Macross Delta - Windermere/NUNs War Discussion

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Oh man... You might want to look up sarcasm in the dictionary.

And you might stick with "hipocrisy", because it is staring at you in the mirror.
But, whatever. Since you don't take the discussion as a serious conversation anyway, I'm done with you. Plonk.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Being a sovereign world exiting the NUN would be easy however benefits of NUN membership would be taken away. Not unlike the exit of Britain from the EU. Windermere would have to renegotiate for their economy not to crash. War would not to be the first response naturally unless they do not have patience for it and try to brown beat the NUN through force.

Windermere is expecting quid pro quo in duties protecting the cluster from threats like Lost Zentradi. This is still 2058 whether Aerial Knights prevailed in the operation and no consequences we won't know till future chapters.

The Delta glossary on Dimension Weapons does mention Gallia 4 or Gaul 4. Frontier TV event of Grace controlling the Vajra leading to a galaxy wide invasion likely happened. As said Windermere expects quid pro quo in mutual defense. They likely asked NUNS for help but considering every planet and fleet in the NUN is besieged NUNS can't send reinforcements.

Gramia is probably mad that Macross Galaxy threatened his planet.

If Wings of Goodbye event happened in some way he'd be angry likely that the NUN can send a combined fleet to assist Frontier while Windermere has to fend for itself.

There is a reason why emigrant fleets like Frontier and planets like Ragna contract PMCs to supplement their local NUNS forces. You can't always expect reinforcements to come. Windermere however being of knight traditions wont hire mercenary companies to fight for it out of pride.

[magnuskn]

Oh, unless the Windbags have another export than apples, one idol singer and , they are fucked economically after this war. Who will ever eat a Windermere apple again after it becomes widespread knowledge that it induces VAR syndrome if you drink the wrong kind of water?

That is, btw, another reason why Windermere would be after conquering the Starwind sector.

As for mercenaries, wasn't Dick Johnson one, hired by the crown to instruct Gramia and cohorts?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

As for mercenaries, wasn't Dick Johnson one, hired by the crown to instruct Gramia and cohorts?

Instructor for fleet battles according to Ernest. Gramia s not very good at it when he was his student. As Ernest said Gramia wont involve outsiders to fight on his side. This being out of knightly pride.

[magnuskn]

Alrighty then, did get the details wrong.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Sorry, but the sudden backtracking some people do on "Nobody defended Windermere" is ridiculous and, again, playing with semantics. Yes, some of you guys defended their actions, called the killed civilians "fodder" and outright declared that NUNS was at fault when the evidence was extremely flimsy.
[/B].

I don't know if I used as strong term as fodder , but... yeah that's pretty much what civilians are. War without civil victims simply doesn't exist. So just fact they do say nothing about anyone morality.

As for NUNS, there is not even single person that would declare it was definitely their fault (that's just your imagination),. Sure people did repeatedly pointed at that possibility.

Well regardless, pretty much both manga and anime confirm there is lot of blame on NUNs side too.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

Whom they deemed traitor immediately and tried to kill everytime? A girl that only wanted to sing and be the bridge for her people yet that warrant her to be killed?

It was only Bogue who doomed her as a traitor. Roid saved her for whatever purpose.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Oh, unless the Windbags have another export than apples, one idol singer and face penises, they are fucked economically after this war. Who will ever eat a Windermere apple again after it becomes widespread knowledge that it induces VAR syndrome if you drink the wrong kind of water?

They can export to planets without ruins. Then the apples are more or less harmless.


They have a 500.000 year old intact protoculture ship and as well have the experimental data on controlling Var. From military and scientific aspect, this is a lot.

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

It was only Bogue who doomed her as a traitor. Roid saved her for whatever purpose.

.....Keith did too.
And to be honest their opinion on her being a traitor is actually understandable even without all the information.... Now saying this doesn't mean I agree with, it's just given the rage and attitudes of the aerial knights it's easy to see and understand from an emotional point of view....
Another thing is with what the NUG guy just pulled didn't exactly make her decision to join the Walkure (in their eyes) any better.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

They can export to planets without ruins. Then the apples are more or less harmless.


They have a 500.000 year old intact protoculture ship and as well have the experimental data on controlling Var. From military and scientific aspect, this is a lot.

The prologue where a guy with who ate an apple was on an emigration ship not a planet.

Actually they should be worried about the last not analyzed 30% as the Protoculture do have AI. Altira in DYRL had a computer AI. Rax's ruin had an AI which recognizes mixed blood as a password. The Bird Human has an AI programmed to wipe out Humans if they went into space warlike.

And they think they know the will of the Protoculture.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

Another thing is with what the NUG guy just pulled didn't exactly make her decision to join the Walkure (in their eyes) any better.

