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kuromitsu · 2016-06-21, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Of course you want to ignore that because you are morally bankrupt in being a fan of Windermere.

Oh you are using Earthling showing you hate Terrans or Earthers. When you happen to be one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

That is because you can't defend Windermerean beliefs without sounding ridiculous. Really have you read what you are writing lately?

Pointing out that Windermereans are only humans (er, sort of) and they have their own internal logic and justification for the things they do is not defending them. Also, this is fiction. We are allowed to explore different sides of fictional conflicts, even that of the bad guys, without supporting the same beliefs in real life.

Seriously, I really hope that we'll get that Windermere vs NUNS thread. I think there's a lot of interesting things to discuss in Delta, but not like this and with not this kind of general tone. Whoever pointed out that the tone in these threads is getting vicious is right, and I wish we could have discussions without that. (Or the trolling, which I have a feeling that at least some people here do...)

magnuskn · 2016-06-21, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

They are same on that account too though.

Maybe in fantasy moral relativism la-la land. But, so far in this show, NUNS hasn't killed anyone. Well, except the mind-controlled members who were forced to blow up civilians and comrades by the monsters from Windermere.

BetoJR · 2016-06-21, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Or the trolling, which I have a feeling that at least some people here do...

God, I seriously hope MOST people here are trolling. Some of the discussion here kinda scares me, actually.

Tenzen12 · 2016-06-21, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Maybe in fantasy moral relativism la-la land. But, so far in this show, NUNS hasn't killed anyone. Well, except the mind-controlled members who were forced to blow up civilians and comrades by the monsters from Windermere.

Did you forget about that big crater on Windemere

And now they are about kill around half of people on Ragna, just because they doesn't care.

magnuskn · 2016-06-21, 08:35

Actually we don't know who caused the crater on Windermere. We also don't know if all the talk of the Windermerans about "unequal treaties" and so on isn't carefully edited misinformation from the Windermeran leadership. The deaths of the rebellion happened seven years before the show even started, so they don't count as having happened in the show. You might as well try to count deaths from the other Macross shows with that attitude.

And whatever to your fantasies of the destruction of the ruins killing "half the people of Ragna". Come back when it actually has happened.

Not to mention that the, definitely deplorable, behaviour from NUNS from this episode does not free Windermere from the crushing weight of their recent war crimes and acts of terrorism.

Tenzen12 · 2016-06-21, 08:58

Actually now I really hope Ragna will get liberated before that happens.

magnuskn · 2016-06-21, 09:01

"Liberated" from their own free will, children inclusive. Great.

Tenzen12 · 2016-06-21, 09:06

I am happy you can appreciate it too! It took long time but I am glad I finally convinced you about it being great.

***CrowKenobi*** · 2016-06-21, 09:26

Closing the thread for a bit because of the obvious off-topic. Will reopen it later today.

Thread reopened and use the newly created Macross Delta - Windermere/NUNs War Discussion thread for all war discussion going forward.

Father Hentai · 2016-06-21, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

She states immediately she has none of Hayate's talent (almost echoing Kawamori in this point). Whatever she'll achieve it'll be hard work rather than her skill. Hayate already flies better than she does and he's a total rookie.

Oh, is Hayate already flying better than Mirage? I tend to say they are equal but not better unless Freyja bolsters Hayate with her singing.

I recommend you to rewatch the first minutes of episode six because Messer exactly explains where the lacks of Mirage and Hayate are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

Looking back past romances in Macross, there was a reason they happened, but I don't feel there's need for romance to happen this time.

Are you sure you are watching Macross? Mechs and love triangle are part of the franchise.

Benigmatica · 2016-06-21, 21:10

Hmm, I think blowing up the Protoculture ruins at Ragna would be a good (if not being horrible) idea now that Windermere made a surprise attack, once the Macross Elysion left the planet. Sneaky bastards!

Karutaku · 2016-06-21, 22:19

I think Mirage is right when she says that she is not as naturally talented as a pilot as Hayate. That doesn't mean she's a worse pilot. It's just that she probably needs to work much harder to do the things that Hayate already can with his Siegfried.

To use tennis as an analogy, it's like the difference between McEnroe and Borg. McEnroe plays with flair and takes risks while Borg seems robotic and plays by the book. I'd say that McEnroe is more naturally gifted of the two but both have found success in their own ways.

As Messer (I think) explained, Hayate is unpredictable which keeps the enemies guessing but does he have the discipline to make full use of his talents? Remember, he pulled off the move in the mock battle with Mirage from just watching the mercat. I doubt that he practiced it before or even thought about whether a Valkyrie can actually pull it off, the G-forces involved, etc.

