Madoka Magica - Movie 3 Spoilers and Speculations

[Haak]

So I finally watched the Rebellion film and...um...yeah...what the fuck? Bad end for Homura, I guess? And all because she can't cope with the loss of a loved one. Well I guess, when you suffer as much as she had done to save Madoka it might make you a bit unhinged, but I thought she took it pretty well in the ending to the TV series. Don't know what to make of that to be honest.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Haak

So I finally watched the Rebellion film and...um...yeah...what the fuck? Bad end for Homura, I guess?

This is interesting. Why do you think it's a bad end for Homura?

I can see someone considering it a bad end in general, but Homura ends the movie in a place of great power and control. Her long-held dream of securing Madoka into a normal human life has finally been achieved. And Homura arguably even managed to gain a measure of revenge on the Incubators in the process.

Now, there are potential downsides here for Homura. But "bad end for Homura" wasn't my initial response to this ending.


As time goes on, I've increasingly come to the perspective that this movie is largely a love letter to Homura fans. It has some tricks and treats for almost all Madoka Magica fans in general, but Homura is far and away the star of the movie, and what she accomplishes at the end certainly appears to be WINNING at a level that even Charlie Sheen would find hard to achieve.

[Haak]

I just felt that her last scene with Madoka was hinting that Madoka would eventually realise her true power and ultimately end Homura's world. I also thought the scene hinted that Homura wouldn't go down without a fight which can't end well for her if she's only taken on a small portion of Madoka's vast power.

Also, Homura may have gotten what she wanted but it seems like a hollow victory to me. Ultimately it's a facade and she's had to deceive the person she loves the most in the process. Homura is essentially living a lie and even if she gets away with it, it'll still be a lie. It'll never truly be what she actually wants because what she actually wants is simply impossible so she has to settle for a morally dubious artificial imitation.

And then there's a her eyes. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but she doesn't really look all that happy to me. To me she looks like she's forcing herself to be happy.

[Triple_R]

^ Those are fair points, and thanks for the reply. It's good to get a fresh perspective.

[LightDragonman]

So do you guys think the film is still good? This guy claims the film is complete and utter trash for reasons he outlines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8e9VMChl7M

[Akito Kinomoto]

I stopped taking it seriously at 'no context.' The concept of Homura actually being a witch or her most emotionally vulnerable state combined with the exploration of her character is pretty very heavily context. Complaining about the lack of 'natural life' from the cast ignores how the early part of the film shows us what they're like in less stressful circumstances, but still keeping in line with their duty. Otherwise, it just becomes pure fluff in a film with a story to tell.

That said, I will say Madoka, Mami, and Nagisa are the weak links to this film, with the former two for my money generally being not to the level of Homura, Sayaka, and Kyouko for the series proper, especially considering how integral Madoka is to, well, her own series. Nagisa...yeah no. I can generally overlook Madoka in the show because finding that motivation/wish was what she had to reach, but both the lack of context in the show's flashbacks and this film in regards to why she's a Magical Girl in 'normal' circumstances gets distracting and there's no sense of why she's there; like holy crap, I just realized even Mami is more developed than her in that regard.

And then there's that whole mess with the mechanics at the end. Something about the Incubators trapping a literal Goddess or a Goddess getting stuck in what is essentially her girlfriend's nightmare even before her girlfriend became the nightmare. This is honestly the only time in the film where I just tuned out because the whole thing was completely stupid.

Wow I went off more than I thought I would. But anyway, I can push off three characters and bad mechanics because most of the focus is thankfully on Homura's real-realization of depression. But this film really can't pretend it didn't trip up a few times and I'd hope Urobuchi had only improved. Now, barring a total overhaul of Madoka, Mami, and Nagisa, whatever comes next really has nothing left to explore but an eventual conclusion to this series. I really don't want to say this, but the worst thing about Rebellion is it's unnecessary.

You have a good thing going Urobuchi. Don't prove your critics right.

