Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei novels have been licensed by Yen Press

[Blonddude42]

Originally Posted by expertsource

guys, if yenpress start from volume 1 and releases 1 novel every 4 months that is mean, we can read volume 15 (4x15=60) 60 months later, means 5 years later. is that right?
if it is right, we have to wait 5 years to read volume 15

But if they keep that rate after 7 years (total, not in addition) we would be only 1 novel behind. This assumes 1 new volume every year.

I bet it will be more like 1 translation every 6 months and about a year and a half per new volume. Which means 7.5 years until we get volume 15 and 10.5 years until 1 volume behind. I have nothing to base these rates on but I am trying to keep my expectations down.

[Jiminy]

As long as I find a decent summary somewhere I can wait that long .
Well who knows what I will do in 7 years anyway - probably aliens hunting in Roswell or alternatively becoming a venal official. So you see I might have other things to do than waiting for Tatsuya to graduate from high school. Oh god, I'm no good fan of the series

Oh by the way be happy if they only mess with the honorifics. If've seen series where they started to change character names as well.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Jiminy

As long as I find a decent summary somewhere I can wait that long .
Well who knows what I will do in 7 years anyway - probably aliens hunting in Roswell or alternatively becoming a venal official. So you see I might have other things to do than waiting for Tatsuya to graduate from high school. Oh god, I'm no good fan of the series

Oh by the way be happy if they only mess with the honorifics. If've seen series where they started to change character names as well.

Ah, Tokyopop, you still live within our hearts...and whoever's doing Detective Conan.

The new rallying cry: "You think losing honorifics is bad? This could be the story of Terrence and Milicent (Milly) Shiba!"

[fsck]

Originally Posted by Blonddude42

But if they keep that rate after 7 years (total, not in addition) we would be only 1 novel behind. This assumes 1 new volume every year.

I bet it will be more like 1 translation every 6 months and about a year and a half per new volume. Which means 7.5 years until we get volume 15 and 10.5 years until 1 volume behind. I have nothing to base these rates on but I am trying to keep my expectations down.

you can probably learn to read Chinese before they catch up to the newest volume.

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by Rasen

I think the number of people who will be so offended they choose not to buy (which is a subset of the people who have read fan-translations) will be less than the people who will take offense at being given a crash-course in Japanese culture minus the explanations.

It's a math problem.

The people who like anime > are familiar with Japanese honorifics > Have read MKnR fan translations > Love the unspoken intricacies of honorifics > refuse to buy because of a lack of honorifics

versus

People who are willing to read a book with anime art > do not understand honorifics > do not want to learn (because MKnR sure isn't going to teach them)

When a book keeps throwing terms at you that you don't understand, (The average English speaker MAY know "san" and that's it) it gets irritating fast. And people who are irritated don't tend to buy the rest of the books.

Originally Posted by Rasen

We aren't. But that's my point. We already self-selected ourselves to be more open and aware of Japanese culture. (Which I suspect is why Yen Press manga has honorifics)

But potential readers of light-novels may not have that mindset. And that's a concern for publishing companies. (Which is why Yen Press Light Novels do not have honorifics)

I really can't come to agree with that. People wishing to read Japanese books without wanting to learn the bare minimum about their culture? HAH, a straight punch right at the middle of their face would be well deserved for being this lazy.

I say, there's no meaning in bringing LNs to English if you're completely destroying the culture presented inside that book in the process.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Ophis

I really can't come to agree with that. People wishing to read Japanese books without wanting to learn the bare minimum about their culture? HAH, a straight punch right at the middle of their face would be well deserved for being this lazy.

I say, there's no meaning in bringing LNs to English if you're completely destroying the culture presented inside that book in the process.

First, if losing honorifics and the many, many, many, many ways Japanese people address their relatives is the only thing that distinguishes Japanese culture from ours (thus completely destroying the culture presented), then their culture really isn't that unique to begin with.

(Incidentally, I think one might be able to argue that instead of honorifics, Americans achieve a similar level of meaning in the use of nicknames and the way we say them. It's just that intonation doesn't transfer easily to the written word. Think of the many ways you've heard the endearment "Sweetie")

Second, this is America, land of the intellectually lazy and blind to what is past our borders. If a company is not trying to make money off them, it's not going to last long. So... whether you agree with it or not is not going to change what happens and why it happens.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Rasen

First, if losing honorifics and the many, many, many, many ways Japanese people address their relatives is the only thing that distinguishes Japanese culture from ours (thus completely destroying the culture presented), then their culture really isn't that unique to begin with.

(Incidentally, I think one might be able to argue that instead of honorifics, Americans achieve a similar level of meaning in the use of nicknames and the way we say them. It's just that intonation doesn't transfer easily to the written word. Think of the many ways you've heard the endearment "Sweetie")

Second, this is America, land of the intellectually lazy and blind to what is past our borders. If a company is not trying to make money off them, it's not going to last long. So... whether you agree with it or not is not going to change what happens and why it happens.

