Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero Anime General Discussion Thread

[felix]

Originally Posted by Go0gleplex

Felix, I answered your question though I cannot be specific about the why because it involves several major spoilers which would get my hands slapped by the spoiler police . Suffice to say there is a VERY valid reason as to why slavery is used here on the immediate front and another two that are presented down the line.

Tell me where in the manga I would find this "reveal," just put chapter numbers under a spoiler tag, don't have to say anything else. Novel reference is fine too.

I don't think just a chapter number is against the rules but if that's a problem just pm them.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Its amazing how people are pretty much fine with using slaves, betrayal and rape claim happened on other western fictional works, but calling what Naofumi did is mark of him as degenerated human, let alone Goblin Slayer and its first episode that I don't need to explain.

Umm, the people complaining about Shield Hero would probably have the same problem in western fictional works.

Originally Posted by Tactics

Kinda surprised how people can justify Goblin Slayer went into crusade against goblin because his family killed by goblins but found it hard to believe Naofumi losing good chunk of trust after accused for rape he never did like it never happened on other fictional works. Maybe Naofumi need to do crusade against woman of noble lineage so audience can understand it better. LOL.

How are those two related?

Goblins are bad monsters and Goblin Slayer kills them.

Naofumi is a hero summoned from another world to save it. And he gets accused of rape and absolutely no one believes him or listens to his side of the story.

I've read the novels so I don't need you to explain to me why they don't believe him, I'm just saying that those two situations aren't equivalent at all.

Originally Posted by Go0gleplex

As someone noted above, judging the whole series based on the partial information of a first episode, especially when this particular story has motives within motives; of which few are handed to the audience on a silver platter, is a bit premature.

There are two sides to this.

People can only make judgments about the anime that they see. It might all make sense 5 episodes down to the line but that isn't going to change your feelings right now. So it's annoying to be told that "you aren't allowed to dislike the episode because of stuff that happens later on".

On the other hand, some people are making big snap judgments about anime, presuming grand statements about the writing and "social issues" based on things that intentionally haven't been explained. So that's annoying for people on the other side.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Twi

And its less Naofumi losing the ability to trust as the execution of everything. Again, I can understand why he would get a slave, but I question why he chose a female child who we can see on the cover will grow up in a very short time frame rather than some other slave who'd be capable of fighting. If he was trying to be a good guy then by that logic he wouldn't have gone with the slaver, but if he was trying to survive then he made a tactical mistake here.

Pretty much. This conversation has been going on for so much time that I've been brainstorming how the hell one can even salvage the narrative holes within the problem.

As far as the core problem (I care most about) that the relationship of slave and slave-master has too many limitations on plot moving forward, I have no solution, yet.

But I do have a plausible hypothetical reason for choosing her over anyone else: Fear and Acute Paranoia. He hates the world, but is very afraid of the world, and not just the monster outside, but the towns people too, the king, etc, but he also needs the world. (I think everyone here agrees up to this part). In the case of the girl, a way to look at it is that for all his poker face he's actually very afraid of all the slaves there, and also afraid of the slaves backstabbing him (even with the slave seal thing), so presumably he wants her because even with out the slave seal he's confident of beating her. Of course under the assumption he's afraid of her too, to an extent.

Morally this fear & paranoia explanation does actually make him a worse person, but on the bright side it does fix the narrative forcefulness. But again, it does not fix the problem with the relationship being shit for the story going forward; though if we were to consider it to be he's afraid of her it does make it (very) slightly less shitty (but only a little bit).

[Key Board]

It gets flak because it's tone deaf in a post #MeToo era (WHICH BTW, WAS ALSO TRENDING HARD IN JAPAN)
men getting away with sexual harassment is a BIGGER issue than men getting falsely accused.

Yes, Shield Hero was written before that, but the problem hasn't gone away.


"Member of J-Pop Girl Group NGT48 Apologizes for Discussing Assault"
https://www.billboard.com/articles/n...yamaguchi-maho

This is something that happened recently, and this is why when Shield Hero does this kind of thing it rightfully annoys people.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Tactics

I don't see problem with him chosing female kid.

Kids is usually cheaper slave compare to adult ones, easier to control as well; a man like him can easily overpower the girl in case she ever tried to kill him. If I must say, its one logical pick compare to some other protagonists that took slave because of kindness or taking adult ones without even considering the risk of betrayal. Telling the choice didn't make sense is no different than telling GS decision to do solo hunt to the point he's well-known until Priestess forced her way is illogical.

