High School DxD Light Novel - DX.4 (Volume 23.5)

[Darksider555]

Another interesting bit surrounding Ise Vs Saji is that Saji wasn't able to communicate with Vritra like Ise was able to communicate with Ddraig which gave Ise unique insight into the capabilities of his Sacred Gear. Plus Saji also lacked his Balance Breaker at that time.

If Saji wasn't implanted with other with other Vritra Sacred Gears, what kind of Balance Breaker do you guys do you think he would achive? It would no doubt be weaker.

[DragonOsman]

He would've gotten a Balance Breaker for just Absorption Line, obviously, and Vritra's consciousness wouldn't have been there.

[Lucidrago]

Well they probably don't understand how the king piece even works. Because it simply said a king piece could strengthen the king from 10 to 100 times. My impression is that it increases the demonic powers of the king. Because those that are born pureblood devils are born with demonic powers and some with unique abilities. Some are born with more talent AKA demonic powers than others. Some are blessed with Satan-class demonic powers like Grayfia, Diehauser, Serafall, Falbium, and probably Rias. Some were just born with an insane amount of demonic powers that far surpasses a Satan like Sirzechs, Ajuka, Rizevim, and probably Vali and Millicas. Those are very rare cases. And then there are those that are born high-class devils that get the short end of the stick like Sairaorg and are born with low-class demonic powers. That's a super-rare case. Because I would say the majority of high-class pureblood devils of noble origin are born with high-class demonic powers. And there are some that are born with Ultimate-class demonic powers. And then there are the rare cases that are born with Satan-class demonic powers. And it would be a super-rare case for a high-class pureblood devil of noble origin to not have at least high-class demonic powers, but it happens.

Now where does the king piece come in? The strength of these high-class pureblood devils come from their demonic powers they were born with and their unique abilities if they have one. A devil's unique ability(like POD, Worthlessness) is basically fueled by demonic powers. Some have greater demonic powers than others which is why it seems like they can use their unique abilities to such great effect. That's why Diehauser is described as the first monster from the House of Belial. Not because of Worthlessness. But because of his Satan-class demonic powers+Worthlessness. Worthlessness has existed far before Diehauser was born. Diehauser's able to use it to such great effects because of his immense demonic powers. Same with the Phenex and their regeneration. Same with the Baels and POD.

So with Bedeze Abbadon and Roygun Belphegor, they were most likely born with just high-class demonic powers and nothing more than that. They weren't blessed with an extraordinary amunt of demonic powers. They wanted to be able to compete with the 'monsters' in the Top 10, so they used the king piece to increase their demonic powers to Satan-class levels. Before getting the king piece, Bedeze couldn't use Hole the way he does now(or did). So for high-class pureblood devils it's their amount of demonic powers and unique abilities that determine their strength.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah. Great post.

I think I mostly agree, but I have to say something. I'm sure that even if Bedeze and Roygun couldn't have used their respective clan abilities as well as they did because of the King Piece if they didn't have the King Piece, I do think they would at least still have been able to use those abilities. Just at a lower level. I'm sorry, but the way you worded it made it sound like you doubted if they could use those abilities at all because their Demonic Powers weren't that high. If you didn't mean that, I'm sorry.

As for Sairaorg, yeah, he probably couldn't have used the King Piece at all anyway since he doesn't have any Demonic Power.

[Lucidrago]

Yeah sorry for wording it that way. That's what I meant. For example, when Sirzechs was fighting Crusuery Asmodeus and he used his POD to destroy Ophis' snake within Crusuery's body and his demonic powers just automatically weakened since the thing giving him those immense demonic powers was destroyed. Same would happen if the king piece was removed from a devil.

And I would say that Sairaorg could use the king piece and get the demonic powers worthy of a high-class devil. Since he barely has any demonic powers it would work. Well we have no idea what level of demonic powers the king piece would give him. But the king piece just wouldn't work on devils that have an evil piece inside them already or those devils that simply have too much demonic powers. And a speculation, but I think if you have something powerful within you like a Longinus with a Heavenly Dragon sealed within it, then getting a king piece would just be disastrous. Boosted Gear+King Piece+8 Mutation Pawn Pieces+Ophis' and Great Red's power=Disastrous situation which is most likely immediate death. Well it's not like Issei can get a king piece anyway. And with Regulus, it really isn't Sairaorg's Sacred Gear as it isn't bonded to his soul but simply an independent being who Sairaorg can use. Well Sairaorg is the possessor, but Regulus Nemea isn't bonded to his soul like Issei's Boosted Gear.

