High School DxD [LN/M] - Discussion about Other Topics

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

"Once he reached his peak"

Uh, dude, he just keep geting stronger, there was never a "peak" for him. Even now he isn't at his "peak".

Valerie never even seemed to be dead. She just entered a coma. They alluded to her being dead for like, a paragraph.

Fights are fights. I want to see people beating the shit out of each other. Nothing more.

Well, thinking someone of the main cast can die in this type of series is just self-delusion. It's a harem/ecchi, not a darker shonen. Seriously, there was never a shred of a chance to any of those " deaths" being permanent. But this didn't stop me from crying like a bitch in v11.

It's time travel. You can bet, everything is going to be fixed in the end. Ishibumi said we don't need to read it to continue reading the main series so yeah, there'll be nothing important as a consequence. The fact I care less about the kids then I do about Motohama and Matsuda doesn't help.

i was talking development wise.

that paragraph being minimal doesn't negate it's presence.

well then i agree to disagree. i happen to like fights that are more than glorified talent shows, regardless of how cool said talents

and once again you are too fixated on tension = death when that isn't the point. what i'm trying to get across is that if the gremory group is op, and we already know all the girls get a happy ending, what is the point of these death tease storylines? ishibumi is clever enough to come up with other ways of creating tension so why use the method that holds the least amount of weight? issei's rivalry with others, his setbacks, balancing his life as a demon and hiding it from society, growing his status in the demon world, working towards his goals in life; all of which has taken a back seat since the end of volume 12. once this arc is done, i expect to see more of that.

fair enough on the ex point.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

i was talking development wise.

that paragraph being minimal doesn't negate it's presence.

well then i agree to disagree. i happen to like fights that are more than glorified talent shows, regardless of how cool said talents

and once again you are too fixated on tension = death when that isn't the point. what i'm trying to get across is that if the gremory group is op, and we already know all the girls get a happy ending, what is the point of these death tease storylines? ishibumi is clever enough to come up with other ways of creating tension so why use the method that holds the least amount of weight? issei's rivalry with others, his setbacks, balancing his life as a demon and hiding it from society, growing his status in the demon world, working towards his goals in life; all of which has taken a back seat since the end of volume 12. once this arc is done, i expect to see more of that.

fair enough on the ex point.

Considering that he still develops from volume to volume I still don't see that as his peak.

On, I agree the death tease has been exhausted to the maximum and beyond. Like I said, the best fight in the series had no danger of death whatsoever. I seriously hope Ishi doesn't use that again. What I don't understand is how people think death is possible in this series when the only death of a "good guy" was Yaegaki who nobody gives a shit about. Maybe it's not your case but some people like Hk actually think of it as a possibility.

As much as I dislike the 4th arc as a whole, those plot points have been addressed about as much as in previous arcs. His rivalry with Saji and Sairaorg(to a lesser extent) was developed in v17 IIRC, he's training under Sun Wukong, made a pact with Le Fay and decided to take Ravel, Xenovia and Asia as his servants instead of just wondering, and he started to understand Vali a bit better. Heck the main plotline of v20 was him revealing the truth to his parents. As far as setbacks go I have four words for you: Longinus Smasher & Diabolos Dragon.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

Considering that he still develops from volume to volume I still don't see that as his peak.

On, I agree the death tease has been exhausted to the maximum and beyond. Like I said, the best fight in the series had no danger of death whatsoever. I seriously hope Ishi doesn't use that again. What I don't understand is how people think death is possible in this series when the only death of a "good guy" was Yaegaki who nobody gives a shit about. Maybe it's not your case but some people like Hk actually think of it as a possibility.

As much as I dislike the 4th arc as a whole, those plot points have been addressed about as much as in previous arcs. His rivalry with Saji and Sairaorg(to a lesser extent) was developed in v17 IIRC, he's training under Sun Wukong, made a pact with Le Fay and decided to take Ravel, Xenovia and Asia as his servants instead of just wondering, and he started to understand Vali a bit better. Heck the main plotline of v20 was him revealing the truth to his parents. As far as setbacks go I have four words for you: Longinus Smasher & Diabolos Dragon.

i call it a peak because that was the last time that issei substantially grew as a character. he's had moments after that but not as much.

on that i agree, to even entertain that possibility even without ishi's clarification would be ridiculous at this point in the story, maybe earlier around the first couple of volumes, but not now.

it depends on the volume; certain volumes did address these things as much as the past arcs, but others definitely wained. i guess i just want it to be a consistant theme across the next arc at this point.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

i call it a peak because that was the last time that issei substantially grew as a character. he's had moments after that but not as much.

on that i agree, to even entertain that possibility even without ishi's clarification would be ridiculous at this point in the story, maybe earlier around the first couple of volumes, but not now.

it depends on the volume; certain volumes did address these things as much as the past arcs, but others definitely wained. i guess i just want it to be a consistant theme across the next arc at this point.