[LightDragonman]

Yeah, I admit Nagisa is a bit extraneous.

However, while the mechanics behind the whole Isolation Field are a bit farfetched, I personally loved the whole idea. It really was a trip through Homura's character, and we got to see more of what her motives and actions are. Heck, the whole thing being in a false reality (and ending in a new false one) really brings to mind some of my favorite movies (The Matrix, Dark City, Inception, Total Recall, etc).

[Szadek]

I don't really have the problem with the Isolation field,because the incubators are the ones that invented whatever device that turned Madoka into a god in the first place.
Which means we already know that they are cabale of creating the weirdest inventions ever.

As for the rest of the movie, Rebellion is probably the most exhausting movie I have ever seen.I had to rewatch it several time to come to a satisfying conclusion.
Was it worth it?Kind of,but it's not something I want to go through again anytime soon.
I hope whatever comes next will be much easier to stomach than this movie.

[LightDragonman]

It does require a lot of careful watching and analysis to fully understand.

Also, was anyone else reminded of The Matrix several times when watching it?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by LightDragonman

So do you guys think the film is still good? This guy claims the film is complete and utter trash for reasons he outlines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8e9VMChl7M

There's two, maybe three, points he makes that I agree with. I have to give him a fair bit of credit on the third point, because it's something I never thought much about before myself - but yeah, he has a point. The point I never thought about much before is the third point out of the three listed as follows:

1. Yeah, Nagisa is pretty blatantly a fanservice character. She exists largely due to the considerable popularity of a certain death scene in Episode 3 of the TV series. That scene effectively immortalized both Charlotte and Mami (ironic, isn't it?), and it left people wanting "more Charlotte". They also wanted to give Mami her own *hint, hint* yuri partner since a main cast of 5 tends to leave someone out in the cold. Now, this doesn't bother me, much, but I can see why it would some viewers.

2. I wouldn't say that Gen is 'black/white' in his thinking - That would require him showing a clear unambiguous preference between two options, and I don't think he ever truly does that. However, his themes can be a bit simplistic and binary. He's good at presenting two different, if not diametrically opposed, alternatives. And he's good at presenting them pretty fairly and transparently, which can make them excellent food for discussion. But he really struggles to either make a clear choice between them, or find a way to do a "thesis + antithesis = synthesis" with them. If this movie ever gets a direct sequel, it probably needs a writer capable of taking "Madokami" and "Akuma Homura" and finding some synthesis there.

3. For something so core to the movie and its narrative and its ideas, the relationship between Homura and Madoka is admittedly a bit weakly developed. At least in the sense of the two sharing scenes and dialogue together. SoL-style writing probably isn't one of Gen's strong suits, and it hurts his narrative a bit here. If you look at the relationships between the Madoka Magica main cast members, and compare them to the relationships between HTT members in K-On! and Muse members in Love Live!, there is a lack of depth that stands out for inter-relationships within "the Puella Magi Hony Quintet". Perhaps this movie would have been a bit better if certain scenes hadn't dragged on so long (the attempt to return to Kyouko's hometown, Kyubey playing a Bond villain, etc...), and the freed up time could have been devoted to showing the five girls (and Bibi) goofing off and having fun in the mall or singing karaoke or something where normal friendship and emotional bonds could come through a bit more easily.


Even with all of the above, though, I still think the following about this movie:

1. It is a fantastic piece of entertainment. Very visually vibrant and extremely exquisitely engaging. Homura vs. Mami is one of the best anime action scenes I've ever watched, and I also enjoyed the tense standoff with crisp dialogue in the scene between Homura and Sayaka that comes right after Homura vs. Mami.

2. The movie is well-paced, with many good twists and turns. The mood of the movie nicely aligns with Homura's own mood. Things start bright and cheerful while she herself is mostly bright and cheerful in joining with her new friends. Things get darker when Homura's mood gets darker. Very fitting.

