Zeta Gundam discussion

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Let's just agree to disagree.

Regardless of whether or not he (implied) "apologized", it's not like either way really would have any severe changes on the rest of the series, lol.

Knowing Kamille at the time, even if Jerid did full-out and sincerely apologize with an "I'm sorry. I had no idea your mother was in that capsule, I beg you to forgive me", (pfft, lol), he STILL would've most likely made some smart alec response/insult since, in Kamille's eyes, it doesn't matter whether or not Jerid knew she was in the capsule, but the basic fact that he DID kill her all the same.

[fizzmaister]

@Dean: That is the root of apology; however, it's grown in two rather distinct directions. The first one is the commonly understood statement of remorse and request for forgiveness. The other is the one that has more in common with the root. It is used in the phrase "X apologist." This is used to describe a person that defends something (usually ideology).

I think we can agree that he defended his actions (second meaning). But he did not apologize for his actions (first meaning).

Also, he's a prick and had to rub it in.

[xris]

Recent off-topic posts have now been deleted. Can we get back on-topic please.

If you wish to argue the definition of a word then feel free to do so but via Private or Visitor Messages, please do not derail the thread.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Hmmm...what else to discuss...

I do wonder how Gundarium Beta is so much easier and less costly to produce than Gundarium Alpha a.k.a. Luna Titanium Alloy. It's pretty obvious that Alpha was seen as too costly for full-out mass production MS, yet we see Beta pretty much a staple material from Zeta and onwards. We know that Char brought it with him from Axis, but not much else besides it being a mix of different alloys as well as being lighter than, but just as durable as Alpha.

I also wonder a bit more on Scirocco; specifically the Messala and when it was produced. Given transformable MS/MA were introduced well before Zeta with the Asshimar, I wonder how Scirocco came about making it transformable and whatnot since it was already completed when he first showed up. Of course, all his other designs came afterwards like the Gabthley and whatnot.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

I do wonder how Gundarium Beta is so much easier and less costly to produce than Gundarium Alpha a.k.a. Luna Titanium Alloy. It's pretty obvious that Alpha was seen as too costly for full-out mass production MS, yet we see Beta pretty much a staple material from Zeta and onwards. We know that Char brought it with him from Axis, but not much else besides it being a mix of different alloys as well as being lighter than, but just as durable as Alpha.

You mean Gundarium Gamma? The difference is that Luna Titanium was a composite of materials being mined from Luna II, while Gundarium Gamma was (initially?) mined from Axis... My guess is that Axis Zeon was trying to duplicate the properties of Luna Titanium using resources from Axis and somehow ended up with a stronger (yes, stronger) and lighter material. And since the Alpha alloy is clearly inferior, I supposed they decided to go with Gamma for MS's from then on.

I also wonder a bit more on Scirocco; specifically the Messala and when it was produced. Given transformable MS/MA were introduced well before Zeta with the Asshimar, I wonder how Scirocco came about making it transformable and whatnot since it was already completed when he first showed up. Of course, all his other designs came afterwards like the Gabthley and whatnot.

It was designed & manufactured while Scirocco was aboard the Jupitris, I believe.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

I also considered perhaps it had something to do with being mined from around the asteroid belt around Axis or maybe even Axis itself (I mean, the thing is just as big, if not BIGGER than A Baoa Qu, lol). Perhaps being so far away from Earth or something.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

I also considered perhaps it had something to do with being mined from around the asteroid belt around Axis or maybe even Axis itself (I mean, the thing is just as big, if not BIGGER than A Baoa Qu, lol). Perhaps being so far away from Earth or something.

I guess they could mine it from the asteroid belt, but then you have to wonder how difficult it'd be to obtain new alloy if they had to travel to the asteroid belt all the time. So yeah, its probably mined directly from Axis.

And I guess it'd be far cheaper to produce Gamma because Axis is so much bigger than Luna II (just watch CCA) and thus would have more of this material...

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Or, at least after they initially jumpstart production since it was already being used on mass production MS like the Marasai and most stuff after in Zeta, perhaps it's a round-a-bout thing like they do with Helium-3 and get it from Jupiter-bound fleets too. Or perhaps Anaheim and other MS-producing companies managed to duplicate it somehow and, using Gundarium Alpha and other things, manage to make it themselves.

And considering the 2 halves of Axis are still floating around after CCA, well, more for use, lol.

[frubam]

So how good is Zeta Gundam? I saw it available over on ANN and it claimed that it was "largely considered one of the best series in the franchise" and all that. I'm no Gundam fanatic like some of the people here, but to get a general idea of what I like, i will list my currentnot initial) impressions( on the ones i watched.