I don't see problem with the false accusation either as he clearly affected by that and we saw that's what shaped his character. If he previously do any major good deeds and simple accusation like this kill his reputation in no more than hours for plot reason, yes, its cheap plot drive. Here, you can see nobody truly care about Naofumi; having 'destined hero' title not kept you away from scumbag is fine doing. Not to mention this is first episode, maybe there is reason why its him getting such treatment and not other heroes.

It can be tiring having someone have to die for sake of 'proper' plot drive.

Right, didn't your post until I went back so let me address this:

A child may be cheaper, but you have a sickly raccoon slave girl who doesn't look like she's held a weapon in her life and, for all you know, will get scared and freeze up in a life-or-death situation when you are going out to fight monsters. This means you have to micromanage her health, the cost of feeding her, her training, and all of that jazz when you have a month or less until you're thrown into a situation like the Wave. Now, judging from the opening we know she's not going to stay that way, but Naofumi doesn't so that means he means he's taking on all of that extra burden and overpowering her isn't an issue for her or any slave in this series because of what they do to them.

The logic in that doesn't pan out if this series is going to take that seriously unless she was literally the only slave he had available in Naofumi's price range.

Second, again, stop pushing Goblin Slayer into this. It's a different premise, with a different theme, in a different genre, and different driving factors. If you're going to defend something in this series and plot, then do so on its own merits or even in its own genre rather than trying to link two incompatible series. You'd have more grounds to do so if you compared to In Another World with a Smartphone than Goblin Slayer.

Third, having someone die isn't what makes a plot either. I never mentioned that either, so I can only assume its another reference to Goblin Slayer.

Originally Posted by felix

Pretty much. This conversation has been going on for so much time that I've been brainstorming how the hell one can even salvage the narrative holes within the problem.

As far as the core problem (I care most about) that the relationship of slave and slave-master has too many limitations on plot moving forward, I have no solution, yet.

But I do have a plausible hypothetical reason for choosing her over anyone else: Fear and Acute Paranoia. He hates the world, but is very afraid of the world, and not just the monster outside, but the towns people too, the king, etc, but he also needs the world. (I think everyone here agrees up to this part). In the case of the girl, a way to look at it is that for all his poker face he's actually very afraid of all the slaves there, and also afraid of the slaves backstabbing him (even with the slave seal thing), so presumably he wants her because even with out the slave seal he's confident of beating her. Of course under the assumption he's afraid of her too, to an extent.

Morally this fear & paranoia explanation does actually make him a worse person, but on the bright side it does fix the narrative forcefulness. But again, it does not fix the problem with the relationship being shit for the story going forward; though if we were to consider it to be he's afraid of her it does make it (very) slightly less shitty (but only a little bit).

This. This is a fair point. It's logic I can get behind to an extent.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Twi

A child may be cheaper, but you have a sickly raccoon slave girl who doesn't look like she's held a weapon in her life and, for all you know, will get scared and freeze up in a life-or-death situation when you are going out to fight monsters. This means you have to micromanage her health, the cost of feeding her, her training, and all of that jazz when you have a month or less until you're thrown into a situation like the Wave. Now, judging from the opening we know she's not going to stay that way, but Naofumi doesn't so that means he means he's taking on all of that extra burden and overpowering her isn't an issue for her or any slave in this series because of what they do to them.

This is a bit brutal, but this can actually be explained as him only wanting her to level up. If you think of it she only has to hold the weapon and he can literally impale the monsters on the weapon himself. For this a spear would make the most logical sense. It is not outside logical bounds given that he literally can not afford to worry about fighting the waves in his state, his main priority is literally to just survive them, and his plan and concerned as depicted do seem to be to just level up faster.

Actually this "she's only a weapon carry" works even better then my previous theory.

(He should just swing her around lol)

[nfsac]

DId episode 2 air already?

[Twi]

Originally Posted by nfsac

DId episode 2 air already?

Not as far as I can tell. It comes out on the 16th, I think.

Originally Posted by felix

This is a bit brutal, but this can actually be explained as him only wanting her to level up. If you think of it she only has to hold the weapon and he can literally impale the monsters on the weapon himself. For this a spear would make the most logical sense. It is not outside logical bounds given that he literally can not afford to worry about fighting the waves in his state, his main priority is literally to just survive them, and his plan and concerned as depicted do seem to be to just level up faster.

Actually this "she's only a weapon carry" works even better then my previous theory.