The Harry Potter books have many British words and slang (I needed to look up what the heck are trousers,for example ),but it didn't make me enjoy the books less.And U.S translated manga's usually had a page and a half of a honorific dictionary,and if people are actually too lazy to read something that'll take them only a few seconds to read and understand,they don't have the right to read non-american fiction

Anyway,too bad Yen Press doesn't have digital,I may have to pay a small fortune to have books delivered to my country (too bad I'm too old to ask relatives in the U.S for LN's as Christmas or birthday gifts

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

The Harry Potter books have many British words and slang (I needed to look up what the heck are trousers,for example ),but it didn't make me enjoy the books less.And U.S translated manga's usually had a page and a half of a honorific dictionary,and if people are actually too lazy to read something that'll take them only a few seconds to read and understand,they don't have the right to read non-american fiction

I'm going to say that's a poor comparison for two reasons:

First, British words and slang are English. They're part of the English language, and you can find their definitions in any English dictionary. (In fact, if you reader older "American" writings, I guarantee you they used the word "trousers." Heck, go visit a Southern state. They probably still use "trousers.") Unlike Japanese honorifics and the many different layers. For instance, "trousers" do not have hidden layers of meanings and implications, unlike Miyuki's "Oniisama." A more apt comparison would be "trousers" and "sushi." There's no subtext to sushi.

Second, publishers had enough of a poor opinion of American readers that they changed it from the Philosopher's Stone to the Sorcerer's Stone.

Also, yeah, that's a great business strategy. "We want to make our customer base smaller. We don't want to expand business and make more money, we want to exclude people!" You know how companies make money when they have smaller customer bases? They charge more. You want to buy a $25 for translated LN?

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Rasen

I'm going to say that's a poor comparison for two reasons:

First, British words and slang are English. They're part of the English language, and you can find their definitions in any English dictionary. (In fact, if you reader older "American" writings, I guarantee you they used the word "trousers." Heck, go visit a Southern state. They probably still use "trousers.") Unlike Japanese honorifics and the many different layers. For instance, "trousers" do not have hidden layers of meanings and implications, unlike Miyuki's "Oniisama." A more apt comparison would be "trousers" and "sushi." There's no subtext to sushi.

Second, publishers had enough of a poor opinion of American readers that they changed it from the Philosopher's Stone to the Sorcerer's Stone.

Also, yeah, that's a great business strategy. "We want to make our customer base smaller. We don't want to expand business and make more money, we want to exclude people!" You know how companies make money when they have smaller customer bases? They charge more. You want to buy a $25 for translated LN?

My opinion about the HP books of course is for someone who has English-as a 2nd language person thing But my point is that a dictionary like page of Japanese honorifics can easily fix that language/culture barrier and I mean manga's used to be published in the U.S left-to-right until someone decided that flopping the art does a dishonor to the artist and started publishing manga in the "right way" of right to left and added a page of a Japanese honorifics dictionary.And I do think only those that religiously read manga/watch anime would probably buy LN's anyway

[ProxyAccount]

Flipping art is obnoxious for other reasons... it's like looking at art through a mirror. Left becomes right and right becomes left.

Yes, a simple dictionary of terms is not uncommon (as is translator notes). Many English-language novels dealing with detailed subjects or a complex, writer-created world include maps and a dictionary of terms.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

My opinion about the HP books of course is for someone who has English-as a 2nd language person thing But my point is that a dictionary like page of Japanese honorifics can easily fix that language/culture barrier

I will contest this point.

Imagine this dictionary entry for "Oniisama" that TRIES to capture all the "cultural" subtext:

"Oniisama -

1. extremely respectful way to address one's older brother. Does not get used too often in modern day. Unless by a person with a proper upbringing. Except not always.
2. Also used to address an older friend.
3. Or friend of same age who is an older brother of someone else.
4. Or friend of same age who is greatly respected, but also close like family
5. Or friend of older age who is greatly respected, but also close like family.
6. Or if you're mocking him for being addressed that way by someone else.
7. Or if his younger siblings have a brother complex
8. Or if he in an extremely doting older brother.

"
Now imagine a similar entry for EVERY honorific in EVERY dialect, because of all the glorious hidden subtext. For just honorifics, you could be printing out dozens of pages.

And I do think only those that religiously read manga/watch anime would probably buy LN's anyway

And what do you base that on? Because Westerners don't read books with pictures? Or have books for young adults?

Again, no company is going to WILLINGLY choose to sell LESS books.

