I'm curious how Issei's team would deal with Diehuaser team. People don't realize that Issei's team (while strong) has many weaknesses. In fact, I would say out of all the teams in the top 16, his team has if not the most weaknesses.

Option 1: Issei or Ddraig just oneshot Diehauser, in terms of raw power they are much stronger than him. This of course would be anticlimatic and it's not going to happen.
Option 2: Issei is cornered due to Diehauser's worthless ability that nullifies his trump cards and superior tactics. At the last moment, he develops a new ability that Diehauser cannot nullify (worthless isn't automatic success if he doesn't understand how the ability works) and wins. It's typical for Issei (or shounen protagonists in general) but also very similar to what we got in the fight against Vidar.
Option 3: like 2, but Issei's power up comes from Ingvild's song. This would have the advantage of giving her some needed development and spotlight.
Option 4: like 2, but Issei wins at the last moment by relying on his intelligence rather than brute strength, be it devising a good team tactic or finding and exploiting a weakness in Diehauser's team. Bonus points if this happens after Ravel is retired. This would have the advantage of showing the growth of Issei not only in his power but also in experience and leadership.

[Dark soul]

Diehauser can't nullify penetrate because during his fight again Ise he dodged every time Ise use it

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

No you don't get it your wrong flat out and there no help for you it seems, your starting point is stupid Issei is the KING do you understand if he isn't there that means he was eliminated. And that means they lose because if the KING is eliminated your team loses very basic and simple concept so what the hell are you talking about with out him the team is weak you can't gauge that because they can't compete without him. So how is that a weakness they can't compete in the tournament without Issei.

Bova is Ultimate class level he would be low tier, Nakiri is high tier plus it's been stated Bova was ultimate class look it up. Your right Ingvild isn't ultimate devil class, because she Maou class who are you to say because she lacks combat experience what class she in, when in the story it was stated her power is stronger than Maou class? You just said the Satan Black Team have 2 Maou class people on their team, you consider them maou class even though they would be the same as Ingvild little to no combat experience, what in the hell are you talking about???

Your wrong on every level of your arguement its not even funny how wrong, misinformed, or uninformed you are. I really can't even with you it's too much, do you even read the story how can you be this basic? You can't even properly guage Issei's team powers and abilities to even make any logical arguement which is why you sound crazy. I already told you quit while your behind you keep falling. It's obvious you don't know what your talking about, its so many holes with everything your saying. You realize Nakiri power would also rival a Dragon King as well right? You know Fafnir has the power level of a god when he protecting Asia right, read the current chapters its there. I can't believe your this basic to just go off power levels, especially in this tournament not accounting for matchups, abilities, weapons, etc. You couldn't be more wrong. You usually make decent points I'm disappointed ��

Look I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you, I've pretty much written a book report on how wrong you are and how basic you been. My suggestion go back and read the story, start from the beginning take your time make a chart to gauge everyones powers, abilities, and weapons and account for all that before you agrue. That stuff your talking about makes no sense.

Let me put this in a way for you to understand. The problem with Issei's team is it's power is focused around 2 to 3 members with Issei being majority of it because his ability to summon Ddraig. That's a fatal weakness. It's like having a team in a pokemon game with Pokémon being a level of 99/100, one at 80 and the other 4 at level 10-15. meanwhile your going up against a team of 2 level 95, and 4 level 80-85. Coupled with Issei's inexperience of being a king that makes it a huge problem. A weak king with strong supporting pieces is much more powerful than a strong king with weak supporting pieces. It's chess 101, which is also true for basically everything. As we saw in the Azazel cup his abilities as a king are low since he just became one. His leadership skills leaves a lot to be desired.

Where was it states Bova was Ultimate devil class? All I've seen was Bova was the strongest of Tannin's children and his performance in the games were laughable. Nakiri is someone I can believe is Ultimate Devil class as his skills and performance in the tournament has proved it. Despite the lopsided rivalry between him and Bova, we all know who's superior between the two.

Ingvild was just stated to have the aura of Maou class but that doesn't make her Maou class in battle power. She has never been in a fight and she has that sleeping disease which is a glaring weakness. Why do you think Issei and Ravel didn't put her on the team in Shin Volume 2 despite her having more potential than Grayfia? Because her lack of combat experience as well as her sleeping weakness would just be a huge burden. The 2 Maou class devils on Black Satan has actually been in fights and together with the 2 Super Devils, they completely demolished Mahabali's team.

You can get mad if you want but I'm just stating the obvious. People have been overestimating Issei's a lot lately.

[Lex79]

I disagree, if anything the fights between Rias and Vali and Rias and Issei showed us that no matter how powerful your team mates are, if the king isn't strong enough you are at a disadvantage.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

Let me put this in a way for you to understand. The problem with Issei's team is it's power is focused around 2 to 3 members with Issei being majority of it because his ability to summon Ddraig. That's a fatal weakness. It's like having a team in a pokemon game with Pokémon being a level of 99/100, one at 80 and the other 4 at level 10-15. meanwhile your going up against a team of 2 level 95, and 4 level 80-85. Coupled with Issei's inexperience of being a king that makes it a huge problem. A weak king with strong supporting pieces is much more powerful than a strong king with weak supporting pieces. It's chess 101, which is also true for basically everything. As we saw in the Azazel cup his abilities as a king are low since he just became one. His leadership skills leaves a lot to be desired.

Where was it states Bova was Ultimate devil class? All I've seen was Bova was the strongest of Tannin's children and his performance in the games were laughable. Nakiri is someone I can believe is Ultimate Devil class as his skills and performance in the tournament has proved it. Despite the lopsided rivalry between him and Bova, we all know who's superior between the two.

Ingvild was just stated to have the aura of Maou class but that doesn't make her Maou class in battle power. She has never been in a fight and she has that sleeping disease which is a glaring weakness. Why do you think Issei and Ravel didn't put her on the team in Shin Volume 2 despite her having more potential than Grayfia? Because her lack of combat experience as well as her sleeping weakness would just be a huge burden. The 2 Maou class devils on Black Satan has actually been in fights and together with the 2 Super Devils, they completely demolished Mahabali's team.

You can get mad if you want but I'm just stating the obvious. People have been overestimating Issei's a lot lately.

Dude I understand clearly trust I understand better than you and trust me i'm not mad, you being wrong doesn't effect my emotions , your logic leaves a lot to be desired as well, have a nice day you taken up enough of my time with this joke of a discussion. I could keep going but why, your lost in the forest. You have eyes go reread, its all in the manual.

[Crimson_Emperor]

Nah..... Another closeminded hater

[TheWu8128]

He's very closed minded, especially if you base everything in this series off power

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

Dude I understand clearly trust I understand better than you and trust me i'm not mad, you being wrong doesn't effect my emotions , your logic leaves a lot to be desired as well, have a nice day you taken up enough of my time with this joke of a discussion. I could keep going but why, your lost in the forest. You have eyes go reread, its all in the manual.

You can think whatever you want but I accept your concession.

[Parry999]

Ingvild is undebatablely maou class LOL. The only reason Asia isn't above maou class is because she has no attacks that's it.