Re:Zero - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

By this logic, Rem is already out of the starting gate because Subaru knows her feelings

He's basicially rejected them and has still decided to help him which puts her on losing side. Speaking on meta lebel those usually confess early when still unresolved issues around normally lose.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Applehell

He's basicially rejected them and has still decided to help him which puts her on losing side. Speaking on meta lebel those usually confess early when still unresolved issues around normally lose.

Speaking on a meta level it's Shuffle! and Mashifoni all over again

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

Speaking on a meta level it's Shuffle! and Mashifoni all over again

Shuffle! brings back terrible memories.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Demi.

To say Subaru giving his life to save Emilia has special meaning is kind of misleading, considering he did the same to save Rem and the children. He literally committed suicide to save Rem, and this was right after Rem killed him in his previous checkpoint. Sure, he cares about his life, but he need only worry about the pain of dying, not losing said life.

That "pain" has been massively traumatic exprience given Subaru a breakdown, or nearly driven him mad. That was small bit meangless scarifices on his part. Espeically when he doesn't know whether he has limit or not. We have seen him wake up comepletely terified after each and every death.

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

Speaking on a meta level it's Shuffle! and Mashifoni all over again

Well DragonKain3 did sort of liken Rem to typicial childhood friend role without being one herself.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Applehell

Arc 1 was 3 and Emilia was still had a strong presence afterwards, the focus only really shifting from her until like ep 9.

Arc 3? Maybe, but Arc 2? Not really. She was important in rhe sense that she was one of reasons for the conflict but she wasn't the only one who had a big role. Arc 2 was act ulitmately she and Ram rather just her.

And stalkers don't risk their lives to save others..

Arc 2 was to establish Rem's relationship with Subaru, which is the gateway to her importance in future arcs. You can't deny this.

Arc 3 Emilia's purpose was to send Subaru into madness.

You can't sit there and say Subaru isn't obsessed with Emilia, his obsession with her is what started his descent into madness.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Shuffle! brings back terrible memories.

I started auto-piloting it after red haired story was done :V

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Arc 2 was to establish Rem's relationship with Subaru, which is the gateway to her importance in future arcs. You can't deny this.

Arc 3 Emilia's purpose was to send Subaru into madness.

You can't sit there and say Subaru isn't obsessed with Emilia, his obsession with her is what started his descent into madness.

-The establishment didn't happen until ep 11.

-Subaru's decent into madness were all on his own which sterm from his inherent inferiority complex that he carried over from his old life that he thought could be buried here and the haughty pride he developed from his deeds.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

That's enough reason to like someone, not a reason to have a stalker level of obsession towards someone.

Stalker level of obsession?

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Stalker level of obsession?

Emilia's plea for Subaru to stay put, only for him to do the opposite and make a complete ass out of himself by proclaiming to be Emilia's knight. Funnily enough, it didn't start or end there. Subaru thinks that only he is on Emilia's side, and only he can solve her problems. This results in an unhealthy obsession that has a negative impact on both him and Emilia.

[moridin84]

Spoiler for Comparison to Mashiro-iro Symphony:

Mashiro Iro Symphony was great.The Mui ending (and her mother) are probably the only reason I remember the anime. And instantly.

I'm not really sure why people brought it up but I just thought I'd say!

Originally Posted by BetoJR

I find it very interesting that some people (not just you, I'm simply using your post to respond to this, ok?) equate feelings with "what the other person has done for you". That's... not how things work, not really. At least, not in my experience.

Ever heard of the "Friendzone". It's something coined by guys who act nice and helpful to a girl in hopes that she'll eventually fall in love with them.

So that mentality isn't really rare.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Arc 2 was to establish Rem's relationship with Subaru, which is the gateway to her importance in future arcs. You can't deny this.

Arc 3 Emilia's purpose was to send Subaru into madness.

You can't sit there and say Subaru isn't obsessed with Emilia, his obsession with her is what started his descent into madness.

