North Korea Situation

[Blueknight78]

at this point with 2 boths mad mans, with weird hair cute and crazy ego, if i'm a usa or "asian" i could really be ready to "run for my life"!!!.

[Key Board]

"Military solutions are now fully in place,locked and loaded,should North Korea act unwisely. Hopefully Kim Jong Un will find another path!"

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...70429734711298

welp

[Ithekro]

China will defend North Korea if it is attacked. But will probably stay out of it if Kim takes the first move.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

China will defend North Korea if it is attacked. But will probably stay out of it if Kim takes the first move.

"Defend" can mean many things. For example, instead of actually fighting American soldiers, China can simply take over North Korean leadership and install a puppet leader. Then America will stop attacking and North Korea would be "defended".

[The Green One]

Everyone wants to make everyone else make the first move so they can be "justified" in the action they take in response.

[Valky]

If Trump want to bring China into it, he should've start by pronounce it properly first. Well, at least they made it clear they won't support Kim if he attack first. That'll be huge factor for him to consider.

Anyway, chicken race huh, seems fun. Duel between two fat man with funny hair seems far more appropriate rather than involving the whole world on their stupid propaganda though. I guess it could be Jousting too if they could not stand running around.

[Toukairin]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

"Defend" can mean many things. For example, instead of actually fighting American soldiers, China can simply take over North Korean leadership and install a puppet leader. Then America will stop attacking and North Korea would be "defended".

I cannot stop thinking that toppling the regime would have been done ages ago if the Chinese have the required armed forces to do it swiftly. But for that, their army needs a perfect mix of hardware, manpower, logistics, and discipline. For me, the failure of the Chinese soldiers involved in the failed peacekeeping mission in South Sudan exposed a big crack at the most elementary unit: a lack of discipline and a lack of professionalism.

It's a real shame because it would have been easier to cut North Korea in half through a deal between the US and China if the latter had a solid army. Perhaps, North Korea would do nothing like what they did if that was the case as well.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Toukairin

I cannot stop thinking that toppling the regime would have been done ages ago if the Chinese have the required armed forces to do it swiftly.

Well, assuming NK and Trump ended up in a real war, NK government would be much weaker than they are now because of the distraction and thus be an easier target for China to overthrow.

[Valky]

Originally Posted by Toukairin

I cannot stop thinking that toppling the regime would have been done ages ago if the Chinese have the required armed forces to do it swiftly. But for that, their army needs a perfect mix of hardware, manpower, logistics, and discipline. For me, the failure of the Chinese soldiers involved in the failed peacekeeping mission in South Sudan exposed a big crack at the most elementary unit: a lack of discipline and a lack of professionalism.

It's a real shame because it would have been easier to cut North Korea in half through a deal between the US and China if the latter had a solid army. Perhaps, North Korea would do nothing like what they did if that was the case as well.

And why in the world would China do that back then?

[Toukairin]

Originally Posted by Valky

And why in the world would China do that back then?

For the same reason the US decided to overthrow Manuel Noriega, who was their man. When an ally becomes such a liability who causes problems, it's time to remove the source of those problems.

If the question is about why cut North Korea in half, it's simple. There would still be a buffer land between South Korea and China, but that "country" would be too small to be a source for further problems.

In any case, the fact remains that we are where we are mainly because China has problems with its armed forces. Otherwise, the DPRK would be afraid.

[Valky]

Originally Posted by Toukairin

For the same reason the US decided to overthrow Manuel Noriega, who was their man. When an ally becomes such a liability who causes problems, it's time to remove the source of those problems.

If the question is about why cut North Korea in half, it's simple. There would still be a buffer land between South Korea and China, but that "country" would be too small to be a source for further problems.

I see. But that's not really feasible though.

You clearly forgot Soviet was NK ally. Would China invade NK with Soviet on their border? Add that with the cold war, I seriously doubt China and U.S. could team up to invade NK since If anything, US was allergic with anything communist.

[Toukairin]

Originally Posted by Valky

I see. But that's not really feasible though.

You clearly forgot Soviet was NK ally. Would China invade NK with Soviet on their border? Add that with the cold war, I seriously doubt China and U.S. could team up to invade NK since If anything, US was allergic with anything communist.

I'm not talking about that far back though; I talk about in recent years. Russia looks disinterested with the Far East unlike in Syria and Eastern Europe. From the moment when Chinese people started seeing North Korea as a liability, the ruling administration(s) in China could have tightened its grip upon its neighbour or simply toppling the regime. The big problem is that the PLA simply... sucks if any of the 2 options is presented to them. Otherwise, North Korea would have been afraid of what would happen if they piss off Beijing.

Splitting a country in two between ideological rivals would not be new though. In fact, that was the course of events in Poland back in 1939; people forget that too often when studying WW2.

[Ithekro]

That is sort of how we got a North and South Korea in the first place. What next a North and Northeast Korea to go with South Korea?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

That is sort of how we got a North and South Korea in the first place. What next a North and Northeast Korea to go with South Korea?

It happened with Sudan. Hell, it happened with India after the British left.

The general belief is that China might decide to spilt a chunk of North Korea off as a new buffer zone, that is too small to raise an army and needed China's aid to literally not die.

[Ithekro]

Wonder if they'll wait for the solar eclipse to claim madness?

[Valky]

Originally Posted by Toukairin

I'm not talking about that far back though; I talk about in recent years. Russia looks disinterested with the Far East unlike in Syria and Eastern Europe. From the moment when Chinese people started seeing North Korea as a liability, the ruling administration(s) in China could have tightened its grip upon its neighbour or simply toppling the regime. The big problem is that the PLA simply... sucks if any of the 2 options is presented to them. Otherwise, North Korea would have been afraid of what would happen if they piss off Beijing.

Splitting a country in two between ideological rivals would not be new though. In fact, that was the course of events in Poland back in 1939; people forget that too often when studying WW2.

Well, you said ages ago, so it can't be helped for me to assume that way back.

If you're talking about recent years .. you meant after they succeed in weaponized the nuke? Yeah .. not sure about that. Despite China and US could just blow up all of NK's nuclear facilities first, it'll probably cause a high radiation exposure incidents there and kill a lot of people depending on the location. That'll be one hell of diplomacy shit hole backlash from the international community. There's also problems like refugee, aid for NK, possibility of civil resistance or even act of terror by the former NK people, and other problems. All of that shit that China will have to deal with after the war because they share border in order to stabilize the region. I seriously doubt China want refugee.

I also doubt China will move to invade NK without Russian's approval. Russia not interested in their own backyard affair would be seriously weird.

Then again, we also don't really know what happens in the back negotiation between China and NK, whether NK already cross the line or not.

[shadow1296]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/28/japa...port-says.html

the situation has just gotten worse

[The Green One]

Ah you beat me to it, was just about to post about that.

Wonder how long it'll be before something goes wrong with one of these shots and a missile lands somewhere populated and then we all don't have a choice but to respond rather than shake fingers at North Korea and tell them they're bad.

[AnimeFan188]

North Korea talks tough as South says nuclear
test may be coming:

"North Korea kept up its bellicose rhetoric against the United States on Monday as South
Korean officials said Pyongyang may be preparing its sixth nuclear weapon test.

Seoul's National Intelligence Service (NIS) told South Korean lawmakers at a closed door
parliamentary session that it has detected signs of North Korea preparing for another
nuclear test at its Punggye-ri underground test site."

See:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/asia/n...est/index.html

[Toukairin]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/28/japa...port-says.html

the situation has just gotten worse

How did the JSDF allow that to happen? Isn't that their job to shoot down anything that flies over the country unauthorized?