[DragonOsman]

It's been stated that Sairoarg has no Demonic Power, though. An extremely rare case among Devils. it's the reason why he has to rely on his own physical strength and touki. I'm not sure if the King Piece would work on someone like that.

As for Ise, the King Piece was already no good for him from the moment he was reincarnated, Boosted Gear or no. You stated the reason yourself: the King Piece won't work on someone that already has one or more Evil Piece(s) inside him/her.

[Lucidrago]

Every devil has demonic powers. Sairaorg just barely has any demonic powers. Which I speculate has never been seen among someone born amongst the 72 Pillars and Extra Demons. And that has never been seen before in the House of Bael. He was born with no Power of Destruction. And even if he had it, with his low demonic powers it's not like he could do anything with it. Sairaorg was supposed to be born with at least high-class demonic powers. But he was born with a very low amount of demonic powers.

[DragonOsman]

No, I'm pretty sure it said he has none. I'll bring you a quote if I can.

Edit: Well, I'll have to keep looking to find a quote that explicitly says that, if there is one, but for now, look at these:

Originally Posted by Volume 9 Life.1

"I have three weapons. Strongly built body, fast legs, martial arts—Here I come!"

Note: No mention of Demonic Power.

It's been implied even if it's not explicitly stated. I mean, why would he rely on only his body and physical attacks alone (along with the touki he built up himself) if he had even a bit of Demonic Power to train and use? It's been stated time and time again that he relies only on his own body and martial arts. No Demonic Power. And even if he has "barely any", it really means he doesn't have more than just a very small, puny amount, lower than a regular Low-class Devil's. It's so little that it's like it's not there, or it's really not there at all. One or the other.

[Lucidrago]

I saw the quote and then it said that he barely had any demonic powers in the next paragraph or two. Every devil has demonic powers. Even someone like Sairaorg although some might consider his demonic powers nearly nonexistent

Sairaorg-san was born of his father who is the head of the house of Bael and his mother who came from the noble house of Vapula.

It seems like people around them became overjoyed because the next heir was born.

But Sairaorg-san was faced with a shocking truth immediately.

-He has barely any demonic-powers, and he didn’t carry the special trait of Bael, the power of destruction.

Each generation of the head was blessed with demonic-powers, and it was absolute for them to have the power of destruction. But Sairaorg-san was born without it.

Sairaorg-san’s father who was in despair directed his anger to his wife.

[Where did you leave our clan’s power of destruction, and how did you give birth to such a defect!?]

-Defect.

Just because he was born without demonic-power and the power of destruction, Sairaorg-san was abandoned by his father. His mother who gave birth to him also was despised as well.

For a devil who barely has any demonic-power, they wouldn’t get treated well by others no matter where they go.

Even when he moved to the countryside, Sairaorg-san became the target of discrimination. Because he has less demonic-power than the low-class and medium-class devils his age, he was bullied by those devils.

All of those quotes come from Volume 10 Life 1. There was only one part that said Sairaorg had no demonic powers. For some devils, his demonic powers are nonexistent. He does have demonic powers, but barely. Every devil has demonic powers. Just different amounts. To his father, Sairaorg wasn't born with at least high-class demonic powers and wasn't born with POD which deemed him a failure in his eyes. So the little demonic power Sairaorg has could be counted as not having demonic powers.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah. The wording in Volume 10 is really confusing, but it does seem like he has "barely any". It's still too low to count, though. Even Ise has more than him.

[Sparda4]

Well at this point Sairaorg doesn't even want demonic power imo. He trained his body to extremes because he wanted to show that he will kick everyone's ass who looks down on him because he doesn't have the same amount of demonic power as the rest of the devil society.

[DragonOsman]

^True. And that just makes him all the more badass IMO. He's a great guy and a great rival (to Ise, of course (for the "rival" part)).

[Lucidrago]

Well I think Issei just has the demonic powers of an average low-class devil. Remember when he couldn't even teleport because his demonic powers were too low which was probably due to only one of Issei's pawn pieces' power being released due to how pathetic Issei was. I really don't think his demonic powers went up all that much due to the rest of his pawn pieces being released. Because even low-class devils with low-class demonic powers can cover their hand in aura and teleport through a magic circle. It's his Boosted Gear that has been increasing his demonic powers. Before he entered Balance Breaker, Issei had to wait and Boost a few times before he was able to do anything like fire off Dragon Shot and the like in a fight. And his Balance Breaker automatically boosts all his stats like his physical strength, speed, durability, and demonic powers way past what it normally is. So I would say regularly Issei has the demonic powers of an average low-class devil. And Sairaorg has even less than that.

