Mahouka [LN/M] - Character Speculation/Theories: Tatsuya

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by guestuser

i just want to ask if tatsuya was to become an other brother to any other character with similar age as him in this series will they turn out like miyuki with just a bit weaker brother complex

That would depend wouldn't it

Are they still part of the Yotsuba family? If so, they would probably end up just like miyuki
If not, well that's a whole different story now lol

[guestuser]

now this bring up another question i want to ask if tatsuya was Fumiya older brother will fumiya go yoai on tatsuya because as we seen he is getting closer to that level

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by guestuser

now this bring up another question i want to ask if tatsuya was Fumiya older brother will fumiya go yoai on tatsuya because as we seen he is getting closer to that level

I think it's been said he's not yaoi for Tatsuya he just admires him very much.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by guestuser

now this bring up another question i want to ask if tatsuya was Fumiya older brother will fumiya go yoai on tatsuya because as we seen he is getting closer to that level

So..... What emotion did he keep from the experiment? What magic did he inherit from mitsugu? And why does he need to go through the operation?

[guestuser]

Originally Posted by IceHism

So..... What emotion did he keep from the experiment? What magic did he inherit from mitsugu? And why does he need to go through the operation?

everything is the same except he will be his brother instead of miyuki so to sum it up fumiya will switch places with miyuki

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by guestuser

everything is the same except he will be his brother instead of miyuki so to sum it up fumiya will switch places with miyuki

Well I don't think there are any gay people in Mahouka so probably just a normal brother. Fumiya always was willing to see Tatsuya as a normal person unlike Miyuki so he will never have a brother complex.

[LKK]

The anime-only viewers' questions about the episode 9 scene with Aoki brought to mind a question that occurs to me every once in a while. How many people within the Yotsuba clan know the full extent of Tatsuya's powers? I can't remember if the novels said whether Aoki knows the truth or not. There are times when I wonder if Tatsuya's father knows how powerful his son is.

[Ravagerblade]

Anyone notice how clingy the girls are to Tatsuya? (the usual girls that is lol) It's like he's emitting some kind of pheromone lol.

[nosaer]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

Anyone notice how clingy the girls are to Tatsuya? (the usual girls that is lol) It's like he's emitting some kind of pheromone lol.

What else would you expect from his harem? They all want to have his babies lol. Tatsuya will oblige one day after he secures a better future for his magician children to ensure that they don't have to go to war and be weapons like him

[Jirachier]

btw Echizen777, when you were talking about Tatsuya not being able to penetrate Miyuki's magic defenses, to what chapter/volume were you refering to ?

Also what I really want to understand is the relationship between Tatsuya and his clan, it's so damn confusing that I have no idea how it works.
First we have Maya, the head of the clan, she doesn't even seem to hate him or anything of the sort and just sees him as a valuable tool that is also to be feared, but I don't feel any resentment from her.
The two cousins almost worship Tatsuya, but their father and leader of the Kuroba family is the only one along with Aoki-douche who show signs of animosity to Tatsuya, the first butler of the family as well as the underlings of Kuroba(who are probably actual members of the Yotsuba, not just guardians) even go as far as adding "dono" to Tatsuya's name.
And the most important question is, how much does anybody in the clan knows about Tatsuya's abilities ?

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

btw Echizen777, when you were talking about Tatsuya not being able to penetrate Miyuki's magic defenses, to what chapter/volume were you refering to ?

I never posted something like this.

[Jirachier]

Oh sorry, I just looked, it's guestuser2 that said that.

Many things here I disagree with. The only successful attacks against Lina all involved the CAD Trident. There is no mention in the novel of how high the magic power has to be, only that Tatsuya needs to focus his magic more to break through Miyuki's defense and even that might not work. And ancient magic has greater fire power than modern magic according to the novel. Yakumo was also stated to have phenomenal raw magic power in v3 when training Miyuki.

Same question but for Guest2 this time.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

Tatsuya being his best pupil mostly applies to martial arts if anything, ninjutsu has things such as illusions and stuff where Tatsuya isn't that good.

I agree. But you've missed my point that Ninjutsu is only a single ancient school of martial arts and magic. It was mentioned there were others besides Ninjutsu in v11. Tatsuya was already beating professional soldiers in martial arts before he met Yakumo as seen in v8, so he could very well be better than most. But the fact Tatsuya is one of Yakumo's favourite pupils only applies to Yakumo's school of Ninjutsu. It does not indicate Tatsuya has better martial art skills than Yanagi or Kazama, since that is only a single school of martial arts.