Subaru is obsessed with Emilia? He just thinks he loves her?

Okay then. Since he thinks he loves Emilia, rejecting Rem makes perfect sense. Even more so if he's obsessed with her.

Right?

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Emilia's plea for Subaru to stay put, only for him to do the opposite and make a complete ass out of himself by proclaiming to be Emilia's knight. Funnily enough, it didn't start or end there. Subaru thinks that only he is on Emilia's side, and only he can solve her problems. This results in an unhealthy obsession that has a negative impact on both him and Emilia.

Going by this I'm gonna assume you don't remember his internal monologue in the scene with Rem during ep 12 before she turned a blind eye to let go him to palace, because that is why he did it. Everything else resulted from Julius questioning and crushing his pride which called in his internal doubts if he actually had the ability to protect Emilia or anything else. This is called back in this episode 18 when he is heavily criticzing himself and how he has nothing while everyone else does.

He's intentions were good, his lack of self worth and desperation to prove himself in not being weak or useless is what led to destruction of all of his relationships outside Rem and a lot of his suffering. There was far going underneath all that than some reductoinst label.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Emilia's plea for Subaru to stay put, only for him to do the opposite and make a complete ass out of himself by proclaiming to be Emilia's knight. Funnily enough, it didn't start or end there. Subaru thinks that only he is on Emilia's side, and only he can solve her problems. This results in an unhealthy obsession that has a negative impact on both him and Emilia.

So he has poor regard for his own safety and wellbeing and is overdramatic. My question was how he has a stalker level of obsession.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Dengar

So he has poor regard for his own safety and wellbeing and is overdramatic. My question was how he has a stalker level of obsession.

What I just said is how he has stalker level obsession. I don't see how you interpret it any other way. He's obsessed with her so he does illogical things trying to prove his worth to her even if they don't even result in her own benefit. He can't leave her alone even when it's in her best interest to do so. He never truly listens to what she says, only does what will make him look the most like a white knight. What is your interpretation of stalker level obsession?

That's the difference between Rems love for Subaru and Subarus love for Emilia. Rem is willing to part ways if it suits Subarus best interest. She even accept not being his first choice, but when Emilia rejects Subaru (romantic rejection isn't the only type of rejection) he loses his mind. His mental breakdown was the result of her not reciprocating the affection of his actions.

Originally Posted by Applehell

Going by this I'm gonna assume you don't remember his internal monologue in the scene with Rem during ep 12 before she turned a blind eye to let go him to palace, because that is why he did it. Everything else resulted from Julius questioning and crushing his pride which called in his internal doubts if he actually had the ability to protect Emilia or anything else. This is called back in this episode 18 when he is heavily criticzing himself and how he has nothing while everyone else does.

She let him make his own choice, that's not on her. She didn't influence it.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Demi.

What I just said is how he has stalker level obsession. I don't see how you interpret it any other way. He's obsessed with her so he does illogical things trying to prove his worth to her even if they don't even result in her own benefit. He can't leave her alone even when it's in her best interest to do so. What is your interpretation of stalker level obsession?

That's the difference between Rems love for Subaru and Subarus love for Emilia. Rem is willing to part ways if it suits Subarus best interest. She even accept not being his first choice, but when Emilia rejects Subaru (romantic rejection isn't the only type of rejection) he loses his mind. His mental breakdown was the result of her not reciprocating the affection of his actions.

You're being pretty dishonest here. You know that scene and the one with Rem's confession were nothing alike not even in context. Emilia rejected him because he could not explain his situauon or his feelings and simply lashed out on her. They didn't reach an understanding with everything out on the table like Rem and he did because Subaru wasn't or right state of mind.

Originally Posted by Demi.

She let him make his own choice, that's not on her. She didn't influence it.