Ise never substantially grew as a character in one go like suddenly deciding in what path to take. His development was mostly gradual. If anything v20 was the one he grew the most aside from 10.

I think what makes the difference so big is that this arc was huge. The third arc felt more like a solid arc because it was only 4 (I consider 7 to be more of a standalone than part of that arc) volumes long. This one had 6. If we only consider the volumes in which they addressed those points, it's about the same as the third arc.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

Ise never substantially grew as a character in one go like suddenly deciding in what path to take. His development was mostly gradual. If anything v20 was the one he grew the most aside from 10.

I think what makes the difference so big is that this arc was huge. The third arc felt more like a solid arc because it was only 4 (I consider 7 to be more of a standalone than part of that arc) volumes long. This one had 6. If we only consider the volumes in which they addressed those points, it's about the same as the third arc.

in one volume? you're correct. 10-12? nah. you're right that 20 does come close to that according to spoilers but as you also pointed out the arc as a whole had more content(i'd say to the point of having excess fat).

it's actually 7 or 6 and 1/2 if you count volume 15.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

in one volume? you're correct. 10-12? nah. you're right that 20 does come close to that according to spoilers but as you also pointed out the arc as a whole had more content(i'd say to the point of having excess fat).

it's actually 7 or 6 and 1/2 if you count volume 15.

11-12 had no development to his character whatsoever. He got a new body, but that's it. His character was exctly the same as he was in the end of v10. Those two volumes had more development for the ORC and Ddraig. Ophis too, kinda.

I agree that it has excess fat. I hope we get only short arcs from now on.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

11-12 had no development to his character whatsoever. He got a new body, but that's it. His character was exctly the same as he was in the end of v10. Those two volumes had more development for the ORC and Ddraig. Ophis too, kinda.

I agree that it has excess fat. I hope we get only short arcs from now on.

i disagree, volume 11 was the first time he outright lost a military conflict/battle at the hands of cao cao, and was forced to overcome it to ensure the survival of his comrads. volume 12 he was able to see just how much he mattered to everyone albeit posthumously, and resorted to using smarts to secure victory against cao cao instead of relying on just his power.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

i disagree, volume 11 was the first time he outright lost a military conflict/battle at the hands of cao cao, and was forced to overcome it to ensure the survival of his comrads. volume 12 he was able to see just how much he mattered to everyone albeit posthumously, and resorted to using smarts to secure victory against cao cao instead of relying on just his power.

Volume 2 said hi to both arguments. Getting his ass kicked by a pawn and later Rizer, as well as using creativity to win.

I don't think he was aware of how everyone felt about his death aside from being really sad, which is just common sense, heck, his return was comic relief. Nobody realised it was him until he said Oppai.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

Volume 2 said hi to both arguments.

-_-

the fight with riser isn't a military conflict in any sense of the word, the objective of the fight(protect ophis's power) was failed. neither did he get the full scope of just how empty gremory group would be without him. issei's subconscious specifically guides them subconsciously during the underworld invasion, so it's entirely fair that he aware of how fucked up the gang was.

though i concede the point about him using smarts

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

-_-

the fight with riser isn't a military conflict with any sense of the word, the objective of the fight(protect ophis's power) was failed. neither did he get the full scope of just how empty gremory group would be without him. issei's subconscious specifically guides them subconsciously during the underworld invasion, so it's entirely fair that he aware of how fucked up the gang was.

though i concede the point about him using smarts

You say it as if Ise gave a shit about the difference between those fights. lol If he lost against Rizer, Rias would have a 10.000 year long miserable life. To him that's probably worse than the end of the world by miles. And he did lose the fight before coming back to win it, so yes, it's the same formula.

If it's the subconscious then he isn't aware of it. That's kind of what the subconscious is. '._.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah, agree about him not caring about the difference between the two fights. And yeah, I also think he'd care more about Rias' life being ruined than the end of the world. Actually, he'd probably think that Rias' life being ruined = the end of the world.

And he does seem to have remembered that he helped them through his Evil Pieces, like when he gave Ascalon to Kiba. He just doesn't know how miserable they were without him and how Rias and Akeno had gotten. He didn't see their condition. He was only told, later, that they were really sad and miserable when he was gone. He doesn't know how much they need him.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

You say it as if Ise gave a shit about the difference between those fights. lol If he lost against Rizer, Rias would have a 10.000 year long miserable life. To him that's probably worse than the end of the world by miles. And he did lose the fight before coming back to win it, so yes, it's the same formula.