[DragonOsman]

Probably, but I like to think that maybe Ise's Demonic Power is closer to a Mid-class Devil. I hope it's true. Ise's Demonic Power may have gone up from his Pieces mutating, after all. I know that Gasper's Demonic Power isn't that high even though he has a Mutation Piece, but still. [I mean, after all, it depends on your talent in Demonic Power and Ise's is really low. Asia's talent is greater, so her Demonic Power is a bit higher than average.] You'd think Ise would be a bit more talented in that area considering how it just requires imagination. You don't even need to be smart and/or good at math like with magic. Ajuka's the only one who modeled his Demonic Power closer to magic.

[Sparda4]

Well demonic power could be like a muscle. The more you use it and heavier the tax is on the reserves they might increase, but it is true with Issei the boosted gear plays a very big part in his demonic power. Wait a minute, can't Sairaorg use portals ?

[DragonOsman]

Sairoarg doesn't have that kind of Demonic Power ability. The one he could've inherited, he didn't (Power of Destruction). He did inherit the Vapula clan trait, but that's just the ability to tame lions (though it's useful since it did give him the Regulus Nemea).

I'm not sure how much Demonic Power can be raised through training. It probably can be, though. But if, even with all the training he does, Sairaorg couldn't raise his, then it might be impossible unless it depends on whether or not you actually try to raise it. Ise probably did, though difference isn't that much noticeable.

[Lucidrago]

I just believe that demonic powers is fixed when you are born or reincarnated as a devil. It never explicitly stated how much demonic powers the reincarnated devils have. But any devil can use a magic circle. That's one of the simplest things to do with your demonic powers and you really don't need a lot of demonic powers for that. Issei has the Boosted Gear, which is what raises his demonic powers. But still I believe Issei's base demonic powers is that of the average low-class devil. He even needs to boost the fire he creates within his stomach to use it when not in Balance Breaker state.

[DragonOsman]

I'm not sure if it's a fact, but what Hakaishin told me was that all reincarnated Devils generally receive Demonic Power at the level of a Low-class Devil, though there are exceptions where a reincarnated Devil has somewhat higher Demonic Power than that if they are talented (like Asia). But I just feel that Ise's Pieces mutating should've made it higher. So if it was that of an average Low-class Devil at first, after his Pieces mutated, it should've been raised to around Low- to Mid-class level, or maybe low-tier Mid-class or around there.

[Darksider555]

Depending on how they specialise their abilities, the amount of demonic power is determined by the reincarnated devils strength. For instance both Ise and Saji had low amounts of demonic power, so much so that Saji drained his own lifeforce to compensate in Gremory vs Sitri. Somelike, Kiba for instance has moderate amounts of demonic power; enough to create illusions but not offense demonic power. Akeno's Bishop aspect in her Queen piece + her Fallen angel status mean that her power is comparable to that of Rias who is a High Class devil.

But it's worth noting that training can improve the strength and amounts of demonic power reserves one can contain within themselves. But we've only seen this with Rias and Akeno. Ise did increase his demonic power at least to Mid Class devil but whether that was because his Evil pieces were unlocked or through training remains undetermined.

[Lucidrago]

All reincarnated devils start out as low-class devil. It doesn't mean they all have low-class demonic powers. I would say it varies from person to person upon being reincarnated. Like it varies among devils that are born devils.

And I don't think Rias increased her demonic power. Well she probably increased the demonic powers she can use at a time. She has immense demonic powers but she's still young. So she need time to hone and develop her demonic powers. She needs a lot of time to collect a huge amount of demonic powers like Extinguish Star which I speculate will get better in the future. I mean that the time it takes to collect and focus that amount of demonic powers will gradually reduce as Rias hones and develops her demonic powers through time. She already has an insane level of demonic powers but how much she can basically use in one attack is limited due to her inexperience and her young age. To use more powerful attacks she needs to collect a huge amount of demonic powers. Someone like Sirzechs could most likely do that in an instant. If you could train to develop demonic powers then Sairaorg should have immense demonic powers. It's not like devils are Desperados from Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry.

I still believe Issei has low-class demonic powers. There's nothing wrong with that. He has the Boosted Gear which increases his demonic powers to high-class level or higher.