Walkure isn't with NUG, it's with Chaos. It's a private company hired right now by Ragna. Anyway, she's leveled up from traitor to "apple girl" to some of them.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Thess

Walkure isn't with NUG, it's with Chaos. It's a private company hired right now by Ragna. Anyway, she's leveled up from traitor to "apple girl" to some of them.

Refer to the first post regarding the NUN. While Chaos is private, they are still in a subsidiary relationship to the NUN. While the NUN do not own them directly, Chaos and by extension Delta, can only operate within the framework provided by the NUN.

- Tak

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tak

Refer to the first post regarding the NUN. While Chaos is private, they are still in a subsidiary relationship to the NUN. While the NUN do not own them directly, Chaos and by extension Delta, can only operate within the framework provided by the NUN.

- Tak

It's still independent, because they don't take orders of the central office. Like SMS, they can turn against them any minute (like SMS has on two occasions against your stereotypical evil NUN characters of the season). Mirage and Arad certainly specifically stated they used to work for NUN. You're seemly mistaking working with fleets and planets with NUN affiliation with their permission with actually being dependant of the central office. Like any security service needs permission from the police and other organisms to operate, but isn't relying on them for their orders.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Thess

It's still independent, because they don't take orders of the central office. Like SMS, they can turn against them any minute (like SMS has on two occasions against your stereotypical evil NUN characters of the season). Mirage and Arad certainly specifically stated they used to work for NUN. You're seemly mistaking working with fleets and planets with NUN affiliation with their permission with actually being dependant of the central office. Like any security service needs permission from the police and other organisms to operate, but isn't relying on them for their orders.

No, it means if NUN wants Chaos to go East, Chaos wouldn't go West. Chaos is an independent entity from the NUN as long as they fit within the framework of the NUN and the former's interests do not conflict with the NUN. Ragna hired Chaos for an extra measure of security, and this was permitted because it did not conflict with NUN interests. Once NUNs decided it should detonate a bomb beneth the ocean, they certainly expected Chaos to comply and GTFO.

When SMS turned against the NUN in Frontier, they've actually committed treason, this was acknowledged by Jeffrey.

- Tak

[ReddyRedWolf]

King of the Protoculture, Throne of the galaxy. It seems Gramia was mad Macross Galaxy tried to do it with a hivemind on all of them so he is out to do it himself. The NUN never claimed as such which is why it was decided it would decentralize. There are bigger fish out there and they recognize that. Zentrad fleets, Protodevlin, Vajra. Windermere also believes the Protoculture are dead. There is one Protoculture at Ouroboros who survived through cold sleep. Who is to say there aren't others out there as Earth was visited 10,000 years ago.

Gramia intended to unite the Children of the Protoculture through violence and enslavement under Windermere. It boils down to jealousy that Terrans started to unite the Children of the Protoculture through peace and love of culture.

Windermere messing around with something that transforms to a Vajra Queen form made by the Protoculture may be their undoing. The Bird Human when fully awakened took stock of the situation and decided Earth Humans were a danger to the universe. This was with a depressed Sara Nome. Heinz is in a dark place with his emotions that may doom his people if he isn't saved.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The Terrans are corrupted. You saw it yourself in this episode. The asshat from NUNS blew up the ruins just to get data and then ran away. He never cared about Ragna or Windermere or whatever. I bet NUNS are working together with Epsilon in the shadows.

Gramia knows Earth is full of assholes so they had to do this to get them out of the cluster. Of course now that Roid took command things might take a turn for the worse, as Roid is probably being manipulated by NUNS and Epsilon, who are the actual bad guys.

The logic here is rock solid . We see the corruption through the entirety of the Windermere military and royal family. While all we've seen is one corrupt official. There's nothing more than speculation that the NUNs are united on this subject and more likely with such a large organization that they aren't.

The cluster was perfectly fine until one side decided to use brainwashing and terrorism to get their hold over the cluster. Yay slavery.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

The logic here is rock solid . We see the corruption through the entirety of the Windermere military and royal family.

No we did not. There are hints that Roid might be corrupt but that's about it. Gramia and Keith show anger and hate, but that's a different matter.

While all we've seen is one corrupt official.

Who is actually the only character portrayed in a clear and unambiguous negative light. Furthermore, he came from Earth, so whatever evil agenda he has, it's quite possible Earth's agenda.

[AkitoW013]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

No we did not. There are hints that Roid might be corrupt but that's about it. Gramia and Keith show anger and hate, but that's a different matter.



Who is actually the only character portrayed in a clear and unambiguous negative light. Furthermore, he came from Earth, so whatever evil agenda he has, it's quite possible Earth's agenda.

Sheryl cames from Galaxy so she must be evil too right?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by AkitoW013

Sheryl cames from Galaxy so she must be evil too right?

You do realize that's opposite of what I said, right?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

You do realize that's opposite of what I said, right?

No he is pointing a flaw in your logic.