If it's the subconscious then he isn't aware of it. That's kind of what the subconscious is. '._.

whether or not issei gives a shit about the difference is besides the point that there is a difference. similar formula, different context altogether.

then perhaps i used the wrong word lol.

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

And he does seem to have remembered that he helped them through his Evil Pieces, like when he gave Ascalon to Kiba. He just doesn't know how miserable they were without him and how Rias and Akeno had gotten. He didn't see their condition. He was only told, later, that they were really sad and miserable when he was gone. He doesn't know how much they need him.

i don't think the difference between a first hand and second hand account of what happened changes the fact that of some level, he does know how much they needed him in that scenario. if it was just a second hand account via being told about it, i'd agree. but the story indicated that he could feel it on some level.

[ukulelembo]

Finally some little info about EX:

- So another two kids that appears are named "Shirayuki" (白雪) and "Kuroibara" (黒茨). Unfortunately I have no confirmed info who their mothers are, but I think that it's not so hard to guess.

- Apparently Kiba and Asia became Father-Mother figures for Issei's children.

- Bad news is that apparently some characters in future are already dead.

- Title of second chapter is "Invaders from another world".

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

Finally some little info about EX:

- So another two kids that appears are named "Shirayuki" (白雪) and "Kuroibara" (黒茨). Unfortunately I have no confirmed info who their mothers are, but I think that it's not so hard to guess.

- Apparently Kiba and Asia became Father-Mother figures for Issei's children.

- Bad news is that apparently same characters in future are already dead.

- Title of second chapter is "Invaders from another world".

Obviously they are Cao Cao and Mil-tan's children. :P

I understand Asia being looked up like that, but Kiba? What the hell?

Wow, some characters are dead in the future in a time travel-type story. That's so sad and would never be fixed by the end because Time Travel is not a Deus Ex Machina at all.

Aaaaaand now I'm thinking about Invader Zim and D×D characters meeting. LOL that'd be hilarious.

[Royalknightftw]

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

Finally some little info about EX:

- So another two kids that appears are named "Shirayuki" (白雪) and "Kuroibara" (黒茨). Unfortunately I have no confirmed info who their mothers are, but I think that it's not so hard to guess.

- Apparently Kiba and Asia became Father-Mother figures for Issei's children.

- Bad news is that apparently same characters in future are already dead.

- Title of second chapter is "Invaders from another world".

-Koneko's child confirmed

-I guess because both of them are blonde, but quite surprising Kiba has a father kind of attitude

- Even if there is one (and not really disappointed if there is none) my money is on Azazel

- So, another world has taken an action, eh??

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

whether or not issei gives a shit about the difference is besides the point that there is a difference. similar formula, different context altogether.

then perhaps i used the wrong word lol.

Except that if he doesn't give a shit about it, then to him and by consequence, his character, both situations were pretty much the same. He didn't develop after that because there was nothing to develop, he just did the same thing he did in a previous situation.

[Chichiryuushintei]

OK, I have a question about those thingies from EX. Apparently they're immune to magic, right? Then how in the fuck was Ross able to freeze it?

[Bigmac]

Maybe they are immune to magic but not the atmosphere around them so temperature could still affect them?

[DragonOsman]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

Except that if he doesn't give a shit about it, then to him and by consequence, his character, both situations were pretty much the same. He didn't develop after that because there was nothing to develop, he just did the same thing he did in a previous situation.

Exactly what I'm thinking.

By the way, is the line from the spoiler:

- Bad news is that apparently same characters in future are already dead.

Supposed to be as is or is the "same character" part a typo? If it's not a typo, I think it's saying that Kiba and Asia in the future have died. I hope it's wrong, though.

Originally Posted by Royalknightftw

-Koneko's child confirmed

I'm pretty sure it also pretty much confirms that Kuroka also had a kid with Ise. The one with the name "Kuroibara" is most likely Kuroka's because "Kuro" means "black" and "Shiro" (which is a part of "Shirayuki" I believe) means "white". White = Koneko/Shirone and Black = Kuroka. And I think Shirayuki is a girl. Shirayuki is probably a girls' name. I could be wrong, though.

Edit: Before I forget, yeah, I think Bigmac is probably right about the atmosphere being able to affect them. Even if magic can't affect them, Elemental Magic should still work.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by Bigmac

Maybe they are immune to magic but not the atmosphere around them so temperature could still affect them?

If that's the case then why didn't they just send Serafall who can obliterate a small country multiple times just by glowing and specialises in Ice Magic? Or Dulio, you know him? He's the guy that CAN CONTROL THE FUCKING ATMOSPHERE TO HIS WHIM!!!

@DragonOsman: The funny thing is, Shirayuki means Snow White. If it's a dude I'm gonna start to think Ise just likes to mess with his children, first Ichs, now this. lol