Rem wasn't supposed to let go to the simply stay in the room and rest, but that is besides my point.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Applehell

You're being pretty dishonest here. You know that scene and the one with Rem's confession were nothing alike not even in context. Emilia rejected him because he could not explain his situauon or his feelings and simply lashed out on her. They didn't reach an understanding with everything out on the table like Rem and he did because wasn't or right state of mind.

It goes far deeper than Rems confession. Rem has been doing what is in Subarus best interest ever since she started loving him. While Subaru only does what will paint him in the best light towards Emilia...And ends up failing spectacularly. Rem put Subaru asleep and rushed to the castle on her own knowing full well Subaru would dislike her for it, but she knew it was in his best interest so she did it anyways. She didn't run off with him because it's not what he really wanted. She could have had him all for herself, but she knew it would only make Subaru unhappy and full of regret.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Demi.

What I just said is how he has stalker level obsession. I don't see how you interpret it any other way. He's obsessed with her so he does illogical things trying to prove his worth to her even if they don't even result in her own benefit. He can't leave her alone even when it's in her best interest to do so. He never truly listens to what she says, only does what will make him look the most like a white knight. What is your interpretation of stalker level obsession?

My interpretation of stalker level obsession? Well, I don't know, displaying actual stalker-like behavior?

You once again demonstrated that he has no regard for his own wellbeing (ignoring her orders to stay put) and that he understands too little of the world which causes him to make an ass of himself.

Where's the creepiness? Where's the harassment? Where's the entitlement to her vag?

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Demi.

It goes far deeper than Rems confession. Rem has been doing what is in Subarus best interest ever since she started loving him. While Subaru only does what will paint him in the best light towards Emilia...And ends up failing spectacularly. Rem put Subaru asleep and rushed to the castle on her own knowing full well Subaru would dislike her for it, but she knew it was in his best interest so she did it anyways.

Um not getting your point here. He's still doing what's Emilia best interest even if he's been clusmy about which he's general been. Emilia also doing whats in what she thought was in best interest for him. They simply didn't lineup due miscommucaition something that even Rem said back in ep 14 he could clear up if he just talked to her again, properly this time. The issue here isn't about depth of one's actions, but the opportunity and ability to convey one's feelings.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Dengar

My interpretation of stalker level obsession? Well, I don't know, displaying actual stalker-like behavior?

You once again demonstrated that he has no regard for his own wellbeing (ignoring her orders to stay put) and that he understands too little of the world which causes him to make an ass of himself.

Where's the creepiness? Where's the harrassment? Where's the entitlement to her vag?

It shows he has no respect for her own choices and opinions, not his disregard for his well-being. He didn't think it would end that way, it was just another way for him to "prove" to Emilia that she needs him.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Um not getting your point here. He's still doing what's Emilia best interest even if he's been clusmy about. Emilia also doing whats in what she thought was in best interest for him. They simply didn't lineup due miscommucaition something that even said Rem back in ep 14 that he could clear up if he just talked to her again, properly this time. The issue here isn't about depth of one's actions, but the opportunity and ability to convey one's feelings.

That was not in her best interest. She plainly said beforehand not to come and he did anyways. He knows nothing about the world and her situation and he continues make choices without Emilias feelings in mind. He's thinking "she needs me" He portrays her more as a damsel in distress than an independent woman fighting for the throne. How many times do you need to be told no, until you realize you need to drop the white knight routine until it's truly needed?

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Demi.

It shows he has no respect for her own choices and opinions, not his disregard for his well-being. He didn't think it would end that way, it was just another way for him to "prove" to Emilia that she needs him.

Wait wait, the girl is forcing him to stay in bed and do absolutely nothing and him going against that is denying the girl her choices? In what universe?

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Wait wait, the girl is forcing him to stay in bed and do absolutely nothing and him going against that is denying the girl her choices? In what universe?

Let's not blow the truth out of proportion. The girl didn't want him to interfere with the royal meeting. And don't conveniently forget that they mutually agreed to this.