3. I like how Kyubey was handled. His big scene did go on a bit long, but there was a good sense of dramatic timing in how they made the plot reveals related to his involvement in the movie and its plot.


On the whole, my opinion on the movie hasn't changed much from watching that YouTube vid. It does change my mind a bit about Homura/Madoka specifically, though. Yes, that probably could have been better-developed in the movie. In fact, if that had been more well-developed, I could imagine myself being more comfortable with the ending. Suppose there was a scene where Homura visits Madoka in Madoka's home, and sees firsthand how very cheerful and happy Madoka and her family are together. That could give some added weight and sense of justification to Homura's decisions in this movie.

[AuraTwilight]

I x'd out when he had negative things to say about Yuki Kajiura.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

However, his themes can be a bit simplistic and binary. He's good at presenting two different, if not diametrically opposed, alternatives. And he's good at presenting them pretty fairly and transparently, which can make them excellent food for discussion. But he really struggles to either make a clear choice between them, or find a way to do a "thesis + antithesis = synthesis" with them.

Have you watched Kamen Rider Gaim, might I ask?

[woxx]

still no official announcements except some bad 1st april trailer-preview
even last year joke was better
I'm more and more sure that Rebellion's sequel will never happen(not a joke)

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by woxx

I'm more and more sure that Rebellion's sequel will never happen(not a joke)

...Why? They've talked about it a few times when asked.

Give it time, if you want a quality sequel you're gonna have to wait.

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Originally Posted by woxx

still no official announcements except some bad 1st april trailer-preview
even last year joke was better
I'm more and more sure that Rebellion's sequel will never happen(not a joke)

Nah, it'll happen. Most of the guys of Magica Quartet/Shaft are presently busy with other projects. Trust me, they won't let PMMM go with the following it has.

Besides, they're constantly making new merchandise, if they weren't intending to make a sequel to Rebellion then they'd wind down merchandising, hell, they're probably making tons of moneyz from the merchandise and feel as though they'll string out the sequel longer just to capitalize on said merch.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Sayaka's sandbag

hell, they're probably making tons of moneyz from the merchandise and feel as though they'll string out the sequel longer just to capitalize on said merch.

This is exactly why they aren't doing a sequel yet. Merchandising is just as strong as ever, and that's where the real money comes from. There's a general ceiling when it comes to merchandising revenue, and a sequel would just revitalize that cash flow back to the ceiling.

In RPG terms, you don't use a phoenix down when you're still alive.

[Solace]

There's also the issue of how to continue the franchise. Whatever the next project is, it will most likely wrap up this part of the Madoka story. They have to figure out how to write that while leaving threads open for future content (in whatever form/media that ends up being).

[Sageblink]

Originally Posted by Solace

There's also the issue of how to continue the franchise. Whatever the next project is, it will most likely wrap up this part of the Madoka story. They have to figure out how to write that while leaving threads open for future content (in whatever form/media that ends up being).

Well, they can still adapt some manga footage (kazumi, etc) or just go for a story following previous magical girls. They can even do something featuring the new universe created by madoka at the end of the TV show...

[Triple_R]

There will probably be another Madoka Magica anime of some sort at some point, but it's possible it won't be a "direct sequel". It could be some sort of spin-off, or even a reboot like Rebuild of Evangelion.

I've come to terms with the idea that this movie might be the end for the original core canon narrative. If so, I don't consider that ideal, as I think it represents an inferior ending to the TV series ending, but it could be worse. The Rebellion ending has some good points to it.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Have you watched Kamen Rider Gaim, might I ask?

I missed this before, but no, I haven't watched it. Do you recommend it?

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Sageblink

Well, they can still adapt some manga footage (kazumi, etc) or just go for a story following previous magical girls. They can even do something featuring the new universe created by madoka at the end of the TV show...

I could see them doing a tv spinoff and a third Madoka movie to finish up the main plot.