[ProxyAccount]

It's not necessarily an "either/or" proposition. Sci-fi/fantasy authors will often have setting-specific titles and honorifics (e.g. CJ Cherryh's long-running Foreigner series). As such, it doesn't appear that mainstream fiction publishers feel that the introduction of 'foreign' words is detrimental to sales. If anything, it's part and parcel of establishing the world in which the story takes place.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by ProxyAccount

It's not necessarily an "either/or" proposition. Sci-fi/fantasy authors will often have setting-specific titles and honorifics (e.g. CJ Cherryh's long-running Foreigner series). As such, it doesn't appear that mainstream fiction publishers feel that the introduction of 'foreign' words is detrimental to sales. If anything, it's part and parcel of establishing the world in which the story takes place.

That depends. I haven't read CJ Cherryh's books, but do the foreign words they use carry any of the "subtext" that the people on this board are complaining about losing? Or are they basically 1-to-1 translations of something else?

Like the typical use of "-san" as the equivalent of "Mister"?

[ProxyAccount]

They carry subtext. There are honorifics for family, lords, intimates, lovers, and so forth, as well as when they should or should not be used. There are greetings, social conventions, etc. The writer puts a short dictionary in the books (two or three pages), as well as a map of the world.

Subtext is very important to the story--the main character is a diplomat/translator.

There are honorifics akin to -san. The honorific used is dependent upon relative social standing and age. There are children in the story and this comes up a number of times.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by ProxyAccount

They carry subtext. There are honorifics for family, lords, intimates, lovers, and so forth, as well as when they should or should not be used. There are greetings, social conventions, etc. The writer puts a short dictionary in the books (two or three pages), as well as a map of the world.

Subtext is very important to the story--the main character is a diplomat/translator.

There are honorifics akin to -san. The honorific used is dependent upon relative social standing and age. There are children in the story and this comes up a number of times.

That's actually quite interesting sounding. I may look into those books later. Especially as it seems like the book takes the effort to educate the readers. (Does the author try to integrate the lessons into the story itself, or do they leave it to the readers to read the dictionary?)

I'm also curious, are there as many variations for what is fundamentally the same word, only with differing levels of respect or dialects, and does the author take the time to explain the differences? Like:
"ani, aniki, aniue, anisama, anchan, onii, oniisama, oniichan, oniisan, nii, niichan, niisan, niisama, niiya " etc.

[ProxyAccount]

Originally Posted by Rasen

That's actually quite interesting sounding. I may look into those books later. Especially as it seems like the book takes the effort to educate the readers. (Does the author try to integrate the lessons into the story itself, or do they leave it to the readers to read the dictionary?)

The story is usually told from the perspective of the main character and he explains the subtext when it is first introduced to the reader, with occasional reminders. The introduction in the first few books give a bit of background on the story and culture.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by ProxyAccount

The story is usually told from the perspective of the main character and he explains the subtext when it is first introduced to the reader, with occasional reminders. The introduction in the first few books give a bit of background on the story and culture.

I did a quick search on wiki about the books, and I might argue that part of why the author gets away with this is because they made it the central theme of the book: different cultures and how cultural misunderstandings lead to problems. As you said, the main character is a diplomat, and this is their bread and butter.

Put another way, this is a book for those who find the clash of cultures interesting, and would like to read/learn more.

Whereas, let's be honest, Mahouka is not. Many (I suspect most) do not read Mahouka for its spot-on impression of Japanese society (because it's not), or even a foreign society.

They read it for the magical world (where the books spends its times explaining the mechanics of), or because of Zombie Jesus Tatsuya may be one of the most broken mortal characters of all time, and his ridiculously beautiful sister who has inappropriate feelings for him but is so HNNNNNG about it.

The foreign culture in Foreigner is the magic system in Mahouka.

[ProxyAccount]

There are two foreign cultures in MKnR: Japan and Magicians.

The writer doesn't try to explain Japan because he's operating under the assumption that the reader is Japanese and therefore understands the cultural context. Can a person read Mahouka without understanding Japanese culture to some degree? Sure, but that causes the reader to miss some of the cultural references. For example, what is indicated by the usage of the first name? How does Hayama's usage of -dono indicate a very different attitude than Aoki's? What's going on regarding the rapid adoption of the usage of first names by the students that would become the Shiba siblings's inner circle of friends? Why does Mikihiko react strongly to Erika's calling him "Miki"?

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by ProxyAccount

There are two foreign cultures in MKnR: Japan and Magicians.

Yes, but no one reads it for its "accurate" portrayal of Japanese culture.

It's really less Japanese culture (if you put aside the honorifics), and more a culture built around the development of magic. Which applies to the entire world of Mahouka.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Yes, but no one reads it for its "accurate" portrayal of Japanese culture.

It's really less Japanese culture (if you put aside the honorifics), and more a culture built around the development of magic. Which applies to the entire world of Mahouka.

You could also take it as a satire of japanese culture which i do sometimes. There were a lot of funny parts in MKnR to me since i understood the context of it.