Originally Posted by Jirachier

And my point was that you're also speculating, the author said Tatsuya couldn't beat them without Trident but that is so vague that you can't draw any real conclusion from it, was the author talking about unsealed Tatsuya ? was he talking about a simple fight or a fight to the death where Tatsuya can go for the kill ?

It was pretty clear to me atleast and I don't see how it is vague. The only thing I did is point out what was written where Yakumo, Kazama and Yanagi are close combat magicians who we are told can beat Tatsuya. I do not understand why the seal or whether he is going for the kill should be relevant. The seal only reduces the potency of his innate magic and removing it does not give him a boost in close combat skills. And when Tatsuya wants to kill somebody he pulls out Trident and zaps them, he does not bother with CQC. I have only been discussing Tatsuya's magic CQC skills.
　
　

Originally Posted by Jirachier

The only times Tatsuya is ever arrogant is when his sister is concerned somehow, in every other instance he will show humility an undermine his abilities.

When people praise him he shows humility, yes. But none of the examples I previously gave had any humble statements by Tatsuya and only maybe 3 of the 12 examples were in direct response to Miyuki's welfare or feelings. Either way, my point still stands. Tatsuya is shown to always be confident in his ability to give a beat down, the only times he isn't is when he is comparing himself with a similarly powerful magician.
　
　
　

Originally Posted by Jirachier

How are his close combat options limited ? a friendly match against Tomitsuka(who is the only person in the entire universe that can block Tatsuya's decomposition magic(except for MB)) is the worse fight you can use as an argument. Against any other fighter in a serious fight he'd excel at it, in fact his magic is perfect for CQC, it's just that using a CAD increases its strength and is better to deal with multiple opponents and fight at long range.
They were hitting him with blades and bullets and he was just brushing them off, and tearing through the blades like butter, I have yet to see a better magic fit for CQC more than the combo of Regrowth/Decomposition.

You're missing the point. Whether he can kill or defeat his opponent easily with decomposition has no relevance to the example I used. His magic is perfect for any range, but in magic CQC fights you win using enhanced martial art or weapon strikes. Once you start vaporizing your opponent with magic it becomes irrelevant if you used a kick, a hand chop or your little pinky. His magic is that powerful. My point is Tatsuya's prefers long range magic over CQC and CQC magics. The example was to show he relies on his innate magic to overpower his opponent rather than using CQC.

Tatsuya excels at CQC, but he uses Trident, not for strength or multi-targeting, but for speed and counter-magic in the Tomitsuka fight and Yakumo CQC scenes. Cads are not designed to increase a spell's strength.

And Tomitsuka had a contact-type Gram Demolition that blocked Tatsuya's Decomposition counter-magic, so I believe Gram Demolition and psion bullets would also be able to cancel his decomposition. We already know regular cast jamming, area interference and data fortification can block his systematic decomposition, and thats why we always read about him getting rid of those first.
　

Originally Posted by Jirachier

The thing about Miyuki is only when he's not using Trident the spell.
As for Lina, he used Trident the CAD, not the spell, and just that was enough to hit Lina who has one of the most powerful magic power levels in the world. Yakumo has considerable magic power not on the same level, the reason for his prowess lies elsewhere. And when training Miyuki.

The Trident spell and the CAD are not really relevant. The original point I made was that normal counter magic could possibly protect an opponent against Tatsuya using just his arms to bisect them, and that Yakumo was stated to be a mage capable of producing impressive raw magic power. Its has not been mentioned how powerful he is in comparison, but if someone with less power like Shizuku can prevent Miyuki's magic, then it means it would be possible for some others to do the same against Tatsuya's. And that would explain why Tatsuya developed the Trident spell.

The novel stated Tatsuya put extra effort when breaking through Lina's defenses, even with her lying defenseless. In v11c12, Tatsuya and Lina had to narrow and focus their attacks to successfully attack within Miyuki's anti-magic zone.

[Jirachier]

Ugh this is getting confusing and I'm repeating myself but whatever.

I agree. But you've missed my point that Ninjutsu is only a single ancient school of martial arts and magic. It was mentioned there were others besides Ninjutsu in v11. Tatsuya was already beating professional soldiers in martial arts before he met Yakumo as seen in v8, so he could very well be better than most. But the fact Tatsuya is one of Yakumo's favourite pupils only applies to Yakumo's school of Ninjutsu. It does not indicate Tatsuya has better martial art skills than Yanagi or Kazama, since that is only a single school of martial arts.