(He should just swing her around lol)

Again, a fair point. I'm not espousing him be a paragon given the situation he's in. I was all for the other three heroes wanting compensation for being summoned, and more so considering they can't go back until they defeat the waves.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by felix

But I do have a plausible hypothetical reason for choosing her over anyone else: Fear and Acute Paranoia. He hates the world, but is very afraid of the world, and not just the monster outside, but the towns people too, the king, etc, but he also needs the world. (I think everyone here agrees up to this part). In the case of the girl, a way to look at it is that for all his poker face he's actually very afraid of all the slaves there, and also afraid of the slaves backstabbing him (even with the slave seal thing), so presumably he wants her because even with out the slave seal he's confident of beating her. Of course under the assumption he's afraid of her too, to an extent.

Morally this fear & paranoia explanation does actually make him a worse person, but on the bright side it does fix the narrative forcefulness. But again, it does not fix the problem with the relationship being shit for the story going forward; though if we were to consider it to be he's afraid of her it does make it (very) slightly less shitty (but only a little bit).

Good post. This more or less where I am at with Naofumi. I get his trust issues, but I can't say I like every desicion he makes because of it. To be charitable to the writing maybe I wasn't supposed to, but without acknowledgement of issue in-universe it hard to say what the intent is there. It makes him a hard character for me to behind before the whole thing came up.

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by felix

This is a bit brutal, but this can actually be explained as him only wanting her to level up. If you think of it she only has to hold the weapon and he can literally impale the monsters on the weapon himself. For this a spear would make the most logical sense. It is not outside logical bounds given that he literally can not afford to worry about fighting the waves in his state, his main priority is literally to just survive them, and his plan and concerned as depicted do seem to be to just level up faster.

Actually this "she's only a weapon carry" works even better then my previous theory.

(He should just swing her around lol)

Problem is, if she hasn't at least a bit of combat experience, the first time a monster targets her she is dead, so she won't be so useful as a leveling tool.
I think he is going to buy her either because she's cheap, or to save her, or because he casually discovers she has some kind of special ability useful to him.

[Go0gleplex]

The animal girl romance cliche' aside; the author has Raphtalia there as a demonstration that despite his anger and such, Naofumi still has not lost his humanity and is intrinsically still someone that will protect others in need, a build off of the 'saving his brother' bit introduced early in the first episode. He also sees a bit of his situation in hers. Both have been screwed over by a world that apparently hates them unfairly simply for whom and what they are. He is fully aware that the girl has no combat experience and may be a waste of his funds, but does so despite that knowledge. Not the actions of the monster he is supposed to be to others.

The fear is not of the world but of additional betrayals. It's not paranoia if you know the other guy is out to get you, something that has so far been totally proven fact by all but the Weapons Merchant. But yeah, essentially those two components, in addition to anger and another unrevealed but hinted at related issue are what are driving him currently.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Go0gleplex

Also, show me one fantasy author that doesn't drag in real world issues or base some context of their story on real world rhetoric and I'll show you half dozen that do for each one. Heck, even Tolkein's Hobbit and LotR was a criticism of the current events and recent history of his time as did Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Sure, writers draw on social issues, but if they do so in a careless or contrary way, there will be reaction in public discussion that presents the other side of the issue.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by felix

Actually this "she's only a weapon carry" works even better then my previous theory.

(He should just swing her around lol)

She probably count as a weapon then

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Go0gleplex

The animal girl romance cliche' aside; the author has Raphtalia there as a demonstration that despite his anger and such, Naofumi still has not lost his humanity and is intrinsically still someone that will protect others in need, a build off of the 'saving his brother' bit introduced early in the first episode. He also sees a bit of his situation in hers. Both have been screwed over by a world that apparently hates them unfairly simply for whom and what they are. He is fully aware that the girl has no combat experience and may be a waste of his funds, but does so despite that knowledge. Not the actions of the monster he is supposed to be to others.

The fear is not of the world but of additional betrayals. It's not paranoia if you know the other guy is out to get you, something that has so far been totally proven fact by all but the Weapons Merchant. But yeah, essentially those two components, in addition to anger and another unrevealed but hinted at related issue are what are driving him currently.

This is not really accurate though. People are only out to get him because of his rep, and even then it's not everyone. We don't even know if it is most people because Naofumi has only talked to a few people at best. He's meet also met people who haven't bothered him despite that rep like the herbalist. Furthermore people were trying to cheatand mug him never seemed like good people to begin with. It more his extreme view of the situation than reality. If anything there is pretty high chance that someone without nothing to lose like a slave wouldn't betray him. In fact the entire story could work without slavery aspect all as it adds nothing to it and still develop Naofumi trust isusses and relationships like other series eith similiar scenarios has done. At best like a lot of aspect of Shield Hero it just folliwing a trend among isekai in feisthizing it. Sadly it won't be the last either.