Mirage, on the other hand, seems like the type that would check and double-check all instruments before she takes off. And the way she flies will be by the book. In specific situations, she would respond according to what the manual taught her. Being too predictable will be fatal against a pilot like Keith. And it's probably inhibiting what natural talents she does have. Coupled with the Jenius name and everyone expecting her to be a prodigy, I can sympathize with her a bit. Maybe being in charge of not just herself but the whole Delta squadron in the air will help her grow.

magnuskn · 2016-06-21, 22:25

That reminds me of something my old karate trainer told me once, which is that things come easy to talented people, but they tend to burn out faster. While people who are not as good at something, but really dedicated to it, tend to work harder and more continuously at getting better.

ReddyRedWolf · 2016-06-22, 02:57

It's funny that Freyja was having a strange look when Hayate said to Mirage she has him just as he said he'll protect Freyja. On the other front he gave Mirage a hope spot then took it away mentioning Arad and Chuck. It feels like a friend zone. Freyja knows the feelings Mirage is having as she just felt it before. They are both professional but there is an undeclared rivalry between the two now. Hayate doesn't have a clue about it.

View Poll Results: Macross Delta - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10	3	13.04%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	7	30.43%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	5	21.74%
7 out of 10 : Good	4	17.39%
6 out of 10 : Average	3	13.04%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	1	4.35%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

2016-06-21, 08:35	Link #225
magnuskn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 48	Actually we don't know who caused the crater on Windermere. We also don't know if all the talk of the Windermerans about "unequal treaties" and so on isn't carefully edited misinformation from the Windermeran leadership. The deaths of the rebellion happened seven years before the show even started, so they don't count as having happened in the show. You might as well try to count deaths from the other Macross shows with that attitude. And whatever to your fantasies of the destruction of the ruins killing "half the people of Ragna". Come back when it actually has happened. Not to mention that the, definitely deplorable, behaviour from NUNS from this episode does not free Windermere from the crushing weight of their recent war crimes and acts of terrorism. __________________

2016-06-21, 08:58	Link #226
Tenzen12 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	Actually now I really hope Ragna will get liberated before that happens. __________________ "I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)

2016-06-21, 09:01	Link #227
magnuskn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 48	"Liberated" from their own free will, children inclusive. Great. __________________

2016-06-21, 09:06	Link #228
Tenzen12 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	I am happy you can appreciate it too! It took long time but I am glad I finally convinced you about it being great. __________________ "I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)

2016-06-21, 09:26	Link #229
*CrowKenobi* One PUNCH! Administrator Join Date: Dec 2005	Closing the thread for a bit because of the obvious off-topic. Will reopen it later today. Thread reopened and use the newly created Macross Delta - Windermere/NUNs War Discussion thread for all war discussion going forward. Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2016-06-21 at 13:04.

2016-06-21, 21:10	Link #231
Benigmatica Deadpan Rambler Join Date: Nov 2012	Hmm, I think blowing up the Protoculture ruins at Ragna would be a good (if not being horrible) idea now that Windermere made a surprise attack, once the Macross Elysion left the planet. Sneaky bastards!

2016-06-21, 22:19	Link #232
Karutaku Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2014	I think Mirage is right when she says that she is not as naturally talented as a pilot as Hayate. That doesn't mean she's a worse pilot. It's just that she probably needs to work much harder to do the things that Hayate already can with his Siegfried. To use tennis as an analogy, it's like the difference between McEnroe and Borg. McEnroe plays with flair and takes risks while Borg seems robotic and plays by the book. I'd say that McEnroe is more naturally gifted of the two but both have found success in their own ways. As Messer (I think) explained, Hayate is unpredictable which keeps the enemies guessing but does he have the discipline to make full use of his talents? Remember, he pulled off the move in the mock battle with Mirage from just watching the mercat. I doubt that he practiced it before or even thought about whether a Valkyrie can actually pull it off, the G-forces involved, etc. Mirage, on the other hand, seems like the type that would check and double-check all instruments before she takes off. And the way she flies will be by the book. In specific situations, she would respond according to what the manual taught her. Being too predictable will be fatal against a pilot like Keith. And it's probably inhibiting what natural talents she does have. Coupled with the Jenius name and everyone expecting her to be a prodigy, I can sympathize with her a bit. Maybe being in charge of not just herself but the whole Delta squadron in the air will help her grow.

2016-06-21, 22:25	Link #233
magnuskn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 48	That reminds me of something my old karate trainer told me once, which is that things come easy to talented people, but they tend to burn out faster. While people who are not as good at something, but really dedicated to it, tend to work harder and more continuously at getting better. __________________

2016-06-22, 02:57	Link #234
ReddyRedWolf Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	It's funny that Freyja was having a strange look when Hayate said to Mirage she has him just as he said he'll protect Freyja. On the other front he gave Mirage a hope spot then took it away mentioning Arad and Chuck. It feels like a friend zone. Freyja knows the feelings Mirage is having as she just felt it before. They are both professional but there is an undeclared rivalry between the two now. Hayate doesn't have a clue about it.