First of all, I don't think ninjutsu in mahouka is used as a martial art but more as a category of magic, and Yakumo just uses martial arts in general without a specific name, but that doesn't really matter here. Kazama is a student of Yakumo which means he also studies the same thing as Tatsuya, if Tatsuya is number 1 then Kazama is definitely weaker, not to mention that regardless of what you want to name Tatsuya's martial arts be it Karate or Ninjutsu or whatever, Yakumo explicitely said that Tatsuya is better at pure martial arts than him, which leas to Tatsuya being better than Kazama/Yanagi since they're weaker than Yakumo.

It was pretty clear to me atleast and I don't see how it is vague. The only thing I did is point out what was written where Yakumo, Kazama and Yanagi are close combat magicians who we are told can beat Tatsuya. I do not understand why the seal or whether he is going for the kill should be relevant. The seal only reduces the potency of his innate magic and removing it does not give him a boost in close combat skills. And when Tatsuya wants to kill somebody he pulls out Trident and zaps them, he does not bother with CQC. I have only been discussing Tatsuya's magic CQC skills.

It is absolutely vague. First he said he can't beat them without using Trident, we don't know if he meant that without it he can't get a tie, not winning doesn't necessarily means losing. Also he said "beat", not "kill", which might very well be him talking only about a battle where he does not want to kill them, which is the same as having completely sealed his offensive decomposition abilities, in which case of course he wouldn't be able to win. Yes he might've meant "kill", but who can say for sure ?
Removing the seal must boost his innate magic somehow which in turn will grant him stronger CQC magic prowess. And if you're talking about just his CQC magic skill why are you talking about the part of him vs Yanagi/Kazama which was not just about that, did you interpret it as Tatsuya not being able to win in CQC and he needs to get a distance and use Trident to win ? Because that's not what it meant.

Tatsuya excels at CQC, but he uses Trident, not for strength or multi-targeting, but for speed and counter-magic in the Tomitsuka fight and Yakumo CQC scenes. Cads are not designed to increase a spell's strength.

I don't recall Tatsuya ever using a CAD in Yakumo CQC scenes. And the CAD when he fought against Tomitsuka was as much of an advantage as it was a handicap since he couldn't use both hands to attack.

And Tomitsuka had a contact-type Gram Demolition that blocked Tatsuya's Decomposition counter-magic, so I believe Gram Demolition and psion bullets would also be able to cancel his decomposition. We already know regular cast jamming, area interference and data fortification can block his systematic decomposition, and thats why we always read about him getting rid of those first.

Yes Gram Demolition would definitely work in theory against Tatsuya's decomposition. But it has a fatal flaw, the stronger the magic you're trying to stop the more psion it requires, that is why when Tatsuya fought Masaki he couldn't block all 14 hits at the same time with Gram Demolition, because each hit was powerful and there were even 14 of them. So really if Tatsuya ever faced a Gram Demolition user all he has to do is hit him with several Decomposition spells at the same time and Gram Demolition would become useless.
As for psion bullets, they can't stop him, even Gram Demolition would require a massive amount of psion to be able to stop a single decomposition spell, if you hit Tatsuya's magic with a tiny amount of psion his magic will just brush it aside.
The only things that can block Tatsuya's magics are counter magics(which in practice don't work against him) and hax abilities that were specifically made by the author to counter him thanks to some weird loopholes that don't even make sense.

The Trident spell and the CAD are not really relevant. The original point I made was that normal counter magic could possibly protect an opponent against Tatsuya using just his arms to bisect them, and that Yakumo was stated to be a mage capable of producing impressive raw magic power. Its has not been mentioned how powerful he is in comparison, but if someone with less power like Shizuku can prevent Miyuki's magic, then it means it would be possible for some others to do the same against Tatsuya's. And that would explain why Tatsuya developed the Trident spell.

If you're talking about Tatsuya only cladding himself in decomposition magic for CQC then yes sure, but only insanely powerful counter magics would be able to do the trick. Yakumo is a ninjutsu user/martial artist/ancient magic user, he's not someone who relies on that type of things nor excels at it.
Shizuku was able to do so when Miyuki had the seal in place which seals half her magic.
And yes that's why Tatsuya developed Trident, but those so-called magicians who can give him such a hard time are mostly ones like
Masaki/Lina and co, who are exceptionally powerful in modern magic, because they have really good data fortification and such, Yakumo is strong but his magic prowess lies elsewhere. And even Lina was hit with Tatsuya's decomposition, it's just really harder to do so with Mist Dispersion directly rather than Trident the spell but he was able to do so. And if he tries it with CQC it will be even easer(I don't remember the volume but it's in the vampire arc where it said that using magic on direct-contact with the target makes the magic more powerful)

The novel stated Tatsuya put extra effort when breaking through Lina's defenses, even with her lying defenseless. In v11c12, Tatsuya and Lina had to narrow and focus their attacks to successfully attack within Miyuki's anti-magic zone.