Gundam Wing: It was good, but it felt too stylized. And I'm only fond of Duo and Trowa.
08th MS Team: thought it was ok, but was bored by it mostly. The only thing interesting was the fact they weren't using overpowered machines, which kept me compelled to watch it. The ending was satisfying too, because that doesn't happen to most male gundam protagonists.
0083 Gundam: hated it. didn't like the chars, didn't like the enemies. I got to the 3rd ep and was just bored with it.
Gundam SEED: Thought it was good at first, what with it's high similarity to the original Gundam 0079, but fell very flat for me after the main chars lost their main Gundams
TA Gundam: probably my favorite one for its different style, setting, and chars. I've watched the series 3 full times, something i haven't done with the others
0079 gundam: I didn't see it until after gWing, but i still thought it pretty good. Never finished it, cuz it stopped on its initial run on CN. I liked its more 'realistic' characterization.
Gundam 00: Def my 2nd fav, not counting visuals, the chars felt more solid and didn't have any of the annoying qualities(being an ass or whiny) from other pilots. Also thought it was very well-scripted and more interesting despite the pilots already having their maximum skill level.
I'm not counting 0080, but i did thought it was okay for it to mostly not involve fighting and focusing on the "enemy" pilot.

[Scorch]

@frubam:

I liked Zeta. In some ways, it's similar to the original. Kamille is quite a bit different than Amuro - he can be a bit psychotic at times. Especially early in the show. He steals a Gundam so he can laugh at a member of the military police who pissed him off. He goes through a ton of traumas in the first couple episodes and has a fairly dysfunctional personality. Not to the level of Shinji from Eva, but he's still a messed up kid. Later on his personality mellows, or maybe he's just shell shocked. He isn't even the best pilot in the show, despite being the hero. Quattro is an awesome mentor, and I really like Emma. Amuro shows up midway in the series, but he doesn't hijack the spotlight. There's a mix of likable and hate-able villains too. Haman is awesome.

It feels faster paced than 0079 to me. Maybe it's because most of the earlier fights are in space and using beam weaponry. A lot of characters get killed and there's no massively overpowering mechs. There's actually an oldtype who regularly thrashes the heroes. Some of the deaths are really sudden - like, you'd think there'd be some big buildup, but no, they just die. Most of the fights are just a couple MS at a time - no beamspam with grunts that don't try to dodge.

Assuming you don't mind the somewhat outdated animation (it aged better than the original MSG, but it's not all shiny and bright like SEED), it's definitely worth watching at least the first 5 episodes to see if you like it.

[Ypocaramel]

@ frubam:

Judging from your tastes and preferences, you'll enjoy Zeta, somewhere between great and okay.

[Dastari]

Hi, I watched a hong kong bootlet of Zeta Gundam many years before it was released in North America. I really loved it. Then years later I bought the North American release and was upset that the quality of the subtitles was so poor and was disappointed that the opening and ending themes were alterred.

I understand that Bandai doesn't have the rights to the theme music outside of Asia so I'm ok with that but now that I'm rewatching Zeta with my wife we're just so frustrated by these subtitles. We're not even fluent in japanese but it is annoying to be able to hear people calling out someone's name and then see subtitles saying something completely different. I read on the wikipedia entry for Zeta Gundam that the subtitles were corrected in later releases. Is that true? I know not to take wikipedia at face value but I'll probably buy the set all over again if I can get some better subs.

If I buy a Zeta set right now will it have different subtitles then my original release? If so, what does everyone here think of the quality of the new ones? Are they pretty authentic or just a little better than the old ones?

[Bieltan]

I've been watching UC in correct timeline order. Zeta was the most painful series to get through thus far. Kamille and a few other characters were so unrealistic in their reactions twards different events it was nearly funny. While on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, Char was spot on. MSG I didnt really warm up to him, but after Zeta, he's one of my favorite characters. One other point of positive was the mobil suites. For being such an old show, they were very impressive. Char's suite down right kicked ***.

just my .02

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Well, of course you won't get such characters right off the bat. It helps more to learn their backgrounds more in-depth to understand them better.

[Haak]

It’s the series where Char wears a sleeveless red leather jacket and sunglasses and fights in a golden Mobile Suit. Oh, and calls himself Quattro Bajina. They couldn’t have pimped him up more, even if they tried.

This was the fifth series I watched and boy was it one hell of a series. It’s a lot like the original series (which means I like it for much the same reasons) but just that little bit better but like the original it’s quite difficult to follow because there’s always a lot going on. And since it’s a 50 episode series that makes it very hard to keep track.