[Itlandm]

As for the slavery part, there is an easy test on whether it is plot-driven or fetish-driven. If the slave girl does not fall in love with her owner, it is plot driven. People who have a slave fetish want romance (or at least sex), not just a good working relationship.

The plot requires that the hero gets a damage dealer so he can level up and survive long enough to return to his own world. A love affair would actually get in the way of that. So let's wait and see. If the slave girl falls in love with the hero, it is just another slave fetish isekai. It's not like we did not see one of those last year too, only with more boobs.

You can guess what my bet is already from the fact that he doesn't pick a male. But let's wait until the anime gives the answer. If I'm proven wrong, I'll not only admit it here in the forum, but I also promise to buy the whole series of novels.

[Go0gleplex]

Originally Posted by Applehell

This is not really accurate though. People are only out to get him because of his rep, and even then it's not everyone. We don't even know if it is most people because Naofumi has only talked to a few people at most. He's meet also met people who haven't bothered him despite that rep like the herbalist. So if anything there is pretty high chance that someone without nothing to lose like a slave wouldn't betray him. In fact the entire story could work without slavery aspect all as it adds nothing to it and still develop Naofumi trust isusses and relationships like other series eith similiar scenarios has done. At best like a lot of aspect of Shield Hero it just folliwing a trend among isekai in feisthizing it. Sadly it won't be the last either.

You are thinking with too modern of a mindset by far here. Go further back into the dark ages and the Spanish Inquisition. The people, as a whole, reflected the attitudes of the rules and the church like good little sheep. Surely the powers that be would not lie...and those that figured they were would not dissent openly in fear of reprisal, ie. offer support to someone that was already in the foul graces of the powers that be, such as Naofumi. The weapons guy had Naofumi in an alley and as far as witnesses were concerned, likely pounding him.

What herbalist? Were they part of the first episode or is that down the line? I only saw the weapons guy and the slave master giving Naofumi support in this episode. And there is another reason the author has the slavery thing, though it is a bit of a deus ex machina device introduced several volumes in or so.

I know this changes later, but currently as far as Naofumi is concerned, everyone is his enemy with very few exceptions, the two we have seen so far both surprising him since he had no expectations that anyone would help given circumstances so far.

I have no idea where you see a fetish here. If you mean cliche', as in a common plot device, it would be more of an appropriate term. Fetish has a totally different connotation that does so not apply in this series.

[Applehell]

When Naofumi discovered he could increase the potency of herbs, he bought to some clerk in the scene to sell it for cash. Unlike with last merchwnt or the thugs this guy treated him fairy without incident.

[Dengar]

Well the first merchant did spread the word not to mess with the shield hero.


Anyway, looking at the wikipedia entry.

Written by Aneko Yusagi
Illustrated by Minami Seira

I'm not a master at Japanese, but I'm fairly sure those are woman names.


...And of course I can't just walk into a discussion about this show without someone invoking metoo.

[Go0gleplex]

Originally Posted by Applehell

When Naofumi discovered he could increase the potency of herbs, he bought to some clerk in the scene to sell it for cash. Unlike with last merchwnt or the thugs this guy treated him fairy without incident.

Annnnd you missed the point of the question. Was this guy in the first episode, which is the point of the discussion, or in the next that hasn't aired yet? I know whom the guy is and several of the others that he deals with. But as those folks have not been introduced yet within the anime...so I consider them outside the scope for now. As he has not yet encountered them, they have no bearing on current state of mind.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Itlandm

As for the slavery part, there is an easy test on whether it is plot-driven or fetish-driven. If the slave girl does not fall in love with her owner, it is plot driven. People who have a slave fetish want romance (or at least sex), not just a good working relationship.

The plot requires that the hero gets a damage dealer so he can level up and survive long enough to return to his own world. A love affair would actually get in the way of that. So let's wait and see. If the slave girl falls in love with the hero, it is just another slave fetish isekai. It's not like we did not see one of those last year too, only with more boobs.

You can guess what my bet is already from the fact that he doesn't pick a male. But let's wait until the anime gives the answer. If I'm proven wrong, I'll not only admit it here in the forum, but I also promise to buy the whole series of novels.

It's going to be a fun time in this thread when you get your answer.