Yes because Tatsuya simply wasn't using Trident(the spell) which is a magic he made specifically to completely and utterly destroy a human body, Trident doesn't really have any counter except loopholes.

Originally Posted by Guest2

Many things here I disagree with. The only successful attacks against Lina all involved the CAD Trident. There is no mention in the novel of how high the magic power has to be, only that Tatsuya needs to focus his magic more to break through Miyuki's defense and even that might not work. And ancient magic has greater fire power than modern magic according to the novel. Yakumo was also stated to have phenomenal raw magic power in v3 when training Miyuki.

which vol/chap ?

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

Yes because Tatsuya simply wasn't using Trident(the spell) which is a magic he made specifically to completely and utterly destroy a human body, Trident doesn't really have any counter except loopholes.

I disagree here. Trident is just a spell in this case, the number wouldn't reduce the possibility for his spells to be nullified thanks to her Zone Interference but had he not been in a group fight, he could have used Gram Demolition or Gram Dispersion since they are not affected by Zone Interference.

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I disagree here. Trident is just a spell in this case, the number wouldn't reduce the possibility for his spells to be nullified thanks to her Zone Interference but had he not been in a group fight, he could have used Gram Demolition or Gram Dispersion since they are not affected by Zone Interference.

The point behind Trident is to destroy Zone Interference, then Data Fortification which will leave the body completely defenseless and then it will be destroyed by Decomposition. The only ways shown so far to be able to block it would be Phalanx, which honestly I still don't get how it can do so. And Tomitsuka which just so happens to be born with a defect specifically made to troll Tatsuya's powers and just happens to be in the same country, city, school AND school year.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

The point behind Trident is to destroy Zone Interference,

Yes, but the problem is that it would be very difficult for him to use his magic while in Miyuki's ZI which is also very large. ZI forbids any magic to be used excepted Miyuki's. Trying to use it would cause him too much trouble, it could even vanishes before attaining her but he can use Gram Demolition and Dispersion without problems since they are not affected by ZI or DF.

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Yes, but the problem is that it would be very difficult for him to use his magic while in Miyuki's ZI which is also very large. ZI forbids any magic to be used excepted Miyuki's. Trying to use it would cause him too much trouble, it could even vanishes before attaining her but he can use Gram Demolition and Dispersion without problems since they are not affected by ZI or DF.

Gram Dispersion is affected by both, only Gram Demolition isn't.

And no, her ZI is powerful but this is kind of the same thing with Maya, if you want to completely shut down Tatsuya's decomposition then Miyuki needs to have superior mastery over decomposition than him which she doesn't have. More importantly I think that in reality while the seal restricts Miyuki by lowering her control over her magic by 50%(half her controled is tied to maintaining the seal, and that's why she was able to have more ease fighting Lina), the effect it has on Tatsuya seems to be more along the lines of blocking his raw magical prowess in decomposition. Even in Tatsuya's sealed state the best Miyuki can do is try and hope to lower the power of his magic, but that's the thing, the first stage of Trident will penetrate the Zone and then that's it, his magic will hit her at full power.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

Gram Dispersion is affected by both, only Gram Demolition isn't.

And no, her ZI is powerful but this is kind of the same thing with Maya, if you want to completely shut down Tatsuya's decomposition then Miyuki needs to have superior mastery over decomposition than him which she doesn't have. More importantly I think that in reality while the seal restricts Miyuki by lowering her control over her magic by 50%(half her controled is tied to maintaining the seal, and that's why she was able to have more ease fighting Lina), the effect it has on Tatsuya seems to be more along the lines of blocking his raw magical prowess in decomposition. Even in Tatsuya's sealed state the best Miyuki can do is try and hope to lower the power of his magic, but that's the thing, the first stage of Trident will penetrate the Zone and then that's it, his magic will hit her at full power.

Or she seals all of her magic and prevents Tatsuya from using his eyes which should make his decomposition useless

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Or she seals all of her magic and prevents Tatsuya from using his eyes which should make his decomposition useless

Which will turn Miyuki into someone who can't use magic at all and become the weakest character in the series, then Tatsuya can just punch her in the face and she'll die.