It goes one up from the original series and seeks to fuck up Kamille even more than it did Amuro. The poor son of bitch just never caught a break and I guess he finally went past the breaking point when he had to kill Rosamia with his own hands. But man did he give some epic lines “Why do you keep fighting me? Don’t you realise I have to kill you now?!?!?!” Lol.

But there are few flaws I could see:
1) Kamille’s correction – What the hell? That’s definitely not cool. I can’t believe they made it out to be normal.
2) Char’s grand speech to the public kinda felt more like a villian’s speech than a good guy’s speech. I didn’t realise that the Earth was so close to going down completely.
3) Jerid was killed off rather anti-climatically. It’s hilariously pitiful that a guy who devoted the rest of life to beating Kamille barely registers on Kamille’s radar and gets killed.
4) I seriously don’t understand why Shinta and Qum were brought on a military vessel. Why?!?!?!
5) Henken’s death was just so stupid pointless and I doubt that was the intention...
6) The amount of times Katz and Fa jump into a mobile suit and launch without authorization and then fuck everything up and then do it again episodes later. You’d think Bright would’ve caught on by now and put extra security measures but he never does. And you’d think Katz and Fa would’ve caught on and realise how useless they are but no. It’s like they’re suicidal or something.
7) And I just don’t understand Reccoa’s face heel turn. Women’s logic? You’re freaking kidding me, right? Then they revealed she’d been raped and I was like “Oooooooh of course!...
...
...I still don’t get it...”

But damn did they have the balls or what. I mean killing Katz at the end. The amount of times he escaped death, I thought he had Infant Immortality on his side but no. And then everyone else started dying. It was just utterly brutal. What a way to finish a series...

Overall: 9/10

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

1.) Wouldn't be surprising, given how the AEUG is trying to maintain some sort of military-like discipline. Probably, like much of UC stuff had been earlier on with Zeon and all, WWII-related.

2.) Probably meant to be ambiguous like that given his unseen actions of ZZ after his "death" in Zeta and his re-emergence in Char's Counterattack. It can be taken either way really, I suppose.

3.) Sadly, yes, one of the most lame "rival" deaths in Gundam. =\

4.) More than likely to emulate Katz, Letz, and Kikka in Mobile Suit Gundam (roughly the same ages back then), given Zeta is a direct sequel and all.

5.) Pretty much just your typical love-influenced action. The man using himself as a bodily shield to protect the woman.

6.) Gotta agree there, at least on the security measures (or at least lack of punishments). In terms of Katz or Fa (or Kamille early on) themselves, it's pretty much your typical "can't sit around and do nothing" attitude. A pretty common trait you see in, especially younger, protagonists. They want to feel useful in some way, especially in dangerous situations. Unfortunately, it rarely sinks in that their "use" is actually a hindrance quite a bit or causes unnecessary risk and all. (For those who actually don't do much like that anyway.)

7.) I don't think it was ever fully explained really. At least not enough to make 100% perfect sense. Some believe that Scirocco himself used his Newtype abilities to influence her a bit, given he seemed to have SOME sort of power over more vulnerable women like Sarah or Reccoa.

[creb]

I'm wondering how in the world the Gundam Wing discussion thread could be constantly on the top of this sub-forum over such greats like Zeta Gundam.


Sieg Zeon! Lead us to victory over that 1995 poser, Char!

By Seraph-Leviathan

[23 gundam fan]

i hate to say this , i feel you should give a complete look at a show before you judge it . but i cannot force myself to watch all of zeta gundam. i know its been held as a great story. but the art is just awful, to the point that i cant stay with it and watch the whole thing. and i have tried numerous times. i wish they would update it art wise, its just too much of a 70s look for me sorry.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Then you'd be better off watching the A New Translation movies.

Won't have the official ending, but the art of some things is updated and better-looking at least, though it may feel a bit rushed compared to the original series given its much more compact story.

[Archon_Wing]

Old art or not, Kamille is a man's name! :3

The strength shown by Kamille and Char Mr. Vagina Bajeena is sufficient enough to watch the anime, for sure. I do have great respect for Kamille just for simply lasting as long as he did as the show put him through all kinds of terrible things; seems like nobody can get close to him without kicking the bucket. Except Fa... Oh fa... ;p

Also Gundam Mk-II and Zeta Gundam duo was always cool.

Plus the antagonists! Haman KHAAAAN was definitely a sight to see with her scheming.

And if one can't appreciate the visuals, the soundtrack better be an another note; love that 2nd OP.

Anyhow, convenient the thread was bumped since I just finished it, and this is probably one of the best animu (much less Gundam) I've ever seen. Katz lived about 15 episodes too long though, I must say... But they saved for the best for the last, for sure.